2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 381 times)

Mikkey


Elite Jogger

    Clever - Break a leg! 👍  (not literally of course)

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      Just adding on:  good luck SC!!!!

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.


      Speed Surplus

        Thanks for all the well-wishes!

         

        I'm just hoping everything lines up for me to give it a good, strong effort. Feeling creaky in spots (I blame the taper) but hoping I'll feel strong when I toe the line 😤

        5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

        mmerkle


          Race Report for anyone interested:

           

          This was a 2.85 mile cross country/trail race called the Hashawha 3 mile XC Race. Very low-key local race in Westminster Maryland. This course had some steep and technical hills. The open course record is 18:00 for context.

           

          I was told the 2nd mile was really tough with hills, so I went out very conservative (which I literally never do). I stayed with the lead pack in about 7th or 8th place for about the first mile, which we went through in a slow 6:30. I felt fine and the first couple hills didn't affect me.

           

          Then we go over a couple of steep hills, and I passed a couple people. The trail then became single file and both the up hills and downhills got intense. Some downhills were helpful but mostly they were technical and steep. However, my recent hill work paid off, because I kept passing people during or after steep hills. I went through mile 2 in a ridiculously slow 7:30.

           

          At some point after mile 2, I had no one left in sight to pass, and so I figured the next few people must be a good bit ahead. I tried to get them within sight and picked it up a bit. Then hit a fork and wasn't sure whether to keep straight or turn left so I paused with uncertainty and turned around to look back. Luckily the person behind me said to keep going straight, so that was some lost time there. Probably about 10 seconds I would guess.

           

          It turns out there was no one in front of me, I was leading and had no idea. The last roughly 100 meters was on a moderately steep downhill, and so I kicked it in pretty hard and finished in 19:30. I found out that I won only after talking to people at the finish.

           

          I haven't worn spikes in forever and now two days later my calves still hurt lol.

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

            mmerkle - Nice race and win.  What a weird experience, not knowing you were winning until afterwards.

             

            SC - Good luck.  Hope you get down to business before the obsessing gets too much.

             

            me - Good solid week with a good hill session.  I learned my lesson from previous hilly runs and kept my climbs about the same pace but made sure I kept it easy on the downhills and I've pulled up nicely, not too sore.

             

            Weekly for period: From: 06/06/2022 To 06/12/2022

            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
            in ft
            06/06 Warm up 0.33 0.54 00:03:10 09:36 05:52 0
            06/06 Easy pace 8.78 14.13 01:11:49 08:11 05:05 62
            06/06 Strides 0.75 1.21 00:05:43 07:37 04:43 0
            06/08 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:03 09:15 05:45 0
            06/08 15km incl. 3 x (7 mins @ 4:25/km, 3 mins easy) 9.35 15.05 01:11:54 07:41 04:47 36
            06/09 Recovery 5.54 8.92 00:48:01 08:40 05:23 36
            06/10 Warm up 0.35 0.56 00:03:10 09:03 05:39 0
            06/10 Easy pace 6.26 10.07 00:50:54 08:08 05:03 33
            06/10 Strides 0.75 1.20 00:05:50 07:47 04:52 0
            06/11 Warm up 0.39 0.62 00:03:36 09:14 05:48 33
            06/11 Summit Road Climbing 16.27 26.17 02:17:21 08:27 05:15 1798
            06/12 Recovery 5.05 8.12 00:45:12 08:57 05:34 33

            Total distance: 54.15mi

            Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

            Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

            Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

            Ian5


              I had a decent week,good 14m run in midweek again,with a local 10k to end the week,a few 180° turns means it's not the fastest but its 2 miles from the house.

              40:47 official shows I've still got lots of work to do to get in to proper shape,but a bit faster conversion than my 5k of 2 weeks ago so heading the right way.

              Going to increase the mileage now as that's 4 weeks around 40m

              Weekly for period: From: 06/06/2022 To 06/12/2022

              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
              in ft
              06/06 Afternoon Run 7.06 11.36 01:00:31 08:34 05:20 315
              06/07 Afternoon Run 13.86 22.30 01:59:31 08:37 05:22 666
              06/09 Afternoon Run 7.04 11.33 01:00:11 08:33 05:19 315
              06/10 Afternoon Run 7.04 11.32 01:00:02 08:32 05:18 315
              06/12 Morning Workout 1.49 2.40 00:34:38 23:15 14:26 0
              06/12 Port Sunlight 10k 6.13 9.86 00:40:32 06:37 04:07 164

              Total distance: 42.62mi

              5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

              mmerkle


                Week 6/6 - 6/12:

                 

                Monday:                                                               miles:      duration:      pace (cumulative):

                Easy run                                                                6              48:22             8:04

                 

                Tuesday:

                2 mile warm up and cool down                             7              54:04              7:44

                12 X 200 fast / 200 jog on track

                (+ extra 27 meters) 20:27

                 

                Wednesday:

                Easy run                                                               6              47:18              7:53

                 

                Thursday:

                Hashawha XC race +

                warm up and cool down                                       4.85         37:30              7:44

                 

                Friday: OFF                                                         ------         -------               ------

                 

                Saturday:

                Easy 7 on treadmill                                               7             1:00:00            8:35

                 

                Sunday:

                1 mile warm up and cool down,

                5k tempo on the track in 18:24,

                even splits followed by a

                light kick  (legs still a bit sore)                               5.1          35:00               6:52

                 

                Total: 35.9 miles, 4:42:14


                Speed Surplus

                  Welp! That sucked. Had about 17 miles of a decent race, but ended up walking in the last 5 miles or so. Couldn't move the legs.

                   

                  May type a longer report later, but the collection of minor injuries I've been nursing decided to form into an injury Voltron in this race. I felt good at the start, but my right hip and left knee in particular were starting to bother me within 5 miles, which is really unusual for a marathon. I wonder if the trail surface had anything to do with it - I was trying to run the tangents, but maybe I would have been better served staying to one side and not crossing the uneven surface so many times.

                   

                  By the halfway point, I was hurting BAD, physically. It was worse than any other marathon I've run, except for maybe the last 30 minutes of my first one which was a total death march. But I was aerobically fine and on pace for in the ballpark of 3:00, so I just kept trying to tough it out. Sometimes something that's flaring up will get numb and I can at least race through it. I was hoping that would happen.

                   

                  I was suffering and slowing to 7:30-8:00 pace from 17-20 and doing the math on my BQ chances if I could keep up 8:00 pace. But soon I couldn't even manage that. Legs were just cooked and I finally decided that I would probably be making things worse AND not posting a good time anyway, so I opted to walk. I did try starting up a shuffle a few more times to get it over with, but each time my body reminded me that it wasn't having it.

                   

                  I would have just dropped, but I didn't want to sit on the trail for hours waiting for a sweeper. So a lovely long walk to the finish it was.

                   

                  If you check out the result on Strava, you can ignore the splits for the first 5 miles. I think the first 1-2 actually may be accurate-ish (7:30 range) but coming out of the tunnel, my GPS gave me 5:40 and 5:30 back to back 😂, followed by 8Tight lippedx (double 😂😂). I think the first accurate splits started coming in around mile 6, and it had me steady at around 7:00, which felt right. Edit: It says I ran a 45 second 400 and a 3:44 mile in there somewhere, so I'm going to choose to believe that 😎

                  5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    . I wonder if the trail surface had anything to do with it - I was trying to run the tangents, but maybe I would have been better served staying to one side and not crossing the uneven surface so many times.

                     

                    Y'know, I read some of the reviews of that race, and they referenced the camber of the trail.    So perhaps that contributed?

                     

                    I'm sorry about the race - it's never fun to invest a training cycle and have it go to hell.  But congratulations on the mile and 400m PRs!

                     

                    MMerkle - good to see you back here, and congratulations on the win!  May your calves heal soon.

                     

                    Steve - good week and good strategy for the hills!

                     

                    Ian- good to see that things are trending the right way!

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                      My week:

                       

                      53 miles running, 3 hours pool-running, and ~1500 yards swimming.

                      M: 90 minutes pool-running and yoga.
                      T: 10 miles, including 8 Iwo Jima hill repeats (between 2:00 and 2:30 uphill, 90 second jog, 45-50 second downhill stride, and 60 second jog). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                      W: 6.5 miles (10:04), upper body weights/core, and 3.5 miles (9:33).
                      Th: 90 minutes pool-running and yoga
                      F: 10 miles, with 2x2K in 9:02 and 8:52 (2:44 recovery between the two), and then six 30 second hard hill repeats with full recovery. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                      Sa: 8.5 miles (10:10), drills/strides, and upper body weights/core.
                      Su: 14.5 miles, including a relaxed fartlek of 9x4 minutes moderate, 3 minutes jog. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.

                       

                      Things are starting to improve - by the end of the week, my heart rate had dropped into the 140s when jogging at easy effort.  As compared to two weeks ago, when my heart rate was in the 160s for that same pace.  (To give context, 160s is generally my marathon pace heart rate).   And I just feel better.

                       

                      This week was intentionally light on mileage, and I kept the workouts low key and focused on power and form.

                       

                      I also cancelled my flights to Minneapolis, so it's official that I'm skipping Grandma's this year.  I'm sorry to miss the opportunity to cheer on JMac and DLS  as they finish their marathons, but I really can't justify the cost of that trip when I'm not in any shape to race the half.

                       

                      I was pleasantly surprised to get a full refund when I cancelled my flights (I didn't book refundable flights).  After I booked the flight, they changed the departure times for both flights, so I guess that made it refundable.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      JMac11


                      I spilled the milk

                        SC - that sounds really rough. Any chance it was just the downhill nature of the course? I feel like that puts such a beating on your body that maybe some injuries really started to flair up. I respect getting to the finish. With that level of pain and that many miles to go, I think most of us would have just waited for the sweeper. Either way, when a marathon doesn't go to plan even though training went well, it's always so hard to figure out exactly what caused it.

                         

                        DW - it's too bad we can't meet up. We've had too many missed connections, as every weekend you seem to come to NYC to race, I'm out of town or have something else going on. Now this! Either way, for the improvement, is it because you're now taking something with the menopause diagnosis, or is this just continued improvement?

                         

                        mmerkle - glad to see you post a weekly, it will be good for you to stick around on a consistent basis so we can help with the training!

                         

                        Ian - nice week

                         

                         

                        My taper, like all tapers, feels like crap. During my easy runs, my legs feel totally trashed, way worse than they do during my big weeks with tough workouts. I have absolutely zero concern because this happens every taper, but has anyone read a definitive reason why this happens to so many people? I've heard a lot of nice sounding theories, but not sure any of them are backed by science or just sound like the truth. Anyway, like I said, I know I always feel like this and usually don't start feeling good until 3 days prior.

                         

                        Weather-wise, it's been relatively stable since I started really checking 7 days in advance, but just a few degrees up/down each day. Let's call it low 60s for most of the race, partly cloudy. Wind is out of the east, which is a tailwind. In 45 degree weather, that is an amazing wind direction. When it's in the low 60s, I think tailwinds, although not as bad as headwinds, are a net negative, as they completely remove the evaporative effect of the wind. In hot races, I think you want a steady crosswind. Has no impact on your pacing, but keeps you cool.

                         

                        So let's call it B weather? I feel like most people would call it C weather for a marathon specifically, but I'm doing a decent job heat acclimating and I don't think it'll impact me more than a few seconds per mile. Going into the race, that's what I expected, and I can't complain at all (unless it turns worse). At those temps, a PR-attempt is definitely in order. But as darkwave has pointed out and I've read elsewhere, the weather forecasts really bounce around so I'll make a decision on pacing as we get closer. Right now, Friday and Sunday look very warm, so either I'm going to get relatively lucky or one of those weather days will move to Saturday.

                         

                        Weekly for period: From: 06/06/2022 To 06/12/2022

                        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                        in ft
                        06/06 Afternoon Run 10.46 16.83 01:17:35 07:25 04:37 410
                        06/07 4E + 6@T/M (5:49) + 2E 12.01 19.32 01:21:18 06:46 04:12 361
                        06/09 More heat acclimation 8.32 13.38 01:02:07 07:28 04:39 331
                        06/10 Evening Run 8.22 13.22 01:04:43 07:52 04:54 285
                        06/11 Afternoon Run 12.80 20.59 01:32:35 07:14 04:30 279
                        06/12 That time of the taper where every run feels like you raced the day before 😩 8.49 13.66 01:04:22 07:35 04:43 289

                        Total distance: 60.29mi

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)


                        Speed Surplus

                          SC - that sounds really rough. Any chance it was just the downhill nature of the course? I feel like that puts such a beating on your body that maybe some injuries really started to flair up. I respect getting to the finish. With that level of pain and that many miles to go, I think most of us would have just waited for the sweeper. Either way, when a marathon doesn't go to plan even though training went well, it's always so hard to figure out exactly what caused it.

                           

                           

                           

                          I think the downhill and the uneven trail contributed for sure, which is a bit weird since I didn't have this issue last time on the same course.

                           

                          That said, my right hip in particular was creaky before the race. (So was my left calf, but it never bothered me yesterday). I did a fairly extreme taper this week hoping it would calm down fully, but it didn't. I bet that the hip being off + the trail altered my gait enough that the other little injuries (outside of left knee, most notably) flared up as well. Might be looking into a flat, paved marathon for my next attempt!

                           

                          I also wonder if the Vaporflies exacerbated the uneven trail impact, compared to the Pegasus I wore last time. Although plenty of folks were wearing the 'flies and seemed to do OK.

                           

                          RE: Weather for your race. Low 60s sounds hot to me, but I'm used to low 50s. With your acclimation, that sounds like a reasonably decent forecast!

                          5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                            sc  I was wondering about those 5:30 miles until I reminded myself about your tunnel. Sucks about the overall result. Walking it in was smart, and isn't ever enjoyable. Enjoy the rest/recovery and don't back down from a BQ PR. You did some good training this year so far and it would be a shame for all of it to go to waste....even though you have kids and a family requiring time away from running.

                             

                            JMac Looks like 50-60F with 60% humidity. If you get some 20 mph gusts your tailwind will feel like a cooling breeze. The course might be slightly damp with the flood warning they're having today. It's just a constant eastern wind of 14 mph. Totally something I could run in due to training. Just don't chicken out and back down when it starts to hurt. Checkers or Wreckers.

                             

                            Me: I did a trail run on Friday instead of going to work. I WANTED to do another hill run Saturday, but couldn't get out of bed in time and then "dad life" took over so I just had to get a run in to get a run in. Winds kicked up around 1pm and ended this morning. So much fun doing Sunday's run when someone says "Anyone know the 9-10 mile loop" and I was only thinking of doing 5-6. "sure I know it. well I know enough of the area to make it up." It turns out we did an out and back not originally on the course. At least everyone finished with good spirits, and late for their breakfast gathering.

                            Oh and a deer popped out of the bushes on my Thursday run and I'm 90% sure we were BOTH shocked to see the other there.

                             

                            61.9 miles running for the week.

                             

                            Weekly for period: From: 06/06/2022 To 06/12/2022

                            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                            in ft
                            06/06 That time it was exactly what I needed to hear. 7.25 11.67 00:59:21 08:11 05:05 390
                            06/07 That time it was more exhausting than it looked. 4.37 7.04 00:37:55 08:41 05:23 190
                            06/08 Use vacation vs show up and do nothing 1.00 1.61 00:25:01 25:01 15:32 13
                            06/08 That time it was an amalgamation of my running. 6.55 10.54 00:59:41 09:07 05:40 1010
                            06/08 Walk with popsicle vs bike ride 1.15 1.86 00:31:05 27:02 16:43 26
                            06/09 Nothing to talk about vs No one to talk to 1.05 1.69 00:25:01 23:50 14:48 23
                            06/09 That time it smells like cocaine. 5.43 8.74 00:57:20 10:34 06:34 1224
                            06/10 The time you just have to say it out loud to make it all worth it. 24.68 39.70 05:18:34 12:54 08:01 4990
                            06/11 That time it’s going to be a lazy Saturday. 2.33 3.74 00:20:28 08:47 05:28 46
                            06/12 That time I went twice as far as I wanted because someone mentioned double digit possibilities. 11.33 18.23 01:35:24 08:25 05:14 745

                            Total distance: 65.14mi

                            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                            VDOT 54.9

                            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                            JMac11


                            I spilled the milk

                              SC - that makes sense on all of your points. You definitely need a paved marathon. Have you heard of California International Marathon? I hear it's pretty good for running PRs.

                               

                              RP - I wish they started the race at 6:00 right after sunrise so I could get a 50 start temp. Seems kind of silly they haven't either a) moved the race earlier in the year or b) started even earlier in the morning. 7:45 when the sun rises at 5:15 is not great. Not like that near dark start for CIM: that was great! That Friday run was super impressive. Weekday long runs are something special.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                 

                                 

                                RP - I wish they started the race at 6:00 right after sunrise so I could get a 50 start temp. Seems kind of silly they haven't either a) moved the race earlier in the year or b) started even earlier in the morning. 7:45 when the sun rises at 5:15 is not great. Not like that near dark start for CIM: that was great! That Friday run was super impressive. Weekday long runs are something special.

                                 

                                They don't start it any earlier because they have to get the half-marathon out of the way first.  I see that they are now starting the half-marathon at 6:00 am, so that's 1:45 between the start of the two races - that's likely to ensure that the marathon winners aren't dodging walking half-marathoners (it used to be only 90 minutes between the start of the two races, with the half going off at 6:15).

                                 

                                (edit: they also have to make room for the wheelchair marathon racers, who will be much faster than the marathon runners)

                                 

                                The half marathon starts at 13.1 of the marathon, so they have to start it, get every single runner across the start line, and then clean up that whole area before the marathoners come through.  When you get to the half-way point, you'll see a TON of portajohns on the side of the road - they were all for the half-marathon start.

                                 

                                BTW, remember that the temperature on the course will likely be colder than the reported temperature in Duluth.  Especially if you have a wind from the east, which will blow cold air off of the lake.

                                 

                                RP - that is some crazy elevation gain on Friday.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.