2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 470 times)

nick john


    spammer
    Ian5


      Cinnamon-I've done Boston and NYC,my 2 favourite.

      Barcelona was amazing,probably helped as I love the city and I'd highly recommend it,done it twice and will again.

      Frankfurt is a very fast course.

      Sevile the same and a great time of the year for Spanish sun.

      Berlin-Fast but my least favourite major for some reason.

      2 different ones in Gran Canaria-Pretty much guaranteed 24-25° to race in,but great for after the race.

      Cyprus-Boring out and back along the sea front,but nice weather and good time of the year to race in March.

      Should have Antwerp and Chicago to add to the list soon.

      5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

      CommanderKeen


      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

        Steve - Thanks!
        I scoped out her Strava and felt considerably less bad about not catching her after doing so, even though she mentioned that her post-injury goal for the race was "only" sub 18. She (and another half-dozen or so) actually did what looks to be an informal marathon on roads around a golf course/race track in late 2020 and ran sub 2:35.


        Caitlin - Fair enough! I'm sure I'll get there. Nice workout, btw.

        5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

         

        Upcoming Races:

         

        JMac11


        RIP Milkman

          Keen - I enjoyed your race report with a nice cup of coffee and a bowl of acai (Flavio, I'm now up to a minimum of twice a week and would probably eat it 5x if there was one near my home instead of my office). You know you're going to get kudos from me for reading the course certification beforehand. I had the opposite happen once where they didn't set up cones where they were supposed to and I was 2nd in the race. I watched the leader in front of me go to the tangent, which technically should have been off limits, but I stuck to the course even though it was the last 2 miles of a half marathon, aka the pain train. I also love the idea of two separate races by age!

           

          I agree with others as well - sub 18:00 should be fairly easy in good conditions.

           

          Piwi - isn't it interesting how we all adapt our language based on those we're around? That's why Twitter is such a fake universe because that may be the most restrictive environment of all and nobody can actually say what they think. There's a reason both sides of the political aisle (at least in the US) have gotten so extreme.

           

          Cinammon - where do you live?

           

          Caitlin - I have a second kid on the way about a month after NYC, so probably that? But also...being lazy. I'm one of those rare runners who, after the first few days of wanting to pull my hair out when injured, actually enjoy not running. But who knows, maybe calbears is right and I'll be back here next fall because we're all crazy people. Also don't worry about sandbagging - it's rule number 7 of this thread. Steve is by far the biggest violator this year. I wouldn't be surprised if he tells us his new marathon goal is 3:59:59 

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

           

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

             

            RP - it is definitely a jog, not a walk. However, I'd describe it more as a shuffle than anything. When I am running those and check back post workout, I will see that those jogs sometimes approach 10:00 pace for me. It's whatever a step above walking feels like.

             

            Thanks. This is what I went with. I'm convinced I learned "If you can jog the recovery you're doing it right, and if you HAVE to walk you're doing it wrong" here. I was in the 10:30/mi range so definately a shuffle. It's just interesting to see two ways to do the same thing, and how me trying to be a literalist doesn't work. For a few of them I was thinking back to darkwave saying she doesn't just stop after a race, but continues jogging for a bit so the legs don't lock up. Olympic runners do it, and for a few I definitley wanted to jog instead of a REALY abrupt stop.

             

            Flavio I'm definately a native speaker. Even being a native American speaker I still don't understand people myself. I'm not the type to get insulted. More "pissed off upset" and not want to talk to you for a while. Somehow it doesn't happen here. Even the nonsense Covid 2020 thread didn't make me hate people here.

             

            Zeb Being blunt has probably made me less friends than anything. I just found out there was no point in being soft delivering news. Just rip the band aid off.

            Tempo work, I think I've only done extended tempo runs where walking isn't an option. Racing more might have helped me hit the sub 90 mark in the half. I just picked one goal. I also like saying I technically ran two half marathon PRs in the same race. Too bad they weren't back to back PRs. I positive split my first sub 3.  I hope the mile time trial went well. I've raced it exactly ONE time and hit a goal I'd never thought possible (breaking 6:00) even when I was a kid.

             

            cc I'd rather be lucky than good.  I think I retain a lot of "ability" (speed/endurance/grit) between races and part of it probably comes from consistent mileage. I'd done the 50-60 mile marathon training weeks/drop to 20 mile week running and coming back up to a 50-60 mile week was rough. Once I kept it around a 40 mile week it was easier to increase to 50 vs building from 20. I also think there is something beneficial about building a workout for "getting back to it" when you've just finished a race and had a couple weeks off. Something in me has learned a lot from this group. I build the workout with the mentality of "you're not going to be in PR shape so don't go there, but you also have to ACTUALLY try hard even though it's been a while." I've blown up workouts plenty of times, and watched people do it as well. Nothing says "you did it wrong" like doing a workout and having your paces drop a minute or two and the recoveries get longer and longer. I'm pretty sure darkwave said something to the effect of "if the point was to run hard and suffer you did great" it stuck with me. This forum, along with with Jack Daniels and Hansons books, makes me think "what is the purpose of this workout?" I use all this when I'm building a "Let's go find out where we're at" type workout. With Garmin's app and the spreadsheet linked on the front page I can usually build something I'd say is a 6 or 7 on a scale of 10 for difficulty. I appreciate the compliment too.

            Your run did look really good the other day. I could probably put a meter stick across those run times and not see any daylight under it. Running on gravel is really a challenge. I can't offer any advice when doing speed work other than to try hard and not be afraid of falling. You might lose a few seconds on the overall time for each interval and it might be comparable to "well it was 100F and I was doing speed workout. It snot like it's 54 outside!"

             

            keen I had to look up the Strava race. I, being the redneck I am, would consider your 5k course to be more of a "racetrack" than a lolly pop. I thought it was an out and back, and after you described lollipops I had to zoom in. Out, back, out, back to the finish, correct? Two laps? Also, THIRD ROW??!?!!?! wow. Thems some fast folks.

            Your heart rate data from the race looked like you went all out. I wish you could post a graph of it or something. It went straight up about as fast as you possibly could, then just locked in around 172. I think it's really close to last year's 5k PR (168?) right before CIM. Actually....how do those two compare?

             

            Breeze - a beneficial headwind during a PR race.

             

            Steve I agree with your statement about Keen's A goal for his upcoming marathon. I think he could benefit from the women's OTQ much like JMac did one year.

             

            I have installed the upper spring on my coilovers on one side of my jeep. I also decided to have the beadlock rings powder coated blue because they're red and I HATE red (my oldest son's favorite color is red).  It is really hard to install a shock around 36" (1M) long in the garage by yourself when you don't have a 2 post lift to raise the vehicle. It's comparable to fitting 10.5 pounds of stuff into a 4.8kg bag. I can't just make a bigger bag.

            The part that says KING SPRINGS is where the top spring stops, and the bottom spring starts. Together they're approximately 28" (71cm) long. The shock has an additional 9" (22.86 cm) of down travel, and my garage floor isn't going anywhere. In my next house I want a 2 post car lift like you see in professional mechanic shops.

             

            coil springs

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 52.45

            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

            flavio1980


            Intl. correspondent

              Keen - thanks for the race report. IIRC this is the first time you really saw pink Jesus riding a unicorn.

              That feeling you mentioned of tunnel vision and not being able to see anything other than the narrow path ahead means excellent execution.

              It’s scary to think just how fast you can go seeing you ran that in 22 degrees C weather and no taper. Also wasting your legs with a 4 mile warm up, though I suppose you do that before every workout.

               

              Piwi - I find your humor excellent maybe we're both pariah. I just like stupid humor like that Grimsby movie or those movies by Leslie Nielsen (RIP)

               

              Caitlin - ah, writing it in a draft message. Excellent choice!

              I’m happy to see you running workouts again.

               

              Mark - I don't remember being insulted/offended by stuff said online, like ever. Maybe I'm the one doing the insulting/offenses 😂

               

              RP - My god did I write stupid stuff on that C. thread. If I haven't apologized to you yet, just wanna say I feel embarrassed for that.

              my understanding is that walking is fine but then the recovery duration has to be shorter.

              I mostly do walking in between R work bouts and jogging between intervals.

               

              Like you mentioned with R work you want to fully recover before the next bout, walking helps you get there faster.

              The challenge with them is running controlled and anaerobic stress/muscular fatigue. These will help with the last 400 in a race.

              With with intervals you want to keep your heart rate elevated. The challenge here is aerobic.

              You think you're probably also fast on the shorter races you just haven't raced many of them.

              PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

              Up next: 10K Family race

              Tool to generate Strava weekly

              ccoakley


                 

                Caitlin - I have a second kid on the way about a month after NYC, so probably that? 

                 

                Congratulations!  I cannot more strongly recommend getting a double Bob stroller with the car seat/snack tray adapter.  Bundle your kids up and plan on doing Sat and Sun 2 hour jogs (9 min + pace) timed for when your oldest wants to drop their nap and bring 1 snack/mile.

                5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)

                 

                 

                CommanderKeen


                Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                  RP - This kind of lollipop:


                  I figured I'd be a bit conservative with where I lined up given that the prize money and super-fast course would bring out all the fast people. I should have lined up further seeing as how I passed a good number of people but was never passed myself.


                  HR graphs, you say??


                  New PR:

                   

                  Former PR:


                  It's a bit odd to compare HR between the two. My recent race was pretty warm, perfectly flat, with a relatively minor wind.
                  The former PR was around 32F/0C, a 20mph headwind to start/tailwind to finish, and decently hilly - the start was uphill and finish downhill.


                  Flavio - Definitely the first time I've gone that hard in a race, which is a bit sad given that I've been running for 7+ years now.
                  3-4 mile warm-ups are my usual for workouts. Depending on how scheduling goes I'll pick one of my next 5ks and do a shorter warmup, just in case.


                  JMac - This race usually has three heats - "elite" (with reasonable gates to ensure just the fast people get in), "open" and "juniors". They combined the elite and open this year so they could run the 18/under race earlier in the day.
                  I remember you mentioning that course cutting before. My last 5k pr was similar. A string of runners cut a corner with ~800m to go and I didn't. It didn't affect placing at all, but did take a bit off their finishing times.

                  5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                   

                  Upcoming Races:

                   

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    Keen The training effect for the NEW PR is higher, with a lower average heart rate and lower max. Temperature difference vs headwind? It makes for an interesting comparison just from experience doing long runs in wind. Wind blows (literally) to run in.

                    You spent more time in Zone 5 this PR as well.

                    Just look at that ramp in the current PR heart rate. Straight to the point.

                    Overall the heart rate is smoother in this heat and I'll just reinforce the belief you're benefiting a LOT from the decision to hire a coach.

                     

                    Also, there is a few local kids who would have hurt adult feelings because they can get well under 17 minutes for a 5k. I do like the idea of "elite" heats with some kind of assumption/proof you're capable of hitting a standard just to avoid passing lots of people.

                     

                    EDIT:

                    Flavio good point on shortening the recovery when walking. I mentally use a light jog as a standard of measurement for effort. If I can't jog even a 12:30 pace I need to slow down. My walk is about a 1/2 mph. not joking. I'm slightly faster than a sloth.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 52.45

                    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                    CalBears


                      There is a difference between being supportive and "mindlessly giving kudos", just like there's a difference between offering advice and criticism vs. throwing insults.  I'm fairly sure some on this thread - if they are being honest with themselves - have veered more towards insults at times.  Thankfully we have not seen much of that in recent weeks.  Intention counts for a lot... I've no doubt Cal is genuine in his comments.

                       

                      I have never in my life insulted people on purpose. First, that's not who I am. Second - I believe, people who are doing it on purpose, probably experience some high from it, it makes them feel better? I feel absolutely the worst if I even think I offended a person, even if that person earned it. Only in rare cases, when I cannot control my emotions, I can see saying something bad to a person.

                       

                      And third... From my early years I understood one thing, in most of the cases, if you are criticized by a person, in most of the cases that means that person at least cares. There is nothing worse, as JMac said, than hearing "good job" when you know there is nothing good about it. So, any time, I was critical of somebody's race or workout - that meant I had something to say and I was saying it sincerely.

                       

                      There is one thing though - my language skills, I learned English when I was 35, so, sometimes my lack of language skills and directness can look like rudeness, I am aware of it.

                       

                      Unfortunately, lately my training is pretty boring, I do not do many modern workouts, do not read many books/articles and rarely follow people's training - and that's what you need if you want to make comments/feedback. So, I am lately reminding myself JTR  Smile - I look like the sweetest person in this thread Smile Hope, no offence? You are very kind, to kind I would say - that's the truth Smile

                       

                      That's all I wanted to say. Yeah, all about myself. Smile

                       

                      But I guess, Mikkey got offended anyway - by me, not mentioning him Smile. Mikkey, I still remember about our potential duel in Boston (btw, cannot see why yankees would reject you - no way that would happen) - no worries, it still keeps me partially motivated. Though, your training log is closed and that's an unfair advantage - I cannot see what you are doing Sad

                      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        RP - Not quite; peak and average HR were also higher for the new PR. I think the smoothness of the new one is partially due to uniformity of conditions.
                        They do allow for youngsters to run in the elite and/or open race, but it's case-by-case.
                        I just looked up the results for the under-18 race, and WOW. A 9 y/o running 17:58. Two 12 y/o kids running sub 17, with one winning by 27 seconds!


                        Agreed, hiring a coach was a smart move. It would have been smarter to have done it years ago, though!

                        5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Keen - Are those times for kids for a 5km???  That is crazy.  Surely if they stick at it they'll be big names in a decade or so.

                           

                          JMac - I know you're winding me up but I'll say for the 100th time....I won't know if I've gone too hard or too easy until the last few km since it's my first marathon.  There's no way I'll just jog it in feeling good.

                          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                          Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                          Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                          CommanderKeen


                          Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                            Keen - Are those times for kids for a 5km???  That is crazy.  Surely if they stick at it they'll be big names in a decade or so.

                             

                             

                            Sure were. Absolutely insane. I guess I might as well drop all the results.

                            Open/Elite

                            Junior

                            5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                             

                            Upcoming Races:

                             

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              Congratulations Steve! You've joined the easily trolled list. See below:

                               

                              JT - "Kipchoge is a better runner than Bekele"

                               

                              JMAC - "Downhill non-certified courses are legitimate for PRs"

                               

                              Cal - "CIM is a cheater course"

                               

                              Flavio - "Acai just isn't that good"

                               

                              Steve - "Your real marathon goal is 3:15"

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                I clearly said I knew it was a wind up...but I'll always take a chance to defend my soft goal.

                                Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                                Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024