2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 394 times)

JMac11


I spilled the milk

    Darkwave - if you're lurking, any tips for me regarding Duluth/Grandma's in general? I'll take advice from anyone else as well that's run it, but I'm not sure besides her that anyone has.

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

    zebano


      Darkwave - if you're lurking, any tips for me regarding Duluth/Grandma's in general? I'll take advice from anyone else as well that's run it, but I'm not sure besides her that anyone has.

       

      I've run it twice but I've not had a successful marathon (ever) so ... take from this what you will

       

      • lemondrop hill is actually really small and gradual, it's just late in the race
      • there are far more rolling hills than I expected early in the race. The back half is near flat if my memory isn't playing tricks on me
      • when the college kids offer you beer as you get into town, don't accept. It will mess up your stomach. The Jack and coke despite being named after a famous running coach is arguably worse for your stomach.
      • When you turn left from "downtown" to head out onto the pier, you have far more race left then you think you do. It will double back via an S-curve and you can hear the finish the whole way. 
        • The early miles will occasionally have packs of spectators but given that it's a road alongside Lake Superior, there just isn't much access for them.
        • I highly recommend Pizza Luce!

      Good luck! May the other weather gods smile upon your marathon attempt.

      1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

        Adding onto Zebano's.

         

        • There is no shelter at the start - plan accordingly if it's bad weather.
        • The course is very gently winding - many people get lulled into following the yellow line down the road instead of following the tangents.  Be wary of this if you end up running with a pack.
        • The mile markers are very well marked with balloons and hard to miss.
        • The weather forecast changes constantly up there - I've never run a Grandma's where the weather on race day matched the forecast the day before.
        • Even if it's a hot day, it may be chilly in Two Harbours - err on the side of throwaway clothing even if you don't think you need it.
        • The weather in Duluth varies depending on how close you are to the lake.  The course is right along the lake, which means the temperature on the race course may be considerably cooler than elsewhere in Duluth.
        • As Zebano noted, Lemondrop hill is not bad.  It looks AWFUL when you're approaching it.  Trust me, it's not bad.
        • There is another, un-named hill about a mile later, by the SuperFoods, when you make a left and then a right.  Nobody ever talks about that one, but I think it's worse - it's a bit steeper than Lemondrop (but shorter - only about 150m).  It's not bad if you know it's coming; it sucks when it surprises you for the first time.  After that second hill, you have a nice gentle drop into downtown Duluth.
        • You'll run 25 miles more or less straight, and then drop down into the harbor area for the last mile.    After you cross the bridge and drop down, you'll hit four turns before the finish - first two left, and second two right.  Know that each of those turns marks approximately 400m, and so you can count down the turns as if they were laps on the track - 1600 to go, 1200 to go, 800 to go, 400 to go.  I recommend doing this - otherwise that last mile+ of the course is really rough.
        • Approaching the finish, there are multiple arches of balloons.  Those are not the finish.  The finish is the metal arch/walkway thing just past the balloons.
        • There is one Chipotle in Duluth, and it's at the Miller Hill Mall.  There's a Target there also.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        HermosaBoy


          Adding onto Zebano's.

           

          • There is another, un-named hill about a mile later, by the SuperFoods, when you make a left and then a right.  Nobody ever talks about that one, but I think it's worse - it's a bit steeper than Lemondrop (but shorter - only about 150m).  It's not bad if you know it's coming; it sucks when it surprises you for the first time.  After that second hill, you have a nice gentle drop into downtown Duluth.

           

          We've always called that Super Market hill and it is annoying!!!

           

          You forget about it until you make the turn and then it's Ah, hell no!!!

           

          I have run the half and the full many times and I think you and Zebano really nailed it.

          And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

           

          Rob

          JMac11


          I spilled the milk

            Thank you both! I love the pizza suggestion - it is my go to lunch the day before the race, just like DW and her Chipotle. I just saved it in Google Maps.

             

            The Lemon Drop hill thing I've heard before, sounds like they actually flattened the overpass so that's why it's not as bad?

             

            Also on the weather, very interesting. I won't be stressing too much about the weather because I knew coming into this race it was highly unlikely to be ideal. I'll start checking more though come Monday. Either way though, I'm rooting hard for a nice southeastern wind: perfect for keeping you cool but not aiding/hurting you at all. 

             

            The yellow line thing is interesting too. I've noticed it in almost every race I've run and point it out in the race reports. It's especially bad here in Central Park when races use the running lane AND the bike lane. People just instinctually stay in the running lane! I sometimes wonder how people who are relatively fast still don't understand tangents. I will be hugging the edge of the road unless it's a bad westerly wind, then I'll just have to decide with each one.

             

            Any good spots to go after the race for a beer? I'll be with the wife and kid but my favorite post marathon meal is usually a burger and a beer (or three). Also any cool places to just generally hang out after the race would be appreciated!

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Adding onto Zebano's.

               

              • There is no shelter at the start - plan accordingly if it's bad weather.
              • The course is very gently winding - many people get lulled into following the yellow line down the road instead of following the tangents.  Be wary of this if you end up running with a pack.
              • The mile markers are very well marked with balloons and hard to miss.
              • The weather forecast changes constantly up there - I've never run a Grandma's where the weather on race day matched the forecast the day before.
              • Even if it's a hot day, it may be chilly in Two Harbours - err on the side of throwaway clothing even if you don't think you need it.
              • The weather in Duluth varies depending on how close you are to the lake.  The course is right along the lake, which means the temperature on the race course may be considerably cooler than elsewhere in Duluth.
              • As Zebano noted, Lemondrop hill is not bad.  It looks AWFUL when you're approaching it.  Trust me, it's not bad.
              • There is another, un-named hill about a mile later, by the SuperFoods, when you make a left and then a right.  Nobody ever talks about that one, but I think it's worse - it's a bit steeper than Lemondrop (but shorter - only about 150m).  It's not bad if you know it's coming; it sucks when it surprises you for the first time.  After that second hill, you have a nice gentle drop into downtown Duluth.
              • You'll run 25 miles more or less straight, and then drop down into the harbor area for the last mile.    After you cross the bridge and drop down, you'll hit four turns before the finish - first two left, and second two right.  Know that each of those turns marks approximately 400m, and so you can count down the turns as if they were laps on the track - 1600 to go, 1200 to go, 800 to go, 400 to go.  I recommend doing this - otherwise that last mile+ of the course is really rough.
              • Approaching the finish, there are multiple arches of balloons.  Those are not the finish.  The finish is the metal arch/walkway thing just past the balloons.
              • There is one Chipotle in Duluth, and it's at the Miller Hill Mall.  There's a Target there also.

               

              bold and underline for importance. Chipotle is marathon super food. A second is "something very similar to what Chipotle makes."

              JMac when races here use running paths they're not closed to the public. I'm sure it's a combination of habit and focusing on the race pace instead of the course.

               

              https://duluthtapexchange.com/

              Check this place out. I've never been there BUT I'm sure it has something you'll enjoy. Maybe hit up the beer thread.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 54.9

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                https://www.nike.com/t/zoomx-vaporfly-next-2-mens-road-racing-shoes-glWqfm/CU4111-102

                 

                the cheater shoes are on sale. $205.

                 

                https://www.nike.com/t/zoomx-vaporfly-next-2-mens-road-racing-shoes-glWqfm/CU4111-700

                $185 version.

                 

                Prices in USD and sized using a Freedom Based unit.

                 

                EDIT: Woman's version down to $191.

                 

                https://www.nike.com/t/zoomx-vaporfly-next-2-womens-road-racing-shoes-Dbqd8h/CU4123-700

                I do really like the purple and orange one.

                 

                EDIT #2: Plane tickets for Boston 2023 have been purchased. I'll be arriving Saturday and leaving a few days later in case anyone wants to socialize.

                 

                JMac if you ever fly to Las Vegas and want to play golf in summer just remember there is a reason the tee times around 11am to 3 pm are open.

                https://news.yahoo.com/millions-in-southwest-bracing-for-dangerous-and-deadly-heatwave-204130944.html

                At least it is a "dry heat" and nothing like the 68% humidity y'all have.

                 

                I'm planning a long run for Friday. This should be perfect timing.

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 54.9

                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07


                Speed Surplus

                  https://www.nike.com/t/zoomx-vaporfly-next-2-mens-road-racing-shoes-glWqfm/CU4111-102

                   

                  the cheater shoes are on sale. $205.

                   

                  https://www.nike.com/t/zoomx-vaporfly-next-2-mens-road-racing-shoes-glWqfm/CU4111-700

                  $185 version.

                   

                  Prices in USD and sized using a Freedom Based unit.

                   

                  EDIT: Woman's version down to $191.

                   

                  https://www.nike.com/t/zoomx-vaporfly-next-2-womens-road-racing-shoes-Dbqd8h/CU4123-700

                  I do really like the purple and orange one.

                   

                  Ooh, damn that's tempting. But I already blew my running gear budget this year on a new watch. Hope the Next% I have with 65 miles on them are still fresh enough to give good pop. I'm sure they'll be leaps and bounds better than the beat-ass Pegasus 34 I wore last time (visible in the pic I posted the other day)

                  Side note - I ended up getting two pairs of the Air Zoom Tempo Next% and I love them, but they wear out SUPER quick. One pair has 330 miles and the other about 300 and I've almost worn through on the edge of the sole enough to pop the air bubble. In fact, I've added a little shoe goo to try and extend the life - I'm sure I would have popped the air by now without it.

                  5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                  OMR


                    Jmac:  Regarding Grandmas, if you are staying anywhere near the finish line, I would recommend taking the train to the start rather than the buses.  Warm, dry, lots of leg room in some of the cars (one year I pretty much had an entire train car all to myself).  And bathrooms.  If I remember correctly, you get dropped off roughly 25-30 minutes ahead of start time.  I found it to be pretty ideal...brought my breakfast with me and ate on the train.

                    JMac11


                    I spilled the milk

                      Thanks OMR! I read it's first come first serve, and earlier than the bus, which made me nervous. Sounds like it's nothing to worry about?

                       

                      RP - I picked up another pair about an hour before you posted that. Definitely a good sale!

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                        Thanks OMR! I read it's first come first serve, and earlier than the bus, which made me nervous. Sounds like it's nothing to worry about?

                         

                        If you don't make it on the train, you can just board a bus, so it's not that high stakes.  I have never taken the train - everyone who has taken the train that I know has raved about it.  But I'm told that you do need to show up early.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        JMac11


                        I spilled the milk

                          Best of luck to SC this weekend!!! We could use a sub 3 on this board, we don't have one yet this year!

                           

                          Random side note: to prove how useless 10 day forecasts are I wanted to see how much my race changes. It already has changed 8 degrees from the 10 day to 9 day forecast . Really just basically an amazing marketing gimmick at this point. I'll report what it actually looks like on Monday.

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                          Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                          OMR


                            Thanks OMR! I read it's first come first serve, and earlier than the bus, which made me nervous. Sounds like it's nothing to worry about?

                             

                            It is first come first serve, but as Dwave indicated, buses load in the same area, so if you happen to miss it, you'll still have the bus option.  The train does leave a bit early, because it doesn't travel very fast, but since I typically wake up ridiculously early for big races, it really didn't matter to me.  And I would try to take a nap on the train.  As someone who prefers quiet most of the time, I just found it extremely relaxing.  And no diesel smell.  FYI, there are a couple of cars with lower and upper level seating; those were extremely cramped and crowded when I ran.  Just keep moving toward the back of the train.  Also, congrats on the half a while back.  Impressive.

                             

                            SC:  Good luck!

                             

                            Hey to the rest of you.  I'm not training for a full right now -- just trying to get back into things after a very stressful semester and some time off from running -- but I'm eyeing up a 25K trail run in September as motivation.  So...lurking, but not posting.

                            Ian5


                              SC-Good luck for the weekend,hope it goes well.

                              5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                                SC: Hope everything goes great this weekend for you!

                                 

                                OMR: Great to see you running again!

                                2:52:16 (2018)