2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 467 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

    JMac - Kiwi point for the race is forecasted to be 137.
    The HM time for a NYC qualifier seems much easier to me than does the M time.
    I'd actually leave those recovery days as they are and tack on the double (maybe start at 30-35 minutes easy) to a workout or otherwise longer day (not an actual LR day, though).
    It keeps the recovery days much easier on yourself while just adding a little more volume to one that was already tougher. 5 easy miles is a lot more of an addition to 7 recovery than it is to 11 easy, or 11 with some workout miles.

     

    I beg your pardon? 6:17/mi pace seems easier than a 6:38/mi marathon? UFF DAH! I must be WAAAAAAAAY out of training for half marathons to accept this truth.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 52.45

    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

    flavio1980


    Intl. correspondent

       

      I beg your pardon? 6:17/mi pace seems easier than a 6:38/mi marathon? UFF DAH! I must be WAAAAAAAAY out of training for half marathons to accept this truth.

       

      Well normal people find it much easier to do well in the half than in the marathon. I don't have any numbers but I'd bet those half times are achieved by at least 3x more people than the marathon numbers, based on the simple fact that there's no wall in the half.

       

      I did a nice workout earlier today. It was 15x 1' on 1' off, with the on segments in the range 5:30 to 5:40 per mile pace.

      I literally just ran fast and hoped for the best. ended up averaging 5:45 so I'll take that.

      PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

      Up next: 10K Family race

      Tool to generate Strava weekly

      flavio1980


      Intl. correspondent

        I'm having trouble finding a 5k to run in Portugal on account that there are none. There are literally zero 5K races. The only one I could find is a 5000m on the track on September 17th. So odd.... I've asked around and it seems it's like that.

        So I suppose I'll stick to the 5000m in mid September then try to find a fast and roughly flat 10k in mid to late October.

        PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

        Up next: 10K Family race

        Tool to generate Strava weekly

        DavePNW


          Flavio - that’s crazy! You should take it upon yourself and start up a parkrun.

          Dave

          CommanderKeen


          Aspiring Hobby Jogger

             

            I beg your pardon? 6:17/mi pace seems easier than a 6:38/mi marathon? UFF DAH! I must be WAAAAAAAAY out of training for half marathons to accept this truth.

             

            It absolutely does, but I've run good HMs much more recently than I've run a good M. I'm not usually one to think courses run long, but I really do think my HM from April was off by nearly .2mi and if that's anywhere near right then I would gone sub 1:23 with plenty of breathing room.

             

            I'm having trouble finding a 5k to run in Portugal on account that there are none. There are literally zero 5K races. The only one I could find is a 5000m on the track on September 17th. So odd.... I've asked around and it seems it's like that.

            So I suppose I'll stick to the 5000m in mid September then try to find a fast and roughly flat 10k in mid to late October.

             

            This sounds like a golden business opportunity.

             

             

            Had a good workout this morning ahead of the 5k this weekend. I had to look up the paces for the splits my coach gave me because they were fast enough that I had no idea what they were, but I hit them just fine - walking recovery helped with that.

            Conditions are still looking pretty favorable!

            5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

             

            Upcoming Races:

             

            CIM - 12/4

            Ian5


              Cinnamon-86% is brilliant,what's the highest you've hit?

              Flavio-That's crazy about the 5k,in the UK I have 2 races in the next 3 weeks as well as tons of parkruns available.

              I agree the half times are a lot easier,you can get into half decent fitness and blag a half,can't do the same in a full.

              Thanks for all the advice ref the half/taper/20's,I'm going to do 12-14 on Sunday and cut next week to 45 Inc the half so hopefully give a good account,then taper for my race.

              5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

              JMac11


              RIP Milkman


                My wife is a non-runner and puts up with a lot of my BS, but I have to be somewhat judicious in how much money (and vacation time) I piss away running stupid marathons. Maybe someday. 

                 

                I think marathons are a great way to use vacation time! You visit a lot of places you might not normally visit, or need an excuse to go see. Duluth bummed me out a bit more than I expected, but it might have been the bad travel experience! I did enjoy a burger bar I went to after the race: very midwestern feel to it.

                 

                Cinammon - crazy good AG! I'm glad you've been posting so regularly, I wish I was around more back in the day!

                 

                RP - I meant that I do not plan on training for marathons next year so I'd start with you and probably run out of gas around mile 8 - which is right where my new place is . I'd take that as an accomplishment.

                 

                ccoakley - I feel you: I've grown to hate anything faster than LT pace! Plus, I am seeing the writing on the wall with my competitive days: you weren't around during this time, but there was a big discussion on whether ultras are where marathoners go to die 

                 

                Keen/Doubles - I'm surprised you said add the double to another easy day. That would give me 3 days a week of 16+ miles (2 quality days and one double). I had really thought add 5 miles onto my recovery day would be better as that just makes it 12 miles for the day, similar to my normal easy days but broken into two runs. I'll have to think about that more.

                 

                Flavio - do they have a lot of 10Ks where you are? Here in the USA it is probably a 10 or 15 to 1 ratio of 5Ks to 10Ks.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                 

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                   

                  I think marathons are a great way to use vacation time! You visit a lot of places you might not normally visit, or need an excuse to go see. 

                   

                   

                  Keen/Doubles - I'm surprised you said add the double to another easy day. That would give me 3 days a week of 16+ miles (2 quality days and one double). I had really thought add 5 miles onto my recovery day would be better as that just makes it 12 miles for the day, similar to my normal easy days but broken into two runs. I'll have to think about that more.

                   

                   

                  I keep trying to convince DW of this, and I think she's (slowly) coming around.

                   

                  If you're getting 12 on a recovery day that's not a ton of "recovery". Sometimes I've doubted doing 10 recovery some days myself, but it has worked thus far.

                  For quite some time now I've been doing maybe 16 on Monday (12+4), 18-20 on Wednesday (14-15 in a workout, 4-5 double), and 15 or 16 on Friday (10 or 11 + 4 to 5), and 15-16 as a LR on Saturday.
                  I'd much rather keep that double schedule instead of messing with my pure recovery days (Tuesday, Thursday, Sunday). Wow. Just typing that out was the first time it has hit me that I'm spending about half the week on recovery runs...

                  5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                   

                  CIM - 12/4

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    JMac don’t underestimate my ability to sandbag. I recently finished a race where I averaged slower than a 13:00/mi pace.  You can point out things along our run and I’ll add them to my story board.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 52.45

                    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                    DavePNW


                       

                      I think marathons are a great way to use vacation time! You visit a lot of places you might not normally visit, or need an excuse to go see. Duluth bummed me out a bit more than I expected, but it might have been the bad travel experience! I did enjoy a burger bar I went to after the race: very midwestern feel to it.

                       

                      Ehh...I'm not so sure. It may or may not be a place we'd want to visit otherwise. And if it's a big race, hotels are expensive and restaurants are packed - it's exactly the weekend you'd normally want to avoid. Plus I'm tied up all morning running, and at some point have to squeeze in the expo. And I'm usually not in the mood to do a ton of walking around either before or after the race. When she does come with, it's made clear it's something we're mainly doing for me.

                      Dave

                      cinnamon girl


                        Dave - I don't mind their music but not much of a fan, which is why I said their best song was Enter Sandman  I think I was the only one embarrassed when they did Africa (by Toto <- had to google that). The crowd was very into it and I was like  but it was probably just me. It was still fun though as I love outdoor music concerts of almost any type. Green Day was Saturday and I would have much preferred to see them but Saturday was sold out. And about the elevation - garmin data said uphill was in the 370s and downhill in the 390s. But it was three loops so I went with the higher number  And re: 'incredible' that is a stretch. It's about getting old, as you mentioned.

                         

                        CC: thanks. Yes, Behind the Redwood Curtain.

                         

                        Ian: thanks. In my 40s I didn't think much about age-grading, but now in my 50s it's tough to not think about. I'm sure this is the highest I've had.

                         

                        JMac - I think you know I agree with you on the whole travel and run marathon concept! I have no reason to repeat a marathon course. I totally enjoy running as a way to see the world.

                         

                        JT - where you at?

                         

                        As soon as the updated age-grading tables come out due to the super shoe invasion, I'm sure I'll be knocked down a couple percent.

                         

                        Ozzy closed the Commonwealth games. That's how you do it USATF!

                        2022: Oakland Half 6th F, 1st Master, AG 84%, Lake Merced Half 2nd F, AG 86%

                        MM (Houston '12, LA '15, NYC '16, Vancouver '19)

                        No carbon plates

                        flavio1980


                        Intl. correspondent

                          Jmac - Yeah, quite a lot of 10ks.

                           

                          Cinnamon - 86% is mighty impressive! I need to run a sub 16 to reach that 😱

                          I've grabbed these descriptions from masterathletics.net:

                           

                          >100% = World record level
                                 > 90% = World class
                                 > 80% = National class 
                                 > 70% = Regional class
                                 >  0% = An Athlete

                          me - I've got new shoes. I've got another pair of the trusty Altra Paradigm 6 for my long runs and a pair of Altra Escalante 3s and I hope to try it out for workouts and easy runs.

                          PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                          Up next: 10K Family race

                          Tool to generate Strava weekly

                          zebano


                            Dave - I don't mind their music but not much of a fan, which is why I said their best song was Enter Sandman  I think I was the only one embarrassed when they did Africa (by Toto <- had to google that). The crowd was very into it and I was like  but it was probably just me. It was still fun though as I love outdoor music concerts of almost any type. Green Day was Saturday and I would have much preferred to see them but Saturday was sold out. And about the elevation - garmin data said uphill was in the 370s and downhill in the 390s. But it was three loops so I went with the higher number  And re: 'incredible' that is a stretch. It's about getting old, as you mentioned.

                             

                             

                            Weezer has been covering Africa for quite awhile now, I think they even released it and it got radio play a few years back.  I too love the outdoor concerts but especially ones where everyone knows the song and sings along (if I was less self conscious about my singing I'd book it over to Chicago latter this month to sing with ChoirChoirChoir). FWIW Wheezer's best two songs are "Hero" and "Beverly hills". I thoroughly enjoyed seeing them with Green Day, FalloutBoy and the Interrupters last year.

                             

                            Your AG% is impressive, but honestly so is everyone else in this thread.

                             

                            Back to lurking while I try to get healthy so I can run again (JMac you can take my marathon off the front page I've opted not to run it).

                             

                             

                            RP I'm with Flavio - that HM time seems easier to achieve than the M time (though both are out of my reach) but I think you're just built for longer events.

                            1600 - 5:23 (2018), 5k - 19:33 (2018), 10k - 41:20 (2021), half - 1:38:57 (2018), Marathon - 3:37:17 (2018)

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              The HM is unquestionably easier than the M time for most people for NYC.

                               

                              Zebano - remind me what your injury was again?

                               

                              Dave - I get that, but I guess my point was more that it may not have been an area you would have visited otherwise (like Duluth). Yes, rooms are expensive though. For NYC, you don't have to worry about crowding though: it's crowded every weekend . The marathon barely puts a dent in the amount of people here. I do agree on the walking thing though. I refuse to do anything the day before, but I've found my legs are decent the day after. Very hard to get going, but it's okay to walk around.

                               

                              Cinammon - the only course I am repeating is NYC just because it's nice to sleep in your own bed and then come home to your own bed (and avoid horrible travel issues like I did with Grandma's).

                               

                              Mikkey - get back in here.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              ccoakley


                                And sometimes you travel for a marathon and then decide to move there cause the route went through some really cool neighborhoods that look fun.  We moved from DC to Richmond based almost entirely on my marathon experience with barely any extra research. Ended up being an excellent decision.

                                5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)