2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 394 times)


Speed Surplus

    How slow will you have to go to avoid being forced to the side?

     

    Somewhat related - when I ran 2:57, my first mile was 7:27 pace.  When I ran 3:02, my first mile was 7:33 pace.

     

    Going out at 7:10-7:20ish or even slower for the first mile is not going to wreck your race at all - quite to the contrary.


    OK, I checked the map from last time, and I am definitely overthinking this.

     

    It's only 0.5 miles total to the tunnel start. And probably less than 0.2 miles to the turnaround. I do remember it being crowded and having a few uneasy steps toward the side of the path, but it's really a short distance. It looks like a different path on the map here, but it's basically one path.

     

    I'm going to prioritize good footing, but I'll err on the side of slower rather than faster if it comes to that.

     

    5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

    JMac11


    I spilled the milk

      You definitely have the taper tantrums 

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

        This is great taper madness! SC, good luck. I definitely agree with what the others have said.  It is pancake flat in Christchurch which is great but means a decent drive when I need to do some hills.

         

        JMac - yes, I don’t consider that first one a marathon, just a jog. I guess I gave the game away that I’m hoping not to be one and done. With respect to improving from the first to the second, I’d be very very happy with the 16 minute improvement Mark had.

         

        Mikkey - it’s more about the facts than loyalty and the irony of saying someone sucks who is double digit minutes faster! The conversion discussion is an interesting one and speaks to the difficulty of the marathon.

        Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

        Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

        Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

        Marky_Mark_17


           

          I get your loyalty towards Marky,  but I remember his stubborn attitude when he was training for his first marathon and was adamant that his fast  “easy pace” was justified.

           

          Goal was sub-3, and I ran 2:57 off less than 50 miles per week.  Ran easy based on HR then, and I run easy based on HR now.  So yeah, you were wrong.

           

           Insanity is repeating the same process and expecting a different result. 

           

          Assuming all athletes are the same and respond to the same stimulus is also pretty silly.

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

          Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 21 August

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            SC you’re getting nervous.  You remind me of myself.  Just be the calm cool collected guy who isn’t in a rush to get to the turn around and you’ll be fine.  Much like the first turn at CIM where lots of people want to cut it hard I swing it wide (experience/darkwave advice) and don’t worry about the 3 seconds I’m losing.  On that dirt path I’d just take it easy and avoid falling. Everyone is going to have race day jitters and SOMEONE has to be the adult in the crowd thinking of others.  400m into a 42,000m race isn’t where you want to slip and fall. Save that for the last 400m where spectators can video it.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 54.9

            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

              SC: Overall I think your race plan looks good, but I do agree with the others that going out fast is not a good idea. I've done it and you really do pay for it dearly later in the race. As far as time, I think you're in shape for a sub 3:00. How does the weather forecast look?

               

              Steve: Nice job on slowing down the easy runs. I've definitely noticed that helps a lot; for recovery, for performance in your workouts, and for keeping injuries at bay.

               

              JMac:  Great week by you. I have to say, one thing that impresses me about your training is that you do your workouts over hilly terrain in Central Park (this past 3x2T on the coast excluded). Meanwhile, the rest of us are seeking out the flattest possible routes or even going to the track for workouts. That definitely pays off for you on race day, regardless of the course elevation profile.

               

              JT - things are definitely progressing. Any tune up races planned just to see how you fare in that setting, recognizing conditions will be awful?

               

              Not sure I will be able to find anything. There is a local 8 mile race in late July but we'll be on vacation at that time. Maybe I can find something in August or do a time trial on the track (the latter being more likely).

              2:52:16 (2018)

              Marky_Mark_17


                Mark she ran a 1.24 half this weekend at 59

                 

                No kidding?  She is a dead set legend in my books.  Was that at the Mt Half down your way?

                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                * Net downhill course

                Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

                Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 21 August

                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  Mark no it was at Selwyn. Mount joggers didn't have their usual Queens birthday race.

                  50+ PBs -  

                  5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                  10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                  Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                  " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                  Somewhere in between is about right "      

                   

                  JMac11


                  I spilled the milk

                    JT - very observant and thank you! The threshold stuff usually is on slightly rolling terrain, but I definitely try to get my MP work done all on the full hills of CP. I took a look at some possible races for you and you are right - you're pretty limited to just charity 5Ks, or a 9 miler in Norwalk on Aug 9.

                     

                    Steve - you better improve by more than that on this one!

                     

                    SC - now we're at a point where we will take weather updates!

                    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                     

                    Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                    zebano



                      OK, I checked the map from last time, and I am definitely overthinking this.

                       

                       

                      Yes you are but I figure that just means you care. Best of luck with the sub 3!  I was meaning to ask, what did you do to prepare specifically for the primarily downhill race?

                      1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)


                      Speed Surplus

                         

                        Yes you are but I figure that just means you care. Best of luck with the sub 3!  I was meaning to ask, what did you do to prepare specifically for the primarily downhill race?

                         

                        Nothing specifically, other than a 9-mile MP workout on the last part of the course. But I live in an area that's unavoidably hilly - just to get to the best running routes, I start with an 80 foot climb and then 150 foot descent over about half a mile. On the way back, the reverse. So I run some hills all the time.

                         

                        I've also run this marathon before and found the downhill to be an excellent grade for running fast without absorbing too much punishment. I will say that my quads were trashed harder than they were after the Eugene marathon (a very flat course), for example, but the grade is gentle enough that I don't expect it to be a problem during the race itself.

                         

                        "SC - now we're at a point where we will take weather updates"

                         

                        Looking pretty good. Temps are perfect and the wind is going the right direction, generally. I'd love to get a dry spell during the race itself, but I'm expecting that with all the rain leading up to Sunday, the trail will have puddles no matter what.

                        I'm thinking of going with a singlet and doing the "wear a crappy old long-sleeve T to stay warm until the very last second, and then discarding it" plan. I could also do a long sleeve synthetic shirt and then roll up the sleeves over the course of the run... 🤥

                        5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                        Mikkey


                        Elite Jogger


                          OK, I checked the map from last time, and I am definitely overthinking this.

                           

                          It's only 0.5 miles total to the tunnel start. And probably less than 0.2 miles to the turnaround. I do remember it being crowded and having a few uneasy steps toward the side of the path, but it's really a short distance. It looks like a different path on the map here, but it's basically one path.

                           

                          I'm going to prioritize good footing, but I'll err on the side of slower rather than faster if it comes to that.

                           

                          Yep, and with congestion at the start of most marathons it would be very hard to run the first half mile at faster than MP anyway.  I’ve lost count the number of times I’ve watched lunatics charging past me in the first mile like they’ve just robbed a bank. It’s not cool or clever.

                           

                          I checked out the website and I’m guessing the first 5k would be the slowest if you get the pacing right. Will you be wearing a headlamp for the tunnel? 

                          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


                          Speed Surplus

                             I checked out the website and I’m guessing the first 5k would be the slowest if you get the pacing right. Will you be wearing a headlamp for the tunnel? 

                             

                            Definitely wearing a headlamp! There will be others around me with them, so one could technically probably get away without, but imagine being alone in the middle of a 2-mile long tunnel without one 😲

                             

                            I'm actually going to be wearing a vest that holds my phone - and it can also accommodate an attached headlamp. That way I don't have to deal with putting my headlamp in a drop bag and handing it off after the tunnel. Last time I just threw it into a truck that was parked there - no bag - and hoped for the best. I did actually end up recovering it 😂

                            5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                            Mikkey


                            Elite Jogger

                               

                              Definitely wearing a headlamp! There will be others around me with them, so one could technically probably get away without, but imagine being alone in the middle of a 2-mile long tunnel without one 😲

                               

                              I'm actually going to be wearing a vest that holds my phone - and it can also accommodate an attached headlamp. That way I don't have to deal with putting my headlamp in a drop bag and handing it off after the tunnel. Last time I just threw it into a truck that was parked there - no bag - and hoped for the best. I did actually end up recovering it 😂

                               

                              Wow, a vest that holds a phone and a bag drop during the race!  

                              I never carry my phone during a marathon as it weighs about 6oz and would inevitably cost me a few seconds.    

                              I’d probably go for a cheap headlamp for under $10 and just toss it after the tunnel. That’s what I do with hats/gloves once I don’t need them anymore.

                              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


                              Speed Surplus

                                 

                                Wow, a vest that holds a phone and a bag drop during the race!  

                                I never carry my phone during a marathon as it weighs about 6oz and would inevitably cost me a few seconds.    

                                I’d probably go for a cheap headlamp for under $10 and just toss it after the tunnel. That’s what I do with hats/gloves once I don’t need them anymore.

                                 

                                I carried a phone in my hand that attached to headphones via an actual cord while running 1:28 for a half marathon 😆 I'm built different

                                 

                                In all seriousness, phone is non-negotiable. I use it for music and will need it for post-race communication with my Transport Team™ (wife) who is picking me up and taking me back to the start afterward. (There are no shuttles going back to the start for reasons I can't fathom.)

                                6 oz won't make much of a difference seeing as I'm a 6'1", 173 pound rhino

                                5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12