2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 467 times)

JMac11


RIP Milkman

    So when I post something that clearly shows they botched the turnaround point, are you still going to say that we're just gaslighting you?

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

     

    DavePNW


      Mark—nice race!

       

      I have had a significant number of races come up slightly short on my watch. Some were low-key and maybe the measurement was off, but some were large established races. It includes 3 marathons that were USATF certified, Boston qualifiers. Other than a few that were off by enough that it was clearly short, I‘ve assumed my watch was the problem and adjusted the distance in my log. Sue me.

      Dave

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

        There was the infamous Christchurch Motorway Half with a botched turnaround point in 2019 which led to a 19.6km course and humiliation for the organisers.  That is quite a small race but not just a casual fun run so it was an absolute shocker.  On the positive side, they have been meticulous since then.

         

        Then there was the Waterfront Half 2019 debacle where they had live tracking at every km and forgot to turn on one of them - the one at the finish line.  Without doing my research I would guess that this is one of the top 5 biggest events in the country...I don't think the fun run type events are an issue but can expect a joke or 2 about race organisers in NZ with these 2 debacles.

         

        At least in Melbourne I won't have that issue - with the weaving around the slow half-marathoners for about 6km I'll probably hit 42.8km before I finish.

         

        Flavio - that is a brute of a hill!  Sounds similar to the hills I run when I go up and run the Summit Road which gain around 50 metres over a km.  I've never tried to push it up those hills because I run them at "easy" effort even though there's nothing easy on those parts of the road, but my easy pace drops about 40 secs per km.  I'd say if I was forcing the pace in a 10km race I'd probably lose about 90 secs per km on the hill itself, then lose more time in the next km during the recovery.

         

        Ian - That half looked pretty impressive to me, even more so after your description of the conditions.

        Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

        Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

        Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

        mmerkle


          Marky_Mark: Thanks for the race report, nice run.

           

          My Week (week 2 of marathon block):

           

                                                                                        Time:     Miles:     Kilos:     Pace/mi:     Pace/kilo:

           

          8/15: Warmup and CD both 2 miles,                       59:44     8            12.8       7:28            4:39

          8 X 2min fast/1min slow, 3.58 miles

          after those 24 minutes according to

          Garmin, leg strength work later

           

          8/16: Easy 6

          Upper body + abs later                                            46:48     6             9.6        7:48            4:51

           

          8/17: Off

           

          8/18: Warmup and CD both 2 miles,                       64:46     9             14.4       7:12           4:29

          5 mile tempo on the track in 31:56,

          last mile 6:08, then did 4 X 100, not

          quite full sprint, all 14s and 15s

           

          8/19: 12 mile progressive LR,                                 1:32:34  12            19.3      7:43           4:48

          pace ranged from 8:15-7:00/mi

          or 5:08-4:21/kilo

           

          8/20: Easy 5                                                             40:00     5               8         8:00           5:00

           

          8/21: Easy 6                                                             48:00     6               9.6      8:00           5:00

          followed by 4 strides

           

          Total: 46 miles, 74 kilos, 5:51:52

          Marky_Mark_17


            Then there was the Waterfront Half 2019 debacle where they had live tracking at every km and forgot to turn on one of them - the one at the finish line.  Without doing my research I would guess that this is one of the top 5 biggest events in the country...I don't think the fun run type events are an issue but can expect a joke or 2 about race organisers in NZ with these 2 debacles.

             

             

            That one was a shocker.  It would've cost me a PB at the time too if they hadn't gone back and pulled the times off video for the top 20 finishers.

            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

            Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              I lost 6 seconds because they extrapolated my pace from the 20th km to guess my finish time.  I guess that's the best they could have done but it doesn't allow for the fact that 99% of people find something to put in a kick in the last km.  I didn't find much that day because I was red lining but if that 6 seconds had cost me a PB or a sub 90 I would have been ropable.  I take my watch time as my official time for that race, so I guess I would have done the same and claimed a PB if I was that close.

              Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

              Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

              Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

              DavePNW


                On Wednesday I still had not yet decided whether I was going to race a half this weekend. The 3x1 I figured was a light enough workout to be in recovery from the previous weekend’s 10k, as well as allow me to be fresh for the half. It went OK—targeted between tempo and HMP, and hit it. But not quite feeling 100%, and in the end decided to let discretion be the better part of valor and skip the half. Instead ran a 20-miler, which I was glad to get in with 7 weeks to Chicago. Of course I checked the HM results to see that I would have won my AG, lol. 

                Next weekend is the Hood to Coast Relay. It’s 200 miles with a team of 12 runners, each has 3 legs of ~5-6 miles. I’m filling an open spot on a team that’s been running it for a few years, and takes it pretty seriously. So I will need to be running hard. I just have no idea how to pace this kind of thing.

                Weekly for period: From: 08/15/2022 To 08/21/2022

                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                in ft
                08/15 Morning Run 6.03 9.70 00:55:23 09:11 05:43 249
                08/16 Morning Run 9.02 14.51 01:20:15 08:54 05:32 449
                08/17 3 x 1 mile tempo 9.01 14.50 01:15:41 08:24 05:13 387
                08/18 Morning Run 7.05 11.35 01:02:31 08:52 05:30 335
                08/19 Morning Run 6.01 9.68 00:54:54 09:08 05:40 253
                08/20 Morning Run 20.30 32.66 02:59:36 08:51 05:30 663
                08/21 Morning Run 6.01 9.67 00:54:22 09:03 05:37 240

                Total distance: 63.44mi

                Dave

                Ian5


                  If they had video of the finish they should have sat there and checked the finish times for every runner .Yes it would take a long time but tough for making a mistake.

                   

                  That one was a shocker.  It would've cost me a PB at the time too if they hadn't gone back and pulled the times off video for the top 20 finishers.

                  5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                  CalBears


                    That 10k course has been measured or checked by multiple AIMS measurers.  It's a regional champs course so it has to be measured, and it hosted National Champs in 2019 and 2021 where they will always remeasure existing courses.  I've run that course 4 times and it's measured 10.1, 10.2, 10.1, 9.9 so it was clearly errant GPS yesterday.

                     

                    JMac and Mikkey try to gaslight me on this because some of the more casual events in NZ sometimes have short courses.  JMac got very upset that my 10k summer fun series had a short course back in February, which was strange because it was a summer fun run series and literally no one cared.  He even posted a rant in the Waltons thread that he later deleted.  Very weird.

                     

                    My 2 cents... Totally anecdotal experience, my personal one, but still - quite plenty of data, relatively. And I have no preference to anybody in this. I like JMac and Mikkey, but I have no any beef with Mark too, why would I?

                     

                    So... I ran 24 marathons, bunch of half marathons, 10Ks, 5Ks, 10 milers - all road races, certified. During that period I used 4 Garmin watches - 305, 910XT, 935 and Vivoactive 4.The only time I had course short was a Half in Livermore - 13.05. I complained to the race directors - because I thought it's unfair to runners who put their effort just to be dismissed by bad measurements. I ran the same course next year - 12.93 and my best half marathon PR, which obviously cannot be considered as a PR. What the heck? I stopped running that race.

                     

                    None of the others were short of 26.2, 13.1, 10, 10K or 5K - all are longer. What does it say? I don't know. But if you look at the way GPS shows you the path you race, there is no way GPS could show shorter distance, than measured by the measurer - basically, a straight line. GPS route is never a straight line. So, my take is, if GPS shows shorter distance, then the distance is measured wrong - whatever they say, certified or not.

                    paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                    DavePNW


                      The worst race distance issue I had was at a half where they misplaced a turnaround cone, and it ended up being about 12.5 miles. Not only was it a pretty big race, it was also something like the Northwest Regional Championships. Oh man, people were pissed. The race org did not handle it super well either—there were naturally a ton of complaints on their FB page, and they removed all the posts. I had a shitty day though, and was just glad to be done early.

                      Dave

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        Cal - that makes sense, although I have seen examples when there’s lots of trees or buildings of running in a straight line through a building or lake.

                        Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                        Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                        Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                        JMac11


                        RIP Milkman

                          I'll post two pictures. The top picture is the turnaround point from this Sunday. The bottom picture is the turnaround from the correct course in the 2019 championship. Note this point is used FOUR times as a turnaround, so take how short it is and multiply by 8.

                           

                          I'll also add in 2019, every single person showed long. From what I can see in 2019, the top guys ran 6.37, 6.41, 6.32, and 6.34. This is exactly what I would expect from a well certified course with a ton of turns - it's very difficult to run the tangents perfectly and more importantly, the more turns there are, the longer GPS measures. A straight line race will often show GPS closer to right distance.

                           

                          From mark's race? I see 6.22, 6.15, 6.18, 6.12 (marks). How can you see those GPS times and think these are the same courses?

                           

                          Mark - stop saying people are gaslighting and instead wonder why are half the people showing short?

                           

                          Screenshot-20220821-203947-Strava

                           

                           

                           

                          Screenshot-20220821-204010-Strava

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                           

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Mark - stop saying people are gaslighting and instead wonder why are half the people showing short?

                             

                             

                            That's what you and Mikkey often do so now I just expect everything from you is just some degree of bullshit and you won't actually engage constructively.  I mean, rather than provide some sort of feedback on the race in the spirit I posted you immediately started rambling on about how you'd run 200 races and they were never short on your GPS and then scoured through Strava logs trying to prove your point.  Just more tall poppy crap.

                             

                            Anyhow, even if you are right - and I'll concede the u-turn does look like it's in a different place - it makes no difference to me.  Wasn't a PB anyways.  The offer is always there for you to move on from whatever massive issue you seem to have with one asterisk on my sig line and try to have some sort of sensible discussion.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                            Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              I've posted only facts about the course being short after you went out of your way before anyone said anything to say the course isn't short, and you've posted a bunch of personal attacks since then. I don't know what to tell you if you think that makes me the asshole and you Mr. Nice.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                I've posted only facts about the course being short after you went out of your way before anyone said anything to say the course isn't short, and you've posted a bunch of personal attacks since then. I don't know what to tell you if you think that makes me the asshole and you Mr. Nice.

                                 

                                I mean seriously, you're gaslighting again but whatever.

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                                Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"