2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 496 times)


Cobra Commander Keen

    JMac - The Wurst Race won't be a PR attempt, but the Music Factory Half will be.

    5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22


    Upcoming Races:


    Wurst Race Half - Oct. 7
    Heartland 100 - Oct. 14




      Dave I've gone out at goal race pace for almost all the races I've done that I can remember. I actually don't remember how I raced in the early years when I didn't do marathons. I think I just ran hard and tried to stick with a group I'd raced with previously. I've very much gotten lucky/been fortunate/trained well for the times I've completed race distances in. Heck, even my 50 miler I just did was impressive to me. I was expecting more of a 12:30 time and just kept going until I couldn't go then started going again. I guess I live the life of "If you're going to be stupid you'd better be tough.


      If you went out at your goal race pace and achieved it, you (1) trained well, (2) predicted the right goal, (3) executed the race well. If any one of those three things isn't done properly, you can have a rough day.


      Please forgive me if I am going around & around on this and stating the obvious, but for the next two weeks my brain will be hyper focused on (1) pace I should go out at, and (2) weather forecast.



      Hot Weather Complainer

        Dave - Don't worry about it - you've still got about 5 pages of posts before you catch up with the number of circles I've gone in on those very topics

        5km: 18:40 9/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:27:32* 5/22 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

        *Net Downhill.  Flat course PR:  1:29:25 6/16

        Upcoming Races:

        Run Prix Half Marathon (Melbourne) September 24, 2023

        Christchurch Marathon April 21, 2024


        RIP Milkman

          Steve - looks like dew points in the 40s. That's actually as important as the temperature itself. Upper 50s with dew points the same can be a less than ideal marathon. Upper 50s with dew points in the 40s is very nice. Things are looking great!


          Dave - every successful marathon of mine is the first mile is slow, second mile just behind pace, third mile on pace, and then hold that as long as you can. The benefit of having done many marathons is you sort of know what that mile 20/21 is supposed to feel like. I still remember my third marathon where there is a specific bridge you climb in NYC where I felt gassed in my second marathon, but felt much better this time around. Having those memories helps a lot. Its almost like having bad marathons helps you have good ones. My blow up at Grandma's this Spring will certainly help if I feel bad, but not that bad, at mile 21 this year!

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


          Next Race: NYC Half (3/19)




            Cal - are you getting to London early to adjust to the time? I feel like it would be hard going to west to east for a marathon: east to west is so much easier.



            We will arrive on Thursday at 2pm, not sure how to fight the jet lag. Will figure something out - but yes, I have never had an experience crossing 8 zones and then running a race. I had a lot of back and forth flights - from Russia to US and back, but never with a goal of racing 100% few days after landing - so, I started thinking now... 

            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile


            Intl. correspondent

              RP - Hydro always does lots of damage due to the dam. Brazil has one of the largest hydros in the world in Itaipu, the dam covers a huge area and it even covered a well known touristic spot at the time, known as one of the wonders of the world. That said, I’d still fear more the nuclear plant, cause a nuclear disaster makes the area uninhabitable for a few thousand years.

              Again, similar to airplanes, I suppose there are so few incidents with nuclear plants that whenever one happens everybody hears about it.

              Also, 6:10/mi is roughly 3:51/km. My conversion table goes like this: 6:00 is 3:45, every 8 seconds per mile is 5 seconds per km, 16 seconds per mile is 10 seconds per km.

              So 6:08 = 3:50, 6:16 = 3:55 6:24 = 4:00 etc.

              Last but not least, kudos for your very precise exactly 60 miles for the week.


              Dave - I also enjoy running with a group, but I never had many opportunities. I’m not even the chatty type, it’s just that it seems easier to run in the group.

              Also, LOL at you just dropping that you ran 100 miles cause you had a couple extra hours in a week. That’s IMMENSE ability.


              Steve - You seem rather cool and collected for this race, though perhaps you’re freaking out on the Walton’s thread.


              Mark - I’m impressed it takes that long to go through security and customs seeing as NZ and AUS feel like they’re practically a federation.


              Mikkey - I like that definition, “old school”. I feel like I’d never have to tell Cal to harden the F up.


              me - I picked up a left inner quadriceps niggle sigh. I hope it goes away soon, I'm trying to correct it with foam rolling.

              PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

              Up next: 

              2023-10-01 - Köln half marathon

              2023-12-03 - Valencia Marathon

              Tool to generate Strava weekly


                My belated comments on the weeklies:


                Dave- Nice week. You're right on point for Chicago.  I've never run it...It's on the list so maybe next year.  Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the race.


                JMac- Killer LR!! You are on target.  If the weather is right I say go for it at your Half.  I think I focus too much on the goal race and loose opportunities to run some nice shorter races (I think that's why my other PRs don't line up at all with my marathon PR).


                Cal- I'm looking to you to represent the old guys on the thread! You're training is an inspiration.


                Flavio- Great race and report!  I've never mastered the art of race reports.  Yours was a great read.


                Keen- another boring 95 mile week....what else can be said.


                RP- See you in Boston....


                Krash- The course looks fun but the weather would scare the #$@% out of me!!  I'm not a hot weather fan at all.  I think you "ultra" guys are somehow immune to the inventible laws of nature that seem to destroy us mere mortals!!!


                Steve- Race smart.  I don't always follow my own advice of but I would follow JMacs plan.  1st mile slower, 2nd miler a little faster and by the end of 3 you're locked in to goal pace and cruise from there!!

                5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 


                RIP Milkman

                  Flavio - I mentioned in my post I picked up something in my calf / back of knee. It's now bothering me in my hamstring. The thing that's interesting with niggles for me is that they almost never turn into full injuries, so I'm not too concerned. It seems like my injuries that knock me out for 7+ days always go from nothing to "I can't possibly run on this." Sometimes I do run an entire run on it, but in the back of my head, I know the next run is going to tell me to shut it down. They are still incredibly annoying though - I've had this tendonitis in the back of my knee since about May! Hasn't stopped my running, but it makes getting out of chairs very annoying. I've only seen some relief in the past week or two. Oh - and I type all this while eating my acai for the morning 


                  Cal - start getting to bed super early now!


                  Fishy - you bring great energy to this forum, I'm glad you're back for your fall cycle! Have you run Philly before? I've thought about it a few times as it's an easier course than NYC, but being able to wake up in my own bed for NYC always leaves me extra lazy and just continually


                  Weather Watch - since a few of us are on the weather watching train, my weather turned to the worst, mainly because of wind. Looking like winds around 20 MPH now with rain. There's an alternative half that would have winds around 13 MPH (it's not near the cost), but does have a harder elevation profile. Luckily I can sign up for that one last minute, so I'll have to see how the forecast evolves over the next few days. For now though, I have absolutely no idea how to decide whether a flat course with more winds is easier/harder than a hillier course with less wind.

                  5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


                  Next Race: NYC Half (3/19)



                    JMac - for 13 vs 20mph, I would take the flatter course (although it depends on how hilly). If it was 0 vs 20mph, I’d go with hilly. Although wind is tough to figure—often it comes & goes, and maybe part of the time it will be at your back.



                    RIP Milkman

                      Thanks Dave. I should have attached the courses for reference. It's a fun little thought experiment if nothing else. The winds for both races will be out of the NE, potentially ENE. So on the flat course, it'll be mainly a side wind, somewhat diagonal, as the course runs NNW. For the "hilly" course, it will be more of a headwind/tailwind.


                      I just checked the latest forecast. At mid-race, the flat windy course is 17 MPH, 64 degrees, 55 DP, showers. The "hilly" course is 12 MPH, 60 degrees, 49 DP. So the the wind difference isn't as huge, but the temperature is a solid 10 degrees cooler (combining temperature and dew point).


                      This is tricky! I'm actually not sure which is easier at this point. The temperature point makes this harder.


                      Flat Course, Windier, warmer


                      Hillier course, less wind, cooler

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


                      Next Race: NYC Half (3/19)



                        Jmac-This looks complicated but might give you an answer


                        Had to abort my last longer run on Sunday as I have felt like crap for a few days,I seem to be over it now so just in time.

                        Weather looks fine for Chicago from here,good to have a 7.30am start,rather than the 10am I had in Antwerp.

                        5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                        Running Problem

                        Problem Child

                          For those who remember the smoke I was dealing with....the big power company in California who was responsible for all of the big fires in the past 5 years is now being looked into again.




                          Thankfully the state let them survive, and granted them immunity (pretty much) from being held responsible for the past two "biggest fires in the State of California"  and one of those was because the State waited until they could get Federal Funding instead of using their financial surplus (yes surplus) to pay for it.


                          Flavio Three Mile Island has people living pretty close by and was shut down. It's like being afraid of a parked car. When driven responsibly it's not a danger to anyone. When Prescilla Ford gets behind the wheel it isn't.

                          Also, converting KMs to Mi sounds similar to F and C conversions. Multiply by 5 then divide by 8....Maybe I can remember 16 seconds per KM = 10 seconds per Mi. wait...that's backwards.



                          davePNW yes. I agree I train well for the marathons I've done well at. It is a circular argument. I do well because I train hard. I train hard because I do well. I've also always gone out at goal pace. It's part of my "checkers or wreckers" mentality. Go for the gold. Darkwave goes out by feel. I can still see her in 2017 (?) running by me at CIM after the first few miles and it just blew my mind someone would speed up so much over the course of a marathon. Still does.



                          JMac Jersey Shore looks like a headwind for the first half. 20 mph winds + running = FUCK THAT NOISE! Been there. Done that. Type 3 fun. I'd look at Sono a lot harder. The hill up Wilson Ave and Highland is where it's going to suck. Right after you pass the boat storage area you know a hill is coming and it's probably a mile long. Do you think you can back off effort for a mile (google earth the course) up the hill and bring it home hard? The last climbing you do is between schools and I'm going to place money MOST people blow up on the first longer hill. I guess it's a "win vs PR" situation at Sono. I'm no "first place" runner. This is just me scoping out the course trying to make an attack plan.


                          Wait...it's in Sandy Hook Bay? I thought that was a school in Connecticut or Mass...wtf? Alex Jones LIED!

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 55.2

                          5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22


                            JMac- I went into "lurker mode" for a while this summer but I was monitoring the shenanigans' around here...


                            I ran Philly last year 3:20:43.  I stayed at a hotel that overlooked the course and was a short walk to the start/finish.  It was a great race, awesome weather and crowd.  Couple of little hills but for the most part flat with good crowd support.  Out of Hartford, Boston, Philly and Providence it is my favorite of the "city" races so far.


                            I was sick as a dog for 2 1/2 weeks leading up to the race and still taking nyquil to sleep even the night before so I wasn't that unhappy with the result. Hopefully this year I'll perform a little better.


                            My vote is for the cooler and less windy race.  I don't mind fluctuating winds but I hate a sustained headwind!


                            Below are my splits for Philly last year.


                            Start 00:00  
                            10k 48:03 7:44 <small>/mi</small>
                            7:28 <small>/mi</small>
                            Half 1:39:35 7:35 <small>/mi</small>
                            7:27 <small>/mi</small>
                            30K 2:20:52 7:33 <small>/mi</small>
                            7:53 <small>/mi</small>
                            Finish 3:20:43 7:39 <small>/mi</small>

                            5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 




                                Darkwave goes out by feel. I can still see her in 2017 (?) running by me at CIM after the first few miles and it just blew my mind someone would speed up so much over the course of a marathon. Still does.



                              That was me too at CIM last year! (Except of course much slower than both of you.)

                              • 1st half: 1:43:50, 7:56 avg 
                              • 2nd half: 1:38:43, 7:33 avg

                              Of course that included a 1:15 stop at mile 8 to pee and get a rock out of my shoe. And the negative split was not by design. I had a 3:20 goal, but approaching race day I wasn't feeling it, so decided to start off closer to 3:25 (7:45-7:50). I picked it up at the halfway point (miles 14-20 were around 7:40), then again after 20 (21-24 ~7:30), then hauled ass for the last 2 (7:17, 7:03). It felt AMAZING. I've never felt so strong in the late stages of a marathon, and of course I was passing a TON of people. Yes I realize there was a lot of downhill at that point, but still.


                              After it was over I regretted not going out more aggressively. I think I could have cut some time off. But who knows how much the slower first half helped me. My previous marathon 6 months prior, I went out at pace for 3:20 right from the get-go; the wheels came off around 19 (assisted by a couple brutal hills) and I finished with an 11 minute positive split. So I was a little gun-shy going into CIM.


                              Pain is my friend

                                Dave- Yes I may die. But on from the heat.


                                Mikkey- Thats right no excusses. Get it done.


                                Fish- The couse is amazing. I have run the marathon 5 times. The weather is always the big question mark. Looks like it will start in the mid 50s and then climb to 70s by the end. I am not too worried about the heat. I do some heat training. If I finished fast, then it will be cooler.


                                RP- I am excited. For it to over that is. I am ready to go back to my long trail runs.

                                ATY 24   141.445 2019 1st

                                Bear 100 22:08 2021 

                                Jackpot 100 Feb 14:59 - 5th

                                St George marathon Oct 2:58

                                ATY 24 130.969 2022 2nd


                                Pulse endurance 12 hour 76.22 1ST CR

                                July Backyard ultra 22 yards Win

                                Sept Bear 100