2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 470 times)

Fishyone


     

    I’d never do it voluntarily. For my first one I didn’t actually have a watch; I followed the pacer until I couldn’t (16-17), then death-marched the rest of the way in. At another, the Detroit Marathon, there is a 1-mile tunnel going under the river at around mile 7-8. Signal was completely lost there, as well as during another stretch underneath a freeway. My watch was off for rest of the race and I did not like it.

    I was considering a marathon then backed out when the race website warned that GPS signal was almost non-existant.  Not sure I'd enjoy it at all...

    5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 40:13 (2014), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

    Mikkey


    Mmmm Bop

       

       

       

       Question for the hive mind - How much non-running time do you typically get in a LR (say, 16-20 or 22 miles)? Run it all continuously? Stop once to refill water? Small water stops every 3-5 miles?

       

       

      I’m old school and would never stop or pause my watch during any run unless it was an emergency. I remember being shocked when I first joined Strava and seeing the difference between some folks running time Vs elapsed time and thinking did they stop for a coffee or nap?

      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

      Mikkey


      Mmmm Bop

        I’ve just opened a B.A.A account and will be registering on Monday. 

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

        JMac11


        RIP Milkman

          Dave - sorry to hear on the weather. It always sucks when the weather is beautiful right before your race (or for some reason with Boston, on Tuesday).

           

          Mikkey - I've stopped my watch when getting water during long runs. The reason is I want to know what effort I'm running for each mile, not see an 8:XX pop up and be totally unsure whether I'm putting the right effort in. Especially important in the summer when I'm stopping frequently! Glad to hear you are sticking with Boston. I think you are going to like the race and the town, although I am only going to be happy if I hear that you bought a jacket.

           

          Steve - you've had so many amazing long runs in a row, putting in efforts I would never even attempt. This may just be the one that put you over the edge. It's very hard in marathon training straddling the line of maximum effort without overtraining at this distance. I just hope that it was one bad effort and not that your coach put you over that line. Either way, it's one run, and your taper is coming. I guess I'd just find out from your coach how he plans on monitoring your tapering given you had so many bad cramps - does he plan on adjusting at all to get you fresher at the line? You have said you've recovered from all of your huge efforts very well though, so maybe it really just was a random occurrence. I'd monitor how things go over the next week.

           

          Fishy - I wouldn't run a race that has bad GPS AND lacks clocks at every mile. NYCM is notorious for bad GPS signals, but with clocks at every mile, it doesn't matter.

           

          Speaking of GPS measurements on watches and marathons, I saw this paper which I found fascinating on GPS "error" with some of the biggest certified marathons. It's amazing how much it varies by course. Not shockingly, Chicago and NYC have the largest variation around the average distance given both the crowds and the tall buildings: Even on my daily runs, I lost about 0.05 miles per mile of running if I'm on the streets. London is close behind. Chicago is interesting in that is far and away the "longest" marathon by GPS, not sure why that is. Boston has the least variation around the mean, which also is not shocking: it's basically run in the suburbs until the last mile or two, and even then the buildings are not particularly tall.

           

          Precision of Wearable GPS in Marathon Races

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

           

          Mikkey


          Mmmm Bop

             

             Mikkey - I've stopped my watch when getting water during long runs. The reason is I want to know what effort I'm running for each mile, not see an 8:XX pop up and be totally unsure whether I'm putting the right effort in. Especially important in the summer when I'm stopping frequently! Glad to hear you are sticking with Boston. I think you are going to like the race and the town, although I am only going to be happy if I hear that you bought a jacket.

             

             

             

             

            Yep, I understand that some folk need to take a minimum break which is fine imo.

             

            Yes I’ll buy a Boston jacket and then donate it to my local charity shop. I’m all about giving Smile

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

            JMac11


            RIP Milkman

               

              Yep, I understand that some folk need to take a minimum break which is fine imo.

               

              Yes I’ll buy a Boston jacket and then donate it to my local charity shop. I’m all about giving Smile

               

              Only after you wear it a few times to your local park run to confirm to everyone that you are, in fact, King Dong

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

               

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                 

                Mikkey - I've stopped my watch when getting water during long runs. The reason is I want to know what effort I'm running for each mile, not see an 8:XX pop up and be totally unsure whether I'm putting the right effort in. Especially important in the summer when I'm stopping frequently!

                 

                This is myself also - since I train by effort, I do want to know after the run what pace the effort yielded.  Additionally, in my area it seems like the people who never pause their watches are also the people who tend to make risky decisions when crossing intersections.  I feel like pausing my watch when I have to stop for traffic encourages me to make smart decisions about intersections.

                 

                That being said. for track workouts I do not pause my watch, even if I have to stop to retie my shoes or similar.  That's because the absolute duration of the time between hard efforts is important to me, whether that time is spent tying shoes or jogging.  I know a lot of people who will insist that they took 2:30 recovery after each interval, when actually it was 2:30 plus 60 seconds while their watch was paused and they were drinking water.  And there's a big difference between 2:30 and 3:30 recovery, especially if the rep was 3:00 in duration.

                 

                 

                  Chicago is interesting in that is far and away the "longest" marathon by GPS, not sure why that is. Boston has the least variation around the mean, which also is not shocking: it's basically run in the suburbs until the last mile or two, and even then the buildings are not particularly tall.

                 

                Precision of Wearable GPS in Marathon Races

                 

                Chicago is so off because the first mile is partially an underpass.  When I ran it in 2016 my GPS read 27.56 miles.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                   

                  Only after you wear it a few times to your local park run to confirm to everyone that you are, in fact, King Dong

                   

                  Amen. 👍

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                    JMac - Yep, I stop my watch for the same reason, to get the correct splits.

                     

                    The coach has already roughly outlined the taper.  I've been peaking at around 105-110km per week.  This coming week is 80-85km, then the following week is 60-65km.  In race week I'm running all the same days but only 6-10km so the race week total will be about 75km, including the race.  Does that sound reasonable?

                     

                    I've pulled up reasonably well today.  The only difference yesterday was I removed my morning coffee to replicate race morning and to avoid pee stops which was successful for the first time ever on a 20 miler.  It was much cooler than last weekend so I was pretty confident.  It's a completely different feeling in marathon training when things go wrong - in half training, I know I'm hurting and can sense a fade coming some way off.  This time I was going along feeling great then I got hints of cramp for about 1km before it really hit.  Even during the awful final 10km I felt fine everywhere except the cramping which took turns between each hamstring.  If the last 10km of the race is like that, I can't imagine anything more miserable.

                     

                    It could just be the cumulative fatigue.  And I did have a pretty heavy workout on Wednesday night.  I'll definitely monitor everything, but I may be better off focusing on the many good weeks I've had.  Incidentally, my coach is doing the race and targeting 3:05-10 and is basically doing exactly the same workouts (with slightly faster paces for MP) and volume.  He does have quite a few marathons behind him though.

                     

                    Running really is a great sport for putting you in your place.  I was starting to feel really confident.  I still feel good about my training but it's a good reminder to not get carried away on race day.

                    Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                    Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                    Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                    DavePNW


                       

                      if I have to stop to retie my shoes

                       

                      I know this was just an example, but is this a thing people do? I’ve never had to do this. In fact the only time I tie my shoes is when I put them on for the first time. I tie them loosely enough that I can slip them on & off, and they stay tied throughout their lifetime.

                       

                       

                      Chicago is so off because the first mile is partially an underpass.  When I ran it in 2016 my GPS read 27.56 miles.

                       

                      Yikes! But yeah I have heard GPS goes haywire at the start there...the worst time for it to happen imho, when you’re trying to find your pace groove. I am hopeful it won’t screw me up too much, but I guess if it doesn’t last too long it should be manageable. In marathons I rarely look at my overall elapsed time. I just keep an eye on my lap pace and take it one mile at a time.



                      Dave

                      Mikkey


                      Mmmm Bop

                         

                         

                        Running really is a great sport for putting you in your place.  I was starting to feel really confident.  I still feel good about my training but it's a good reminder to not get carried away on race day.

                         

                        You do come across as a glass half empty runner which doesn’t bode well at the marathon distance when the going gets tough.

                         

                        When I ran my marathon PR in 2019 I had a lot of stuff going on which was affecting me mentally even though I was in good physical shape.

                         

                        The week before the race my wife suggested I read The Secret to get in a better more positive mindset…and it worked.

                         

                        https://www.thesecret.tv/the-secret-documentary/

                        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Thanks Mikkey I'll take a look.

                           

                          I'm definitely an over thinker, as my partner likes to remind me.  I'm still feeling positive though, I know one run doesn't mean too much over such a large body of work, but I'll still try and take some lessons from it.

                           

                          I think I have the ability to work through some tough times on the marathon, but I guess we will find out.

                          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                          Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                          Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                          Marky_Mark_17


                             

                            Only after you wear it a few times to your local park run to confirm to everyone that you are, in fact, King Dong

                             

                            If someone spent years trying to hit a BQ and then finally got it, they're allowed to be proud of their achievement.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                            Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              My week was a bit of a bust but I guess if you're gonna catch a cold, then immediately after a race and with 4-5 weeks until the next goal race is probably as good a time as any.  3 days off is the longest rest I've had in almost two years so maybe not a bad thing.  Managed an easy hour this morning, legs still a bit heavy and HR a touch on the high side but definitely feeling better.  Give it a day or two and I should be back to normal.

                              Weekly for period: From: 05/09/2022 To 11/09/2022

                              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                              in m
                              05/09 That run where it’s done, done, on to the next one 4.46 7.17 00:33:25 07:30 04:40 15
                              06/09 That run where some idiot keeps leaving empty gel packets in the Okahu Bay drinking fountain 9.35 15.05 01:01:46 06:36 04:06 44
                              07/09 That run with a domain cruise feat J. Drake 8.40 13.52 00:59:30 07:05 04:24 140
                              11/09 That run where I caught one last cold for winter 9.23 14.84 01:06:54 07:15 04:30 101

                              Total distance: 50.58km

                              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                              Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                On the watch question: I've said before I feel I need a watch on easy runs, but for the opposite reason: to prevent myself from going too fast. Happened on my easy run today where I felt very good and my pace started going faster than my limit, which is MP+20% (I've found if I run faster than that, my workout suffers the next day even though I "felt" great during the easy run)

                                 

                                Fishy I didn't run a marathon, but I did run a 5 mile race this past summer where I forgot my watch at home. I don't think I did a good job. Darkwave is the only one on here who I think races regularly without one (at least looking)

                                 

                                Just saw this.  Yup - I wear a watch so I have the data after, but don't have pace visible on it.  For training runs I usually use a screen that displays time of day, heart rate, and overall distance covered.   Occasionally on the track I will use a screen that shows lap time (this is for long tempos or other workouts where I may forget how many laps I have done - since GPS is screwy on the track, lap time is a better indicator than distance).  So many times I don't know what paces I've held until I'm done with the run and can review everything

                                 

                                For races, I go with a screen that is totally useless - I don't know what time I'm going to run until I see the finish clock.

                                 

                                This works really well for me because, like Steve, I tend to get a little too much into my own head if I have the constant feedback from a watch.  Without that feedback, I'm able to focus on just giving my best effort, whatever that may be that day.  I know that this doesn't work for other people, who benefit from the prodding of a watch.  But for me, my best workouts and races are always when ignoring the watch.  All of my PRs were set without looking at a watch.

                                 

                                It also has the nice side benefit that I don't get flustered if a mile marker is off or GPS is screwy or my watch runs out of battery half-way through the race.   I also don't have to do math to figure out how much to adjust my paces for weather, hills, etc.

                                 

                                Steve - I'm sorry about the bad run.  Perhaps good that you got it out of the way now rather than during your marathon?

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.