2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 468 times)

Mikkey


Mmmm Bop

     

    Yeah but I still haven't run a race so I don't know how my body will hold up to the last 10km.  Also, I've been training towards my goal time so if I suddenly decide to take 10 minutes off that, I'm asking my body to do what I didn't train for.  I guess when you've done as many as you guys, maybe you forget your first and the fear involved?  I did hear a good piece of advice the other day - you only get one first marathon so make sure you enjoy it.

     

    Sub 3:10 is what your rule suggests.  But how many people get a lifetime PR in their first marathon?

     

    JMac - I know I know, I've done it again...but I'm tapering, so what else am I going to do?

     

    You’re an experienced runner now and it’s possible for you to run an amazing debut marathon.

     

    Just do it…and fire your coach.

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

    Marky_Mark_17


       

      You’re an experienced runner now and it’s possible for you to run an amazing debut marathon.

       

      Just do it…and fire your coach.

       

      And above all else, make sure you listen to advice from trolls on the internet, what could possibly go wrong.

      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

      * Net downhill course

      Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

      Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

         

        Yeah but I still haven't run a race so I don't know how my body will hold up to the last 10km.  Also, I've been training towards my goal time so if I suddenly decide to take 10 minutes off that, I'm asking my body to do what I didn't train for. 

         

        Honestly, distance running is not a precise skill where you need to practice running at a specific pace to train that muscle memory.  It's not like figure skating, or gymnastics, or sprinting, or swimming, or equestrian.  It's a physiological sport, not a skill sport.  If it was a skill sport, there would never be any examples of people running great marathons on nothing but easy miles.

         

        At the same time, I'm personally a big fan of first time marathoners going out conservatively, and then picking it up after 20 if you feel good.  FWIW.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        DavePNW


           

           I did hear a good piece of advice the other day - you only get one first marathon so make sure you enjoy it.

           

           

          That is contrary to most people’s experience, LOL. 

          Steve - I think 2xHM+15 is usually a safer bet for most people. That puts you around 3:15 which might be a good goal. But, run your own race. The hardest part of marathoning is always knowing what pace to go out at, and the formula for predicting that is a little different for everyone, not to mention varying race conditions.

          Dave

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            Chiming in on MMerkle's race - I don't consider that a very fast course at all.  I'd say he'd have been significantly faster on the roads.  FWIW.

             

            Steve - I see the taper crazies are hitting.

             

            Flavio - scary story - I hope everything remains OK with your wife.

             

            Ian - I think you should get double mileage for hungover running.

             

            Time conversions - my 10K PR is 38:56, so way slower than y'all.  But my slowest performances have always been at the 5K and 10K.

             

            ***

            52 miles running, 90 minutes pool-running, and 1500 yards swimming.

            M: 8 miles very easy (10:16)
            T: 9 miles, including a track workout of 6x800 in 3:28, 3:25, 3:19, 3:15, 3:14, 3:12 (recoveries between 2:3x and 3:0x). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
            W: 8 miles (9:27) and drills/strides, plus streaming yoga.
            Th: 90 minutes pool-running, upper body weights/core.
            F: 7 miles, including a 1600m at tempo effort (6:54), followed by injury prevention work and streaming yoga.
            Sa: 2 miles very easy (9:40)
            Su: 3.5 miles warm-up, half-marathon in 1:34:05, 1.5 mile cool down. Later some injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.

            Raced the DC Half as my tune-up for Chicago. I thought I'd run about 1:32 but ran 1:34 (for a brand new lifetime personal worst - yay?). Despite the PW, I'm not that upset about running 2 minutes slower than I expected.  The weather ended up being warmer than forecast and it seemed like most people were a bit off of what they thought their fitness was. I got a good hard effort in, and that's the most important thing. I still think I can run around 3:15 at Chicago if we get good weather (which admittedly is a big if).

             

            Race report.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            SteveChCh


            Hot Weather Complainer

              darkwave and Dave - Yep, agree with all of that.  darkwave, I'm more thinking that I'm more likely to blow up and/or cramp if I try to run significantly faster than what my training has been tailored towards.  I agree that I'd have no problem running a faster speed for a long period, but probably not long enough.

               

              Also, on the taper crazies, I just looked at 5 different 14 day forecasts and they vary a little but none of them have an unseasonably warm day either on the day or surrounding days so I'm happy with that.

               

              darkwave - Still not too bad for a PW especially given what you've dealt with over the last few months..  I have a feeling you might go much better than you expect in Chicago.

               

              Flavio - I forgot to comment on your pacing attempt...I think if the person you're pacing ends up in ER it may be fair to say you didn't quite get the pacing right?   Glad she's okay, that sounds like awful conditions and absolutely ridiculous to start at 9am.

              Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

              Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

              Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

              Mikkey


              Mmmm Bop

                 

                And above all else, make sure you listen to advice from trolls on the internet, what could possibly go wrong.

                Trolls that have consistently run sub 3 marathons?  I’m being honest and genuinely want Steve to run his best marathon and he can take my advice or leave it.

                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                DavePNW


                  I had a week. 

                  I did my workout on Tuesday; usually it’s Wednesday but I was going out of town on business, and there was some uncertainty about what kind of route I would find. Plus I had skipped my planned HM on Sunday due to the smoke, and in fact did not run at all that day—nothing resembling a LR last week. So I figured I’d be well rested. But it was awful. Ran 6 continuous miles targeting tempo/LT pace, but ended up 15-20 sec too slow. Usually it at least improves as the workout goes on, but it didn’t. Very disappointing. At this point in the cycle, you really want to be nailing them. 

                  I felt a little better about Saturday‘s LR. I was with my running group as usual, but what was unusual is no one was going my distance & pace. I had my choice of going with people too slow or too fast. (Of course I could have gone alone, but no.) I went with too fast. My typical LR pace is around 8:30-8:40; GMP is 7:38. This group was going around 8:00. (My overall average was 8:14, since I did some early miles solo, an there were some nasty hills sprinkled throughout.) I managed to keep up with the group (until dropping back a bit the last two miles), but it was definitely more effort than my typical LR. Is this the dreaded “dead zone”? I remember popping in here and seeing people talking about it, but not sure whether the consensus was that it’s a bad thing, or that it’s BS. 

                  Anyway, finished the week at 70. I normally have 3-4 weeks at 70+ per cycle, but this is the only one this time around. Mainly because I was doing other things during the peak period that sacrificed mileage volume—10k race, Hood to Coast Relay, HM DNS. Oh well. It is what it is.

                   

                  Weekly for period: From: 09/12/2022 To 09/18/2022

                  Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                  in ft
                  09/12 Morning Run 8.01 12.89 01:11:41 08:57 05:34 312
                  09/13 6 mile tempo fail 11.08 17.82 01:30:09 08:08 05:04 430
                  09/14 Morning Run 10.19 16.40 01:33:49 09:12 05:43 515
                  09/15 Morning Run 8.01 12.89 01:12:18 09:02 05:37 377
                  09/16 Lunch Run 5.03 8.09 00:43:26 08:38 05:22 223
                  09/17 Morning Run 22.01 35.42 03:01:05 08:14 05:07 810
                  09/18 Lunch Run 6.02 9.69 00:54:29 09:03 05:37 262

                  Total distance: 70.35mi

                  Dave

                  DavePNW


                    I still think I can run around 3:15 at Chicago if we get good weather (which admittedly is a big if).

                     

                    Some of you may know michaelmarty from around these forums. He’s the 3:15 pacer!

                    Dave

                    Marky_Mark_17


                       

                      Some of you may know michaelmarty from around these forums. He’s the 3:15 pacer!

                       

                      I follow him on Strava - he was on my team for the 20xx in 20xx game a few years ago.

                      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                      * Net downhill course

                      Last race: Run the Point 10k, 27 Nov, 35:00, 1st overall

                      Up next: Speights West Coaster, 10 Dec

                      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      mmerkle


                        Thanks to all for the input on my race result. Flavio I'm glad your wife is ok after that.

                         

                        My Week:

                         

                                                                                                    Time:         Miles:     Kilos:     Pace/mi:     Pace/kilo:

                         

                        9/12: Off, upper body and core

                         

                        9/13: Easy 9                                                        1:09:01         9            14.5       7:41            4:47

                         

                        9/14: 2 mile warm up, then

                         

                        2 X (3 miles fast, 1 mile easy) on

                        a road loop with some rolling hills;

                        18:26, 19:00 for the 3s, 53:54 for

                        the total 8 miles                                                   1:10:34        10            16.1       7:04           4:24

                        Leg strength work later

                         

                        9/15: Easy 8                                                        1:05:39         8             12.8        8:13          5:07

                         

                        9/16: Easy 7                                                         57:47           7              11.2       8:16          5:09

                         

                        9/17: 3 mile warm up,

                        Burke Lake 10k, 2 mile CD                                  1:21:36        11.2          18          7:17          4:32

                         

                        9/18: Easy 8                                                         1:01:40         8              12.8       7:43          4:48

                        Leg strength work later

                         

                        Total: 53.2 miles, 85.6 kilometers, 6:46:17

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Trolls that have consistently run sub 3 marathons?  I’m being honest and genuinely want Steve to run his best marathon and he can take my advice or leave it.

                           

                          I do find your faith in what I can do quite heartening.  I need to prove to myself I can actually finish a marathon and the second attempt, depending on how the first goes, may well target that sub 3:10.

                          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                          Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                          Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                          mmerkle


                            DW: Well done on that half. You did a long warm up, and it's just one race. Hope you'll be happy with your Chicago performance. Just curious, are you familiar with Burke Lake Park? Or are you going off my description of the course? Roads definitely would have been a pinch faster at least.

                             

                            Dave: The dead zone thing is a bit confusing but I think the consensus is more or less that doing a few miles in the dead zone during a LR can be beneficial psychologically, knowing what race pace or near race pace feels like. But you don't want to spend too long at that pace since you won't benefit much more than if you ran a little slower. I believe the ideal pace is supposed to be roughly 85-90% of marathon race pace? But this I think is a heavily debated topic. I'm still learning myself.

                            CalBears


                              Steve - I agree with Mikkey, that you can run 3:10 marathon based on the rule and the mileage you ran, but I also didn't know it is going to be your first marathon. That definitely gives you some freedom from the tough goal - too many uncertainties with the first one - that's my opinion.

                               

                              DW - nice half and nice mileage. You had a tough year, you are still here - that's the main thing I think.

                               

                              flavio - yeah, that's some experience. 30 oC is awful for racing - at that temps you can only run by feel, not to race. Decent mileage week.

                               

                              Ian - decent mileage for the week after marathon.

                               

                              Mikkey - every time I read your comments I am getting back to golden years of RWOL forum . Great times!

                               

                              My week was ok. Two weeks of taper now.

                              Weekly for period: From: 09/12/2022 To 09/18/2022

                              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km  
                              09/12 Lunch Run 12.03 19.36 01:42:00 08:29 05:16  
                              09/13 3 x 2 miles 800 jog 10.08 16.22 01:19:35 07:54 04:54  
                              09/14 Lunch Run 12.04 19.38 01:48:26 09:00 05:36  
                              09/15 with 10 @mp effort 12.08 19.44 01:24:52 07:02 04:22  
                              09/16 Afternoon Run 12.53 20.16 01:55:55 09:15 05:45  
                              09/17 Afternoon Run 17.62 28.35 02:20:25 07:58 04:57  
                              09/18 Afternoon Run 12.76 20.53 01:56:07 09:06 05:39  

                              Total distance: 89.15mi

                              paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                                 

                                DW - nice half and nice mileage. You had a tough year, you are still here - that's the main thing I think.

                                 

                                +1