2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 470 times)

ccoakley


    I think I'm ready to show my face here again.  I finally feel like I'm back to pre-covid energy levels and am now just chipping away at regaining 2 months of lost fitness.  I made it back to double digits today and that was a huge confidence boost.

     

    I've been in CA this week visiting the inlaws and tomorrow we travel to OR for 2 weeks to visit my parents.  Last year my 2 weeks in OR were my highest mileage weeks of 2021.  I'm looking forward to having lots of time to devote to running and am going to focus on a solid 2 weeks of base building.  Technically I'm registered for the Richmond marathon in Nov and I have until early Sept to decide if that's at all feasible or if I need to switch to the half.

     

    Hello to all the marathon posters that never posted in the Waltons thread.  My background...I'm a 43 yr old female living in Richmond, VA with my DH, DD(6), and DS(4).  I used to run lots of marathons over a decade ago but looking back realize I made terrible training choices and never really got very fast.  In 2008 I was on track to break 4 hrs but tore my hamstring in mile 7 and that began a long cycle of injuries/childbirths/setbacks and I was never able to string together more than 12 months of solid running.  2020 was a game changer for me.  Putting the kids in the double stroller and going out for a jog was the only way we left the house for months and I gradually went from a 20-30mpw runner to consistently logging 45-50 mpw (with the double stroller).  Then I got greedy and added too much speedwork too quickly and seem to have fallen back into the getting injured every 6-12 months trap.

    Weekly for period: From: 08/01/2022 To 08/07/2022

    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
    in ft
    08/03 77 min easy #GarminDailySuggestedWorkout 6.70 10.79 01:17:07 11:31 07:09 95
    08/04 43 min easy #GarminDailySuggestedWorkout 4.00 6.44 00:46:03 11:31 07:09 62
    08/05 3 x 7 min @ 9:15 #GarminDailySuggestedWorkout 5.11 8.22 00:53:17 10:26 06:29 72
    08/06 Went rogue 5.21 8.38 01:01:53 11:53 07:23 72
    08/07 Ah double digits, it's been a minute 10.51 16.91 02:00:22 11:27 07:07 108

    Total distance: 31.54mi

    5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

     

     

    mmerkle


      darkwave: That's a very impressive week! I hope I can work my way up to that kind of consistent mileage soon. Very sorry to hear about your friend, I hope you feel better soon. Congrats on the new job.

       

      Marky_Mark: Your run titles really crack me up.

      DavePNW


        Weekly for period: From: 08/01/2022 To 08/07/2022

        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
        in ft
        08/01 Morning Run 6.05 9.73 00:54:51 09:04 05:38 249
        08/02 Morning Run 7.07 11.37 01:02:22 08:49 05:29 335
        08/03 8 x 800m, 200m recoveries 9.10 14.64 01:13:08 08:02 05:00 164
        08/04 Morning Run 7.24 11.65 01:03:54 08:50 05:29 335
        08/05 Morning Run 6.05 9.74 00:53:28 08:50 05:29 249
        08/06 Progression/MP 17.01 27.37 02:15:51 07:59 04:58 479
        08/07 Morning Run 7.10 11.43 01:01:15 08:38 05:22 292

        Total distance: 59.62mi

         

        Signed up for a 10k next Sunday. My 8x800 targeted 10k pace, hence the short recoveries. (Which I kind of like anyway because it makes the whole workout go by faster, plus the recoveries can be the suckiest part of an interval workout.) PR pace is 6:46, and I was hoping for 6:40-6:45. Results ranged 6:36-6:40 with #8 at 6:33. So I was happy with how that went. 

        For my LR I met up with my running group and was going to do a straight-up 20. But another guy had a 15-mile progression workout planned and the paces looked pretty good to me, so decided to join a few people doing that. Plan was 3 mile segments at 8:40, 8:20, 8:00, 7:40, 7:00. (I knew the 7:00 was not going to happen, but I figured at that point I’d play by ear.) It did not go exactly as planned, mainly because that guy does not pace very well particularly when it comes to running slower segments. For reference my usual LR pace is 8:30-8:40 and my GMP is 7:38. Actual outcome: 1 mile easy, 7 miles 8:00-8:20, 1 mile 7:50, 6 miles 7:20-7:30, then I added 2 easy cooldown. So it ended up being more like a LR w/MP miles but with both parts too fast. I only realized later that the others running it were all generally much faster than me, ~3 hr marathoners. I’m not sure exactly what that workout did, but I felt good about being able to handle it. 

        Open for suggestions on 10k race week workout, probably on Wed for the Sun race. I’m thinking 1000s or 1200s targeting 10k goal pace, but one fewer repeat than I’d normally do. Goal pace = PR!

        Dave

        mmerkle


           

          Open for suggestions on 10k race week workout, probably on Wed for the Sun race. I’m thinking 1000s or 1200s targeting 10k goal pace, but one fewer repeat than I’d normally do. Goal pace = PR!

           

          I'm curious what others have to say about this, but if I am not mistaken, it can take a good 10 days to realize the full benefits of a long interval workout. So I try to get my last hard workout in around 10-12 days out from a race. I might do controlled fartlek or tempo stuff inside of 10 days to get "dialed in", but other than that, about 3 days out, so Thursday for you, I like doing 8-10 X 200 with full recovery, probably around mile race pace or faster for the 200s. These are about leg speed and getting your nervous system fired up, not cardio. Your body benefits from speed and strength within a couple days.

           

          All that being said I don't think 1000s or 1200s will hurt you if you do them Wednesday, but I think they will function to get you used to what goal pace feels like rather than improving fitness much.

          DavePNW


             

            All that being said I don't think 1000s or 1200s will hurt you if you do them Wednesday, but I think they will function to get you used to what goal pace feels like rather than improving fitness much.


            mmerkle - thanks for the comments! Yeah my main thought was muscle memory + confidence building. Plus, big picture, I’m technically in a marathon training cycle, so would lean towards something that could conceivably fit in that. (MTA: with potentially a HM one week after the 10k.)

            Dave

            DavePNW


              ccoakley - Hello! You are going to love running in OR compared to VA! Assuming it’s western part of the state—where do your parents live? Running that many miles pushing a double stroller is crazy, especially in your heat & humidity, you must be drenched when you’re finished.

              Dave

              ccoakley


                DavePNW, thanks!  Yes, sleeping in til 7am enjoying a couple cups of coffee, and then still being able to run for 2hrs without worrying about heat is my dream running scenario.  My parents are about 10mi north of Corvallis.  Last year I experimented with some trail running in the OSU forests by them but got a little too lost for my liking.  Where in the PNW are you?

                5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                 

                 

                DavePNW


                  coakley - I am in the Seattle area. But my wife grew up right near there, in Salem & Monmouth. And she worked in Albany for a while after college (WOU). She has family all over the region. My son lives in Eugene, just graduated from U of O. Ironically when we went for his graduation, Eugene hotels were all booked up so we stayed in Corvallis. I was a little disappointed with the running options there though. Eugene has miles and miles of asphalt trails along both sides of the Willamette River; Corvallis has the same river, but a trail only a mile or two long. 

                  In any case, yes we are super spoiled with the PNW weather—not too hot/humid in the summer, not too cold/snowy in the winter. Non-runners complain about the long stretches of gray drizzle, but it’s no problem for us runners! The hills are another story, lol.

                  Dave

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                    darkwave - Deepest condolences for your loss, that is terrible.

                     

                    Less importantly, well done on such a big week despite everything else that's going on.

                     

                    Flavio - Thanks!  I'm going on holiday from Thursday - Wednesday so I've got a down week coming up, across 2 "calendar" weeks.  Good timing I think, and after that I'll have basically 6 weeks to go, with 3 big weeks then the taper.  I'm going to Rarotonga which is over the date line so I'll be interested to see if your Strava tool gives me a double on Thursday after I go back in time...it's the coldest time of the year there, with lows of 21C (70F) and highs of about 26C (79F) which will be nice, but a slight shock to the system when running after this week where it's not getting higher than 6C (42F).

                     

                    Nice week for you, that's getting up there (see what I did there?) in mileage and elevation.  2 hours for the long run is very nice with your upcoming shorter races.

                     

                    Ian - Another nice week, our weeks are looking very similar at the moment.  I also find it harder going up and down in pace than one constant pace - my coach likes to throw in "up/downs" to help me understand what the correct effort is.  On my 3km block of MP my pace did creep up too high which may be related to the later cramp, along with the surface and direction changes.

                     

                    Mark - I hope you managed to get out of Auckland with all the fog.  There better not be any on Thursday when I go through on the way to the islands!

                     

                    caitlin - Good to see you over on the dark side.  Yep, I'm feeling like I want the race to hurry up and get here now.  I should be well prepared after another 8 weeks.  Nice week, and really glad to hear the Covid impacts are almost all gone.

                     

                    Dave - That workout is big and a good pointer to a potential PR in the 10km.  I wouldn't do a very big workout in race week - maybe 4x1km at most?  I read somewhere that it takes 2-3 weeks to reap the benefits of workouts so it's really about staying sharp.  Interesting that mmerkle has heard similar, except more like 10 days.  I guess I should just go find a study and read it.

                    Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                    Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                    Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                    mmerkle


                      DavePNW: If the race isn't an important one then what I said matter much less probably.

                       

                      SteveChCh: I think I read 10 days is really more like a minimum but it could be up to 2 weeks, I agree, let's find a study and read it. Maybe someone on here can help us out? I forget who but someone sent me studies on another topic. I think it was RunningProblem?

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        mmerkle - This article seems pretty sound - it differs depending on the type of workout.  I guess this explains why most plans have workouts closer to a race but long runs start scaling down from about 3 weeks out.

                         

                        https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/how-long-before-you-benefit-from-a-workout/

                        Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                        Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                        Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          Steve -  congrats on the record week!!  That's always a nice milestone to hit.  Stop beating up on those trees eh?  No problems getting to Sydney - worst thing was having to wait 45 minutes for my bag.

                           

                          Flavio - 2 hours and 1 second.  I approve.

                           

                          Ian - very impressive week.

                           

                          Darkwave - wow, lot of life stuff this week.  Very sorry to hear about your friend.  Congratulations on the new job.

                           

                          Caitlin - honestly don't know if I'll try and chase Strava crowns in Sydney.  I'm sure there's a LOT of fast runners around here and I might hurt myself.  Anyways it's great to see you back again.

                           

                          MMerkle - I stole the run title idea from Running Problem 18 months or so ago.  It's a lot of fun.

                           

                          Dave - all the best for the 10k.

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                          Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          DavePNW


                             I read somewhere that it takes 2-3 weeks to reap the benefits of workouts so it's really about staying sharp.  Interesting that mmerkle has heard similar, except more like 10 days.  I guess I should just go find a study and read it.

                             

                            I’d always heard 10 days, I think that’s conventional wisdom from some of the training books (Pfitz, Hansons). But no idea what kind of actual physiological phenomenon it’s based on, if any.

                            Dave

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              mmerkle - This article seems pretty sound - it differs depending on the type of workout.  I guess this explains why most plans have workouts closer to a race but long runs start scaling down from about 3 weeks out.

                               

                              https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/how-long-before-you-benefit-from-a-workout/

                               

                              I've posted that article before in these threads and it does line up with other things I've seen. It also points to why almost every coach avoids having your longest run 3 weeks out from the marathon unless you're a beginner: you're better served 4 or 5 weeks out. But you can also get one last big threshold workout in 10 days before a half (but not a v02 max).

                               

                              I'll comment on others tomorrow.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              JMac11


                              RIP Milkman

                                mmerkle - once you get in the groove of racing, it definitely can become addicting! Just be careful in the build up to the marathon: racing too frequently can take away from the main goal. You can have a season dedicated to racing, but it's hard to have a season dedicated to racing and marathons

                                 

                                darkwave - so so sorry for your loss. I remember when I was little, my parents getting upset at someone dying in their 50s. I wasn't a kid who always though "har har har 35 is old" but I definitely was surprised at their reaction. Now that I'm getting older, it horrifies me every time I see a report of someone dying before 60. It's just not fair. A heart attack in your 50s is just terrible. I hope you're able to juggle everything.

                                 

                                Flavio - what's the thinking these days on long runs for 5Ks? I feel like the standard is 90 minutes, but that feels so short to me now!

                                 

                                ccoakley - you may have missed it a few pages back, but I was blabbering on about how amazing OR is, and I didn't even run there! It's just such perfect summer weather after dealing with this horror show of a summer we've had around here. Your line about waking up whenever is SO true - that's probably the only thing I truly enjoy about winter running: running in the middle of the day and not having to worry about whether you're going to have a heat stroke. Tearing a hamstring in marathon - I've never heard that before! That is awful. I assume given you were over in the Waltons, you're sticking with shorter distances?

                                 

                                JT - if you are lurking, I sent you a PM

                                 

                                Mikkey - where are you at?

                                 

                                Steve - I already commented on your run on Strava, so impressive. You're set up for success right now.

                                 

                                Strava  - I've been a bit lazy with following folks, but now that my training is really starting back up, I'll be sure to get on there more. I know piwi misses me.

                                 

                                Speaking of piwiU20 World Championships: Italy's Alberto Nonino furious after wardrobe malfunction. This is some high class journalism: "Perhaps I've explained myself poorly. His penis escaped out of the side of his shorts and he had to hold it because it wasn't allowing him to run properly, which is normal when your dongle is swinging from side-to-side," the reporter said."

                                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)