Forums >Racing>2022 Advanced Racing Thread
Dave-my next planned race is the 1st week in March also,interesting to see how our training matches up.
Lucky I didn't read the no racing advice,I've had a restful week since Chicago so went along to an inter club race today.It's good fun,about 16 clubs and 500 runners doing a 5.2 mile loop,
I had no expectation around time so just ran,got to 5k in 19:35,then faded a bit but think I'd have done 10k in about 39:45 so fine with that 7 days on.
In my downtime I've written out my Tokyo plan so looking forward to starting that in a couple of weeks.
5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39
Mark - Excellent. I looked it up and can't see a course map anywhere but it will be nice to finish at an athletics track. Also looked at previous years' results and it looks likely you'll be out in front running solo. The 5km event was won in 2020 by a 13 year old girl in 19:32! Hopefully the weather is okay, although most races in NZ should be good for you after training in Auckland humidity.
I wouldn't bank on that! Phil Costley who was a 2:13 marathoner and Commonwealth games rep used to live down there, as does Mick Keating who is also pretty good (I think he was in the top 10 at the Auckland HM back January).
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Mark - Excellent. I looked it up and can't see a course map anywhere but it will be nice to finish at an athletics track.
I recommend the Eugene Marathon to anyone who gets a chance. Finishes on the track at iconic Hayward Field.
Dave
Mother of Cats
Remark: I think I found a new gear. I call it, first gear lol. I'm starting to actually enjoy getting some miles in at 8:00 mile pace or slower. Loving logging the higher miles too. I'm on pace for my biggest month ever. Question: Mikkey pointed out that my HR jumped around mile 9 or 10 of the LR even though the pace stayed the same. There is a chance that was just equipment error, my HR monitor in my Garmin has been really screwy lately. I'm going to try to check manually next time. But if we suppose that did happen, what might that mean and how could I fix the issue? Thanks.
Remark: I think I found a new gear. I call it, first gear lol. I'm starting to actually enjoy getting some miles in at 8:00 mile pace or slower. Loving logging the higher miles too. I'm on pace for my biggest month ever.
Question: Mikkey pointed out that my HR jumped around mile 9 or 10 of the LR even though the pace stayed the same. There is a chance that was just equipment error, my HR monitor in my Garmin has been really screwy lately. I'm going to try to check manually next time. But if we suppose that did happen, what might that mean and how could I fix the issue? Thanks.
Once you learn to embrace the Kenyan-esque easy jog, it becomes really zen like, and kinda cool.
As for HR - I looked at your Strava. Personally, I wouldn't give that a second thought. You were at one plateau, and then suddenly jumped up to a second plateau and held it there, with no real change in pace, terrain, etc. That really looks to me like Garmin error.
If this was actually your HR, I'd think it might be dehydration. But if so, you'd know.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
My week:
21 miles running, 7 hours pool-running, and 500 yards swimming.
M: 2 hours pool-running.T: 1 hour pool-running and yogaW: 1 hour pool-runningTh: test run (5x60 seconds jog; 30 seconds walk to see how things felt), 90 minutes pool-running, upper body weights/core.F: 3 miles (10:12), and 90 minutes pool-runningSa: 6 miles (9:46), drills/strides, and upper body weights/core.Su: 12 miles aerobic (9:05), leg strengthwork, and 500 yards recovery swimming.
Mark, great workout! I think you're going to surprise yourself at the HM.
DavePNW, a Thanksgiving HM sounds like great timing for more recovery and a fitness assessment before you start a new cycle.
Steve, so good to hear you sounding more like yourself again. Sounds like you have some good plans taking shape.
Flavio, ugh so sorry to hear about the quad but I agree it can'tbe too bad if you could still run 14 on it.
Merkle, great that the slower easy miles are working so well for you.
DW, how are you feeling post-marathon? Both physically and mentally? Hope the new job was a good switch.
I've decided I don't care about running the HM to see where I'm at because it's a distance I just don't care about. I want to focus on increasing my mileage, exploring ultras, and attempting to get a BQ (3:50 starting next year). So now I'm debating running the full to see where I'm at but running it very conservatively so I don't lose another month of quality running. I'll do a 2:45 LR Friday and I'm hoping that run will give me some clarity.
This week was about 10mi less than I wanted, I missed 2 days of running cause momlife.
5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)
RIP Milkman
Flavio - I think I've had almost every injury in the book when it comes to running. The one I have not is a quad injury. I feel like they're uncommon in the running world. How do you think you got it?
Heart Rate - all this talk of inaccurate reading convinces me I will continue to train without one. Of course, I'm just looking for evidence to confirm my biases.
Mikkey - at some point I've realized it's worth spending money on this kind of stuff. We dedicate so much of our time to the sport, its worth the cost to stay healthy.
merkle - you're going on the same journey regarding pacing that almost everyone here has. Certainly for true recovery runs, which I define as within 24 hours of a workout, you should never exit that "1st gear" as you call it. I often run as slow as MP+2:30 on those, and up to MP+3:00 if it's especially hot or I'm very tired.
darkwave - I won't even ask you what your plans are as I know you won't decide within 1 week of a marathon
ccoak - you've found the right thread if that's your outlook! Mileage is king for the marathon, you are taking the right path.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
This week was all about getting my hamstring right. During my run on Monday, it was so weak and tight, with a pain at 2 out of 10, that I gave myself less than 50% chance of running the marathon. If this was way earlier in the cycle, I wouldn't even have continued running. But the next day, it felt much better, and by Thursday, I knew that it was coming around for good. Although I tend to get injured easily, I actually do recover from those injuries quickly as well (strains are usually 3 days of rest, and even my stress reaction I was running within 4 weeks of it).
The big test for me was my long run Sunday, which went incredibly well. It may have been just because I hadn't done a quality day in 2.5 weeks, but running MP+10% was relatively easy and I even got down to something like MP+5%, which I never do on long runs. My hamstring strains (there were 2 spots) definitely got achy in that run and are sore today, so I'm not 100% past the injury. But assuming nothing weird happens the next 3 weeks, I feel confident I can stand on the Verrazano bridge, ready to go.
I'll probably sign up for a half marathon this Sunday and run it at MP, possibly picking it up the last 2 miles if I feel good, mainly for the aid stations. My biggest concern after my hamstrings holding up is my stomach at NYC, given what happened at Grandma's. This entire cycle, I've been training my stomach to take in big gulps of water at once (11 oz often, which is probably 3-4x what you get in a cup at a race). However, that fell off the rails the past couple of weeks with the injury. I will use the HM to take in a few gels and drink a lot of water to hopefully get my gut back to being used to the full feeling.
Step back week for me after 3 weeks in the 90's if felt like a vacation LOL. Unscheduled rest day Saturday and legs felt very fresh for the LR on Sunday
800s on Wednesday. It was my first time on the track in quite some time and and it felt warm, slow and difficult. Moving forward I need to get back to shorter stuff and hills.
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
I have never run with a HRM, and have no idea what my HR ever is. To each their own.
Cobra Commander Keen
Flavio - Strength training lead to an injury?? That makes me glad I've never stuck with that stuff!
Dave - I've never raced anything after a hard marathon, but my experience in the couple weeks after I may feel completely recovered, but trying a workout has not gone well and I'm rewarded with something akin to a message saying "you don't run that hard right now". Easy stuff feels fine, but harder running just doesn't happen - kinda like that gear should be there but I can't quite make the shift.
Krash - Lack of vert is why I'd need to restrict myself to relatively flat ultras. Heck, it's a 30+ minute highway drive just to get to anything that could be called a "high rise" building around here.
Merkle - Nice week. HR looks like an anomaly to me as well, but I'd second DWave's bit about possible dehydration if it were legit. My Garmin HRM has been quite reliable when I've used it, but I prefer a Polar Verity Sense monitor myself - it's an optical unit that is meant to be used on your upper arm and has been awesome for years.
Caitlin - Very nice LR in there, and a pretty solid week even given the interruption.
JMac - Thrilled the hamstring is going the right way for you, and really nice volume on that week (especially with the killer LR).
Fishy - Those "low" mileage weeks really do feel great, don't they?
Finished out my 2nd highest mileage week of all time - missing tying my highest by about .05mi/80m. That's a tad frustrating by itself, but I'll likely have another shot at beating that mark this week.I may jump into a kinda hilly 15k at the end of next week, but we'll see.I also stopped into my favorite LRS over the weekend and walked out having ordered a pair of Endorphin Pro 3s. Those things feel SOOO nice. Last note: My area is sometimes used my local college teams for LRs thanks to it having plenty of rolling hills, and depending on route selection could be either gravel or asphalt, and during my recovery run Sunday I heard some fast footsteps and looked over to see a guy who looked eastern African just floating by me like it was nothing. A bit later my coach actually came up as well as he was finishing his LR. He told me the guy that just passed me is from Uganda (here for college) and has run 13:3x for 5k at altitude, and "if he's feeling good" has been known to close out his LRs with a couple miles at 4:30/mi / 2:48/km. Absolutely insane.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Mmmm Bop
I totally get the folk that choose not to look at HR as it’s not a big deal and is really just an extra bit of data that you can look at after a run. I find it more useful for tempo/MP runs to check if my goal pace is on track. I have a lot of long term data and the majority of my marathons have been in the 159/162bpm range, but as you say…To each their own!
Milkman - That’s a really impressive long run and hope the hammy behaves. 👍
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Fishy - what is P pace? You can't use Daniels and then throw in random letters!
Keen - its funny that you never see runners where you run, but when you do, it's that. How do you plan to peak for CIM? Your training is so consistent, I have no idea how you peak properly. My schedule is so up and down it's a bit eaiser, but you run 4K+ per year so I don't know how you time it right.
Steve - at some point, we should debrief on your training. There were some long runs in there that were insane, and then your coach had you do like 3 more of them. My opinion is you probably peaked too early, which became evident when you were doing great until your last long run where the cramps started. If I remember correctly, you had (with warmup and cool down) some 22+ mile long runs WITH quality, which to me is crazy for a first time marathoner going for sub 3:20. I feel like those workouts are for guys running sub 2:30, and even that might be generous. I can run some pretty hard "long runs", but I've been at this for a while and I am also running 80-90 MPW, and sitll would never attempt what your coach had you doing. Just to be clear - this is not criticizing, but this is along the lines of your easy runs as I think I was one the first guys to point that out a while ago and I think you've come to realize it was way too fast even though your coach didn't really stop you from doing it. I was rooting for you so hard this past cycle and I feel like your coach blew it. Of course, this only matters if you're going for another marathon.
I know Mikkey says fire your coach which riles people up, but there at least needs to be a serious sit down of what he's doing with someone trying to run sub 3:20 for his first marathon who is running 60 MPW or so. Put another way - I bet you could have ran a 3:25 in training if you just kept going on some of your runs. That means something isn't right.
Hot Weather Complainer
JMac - I have my first meeting with my coach tonight (apart from at the pub post-race). I am starting to lean towards having peaked too early too, but I don't understand why that would lead to cramp on tapered legs rather than fading or crashing in the last 10km. This is probably the one you're talking about:
https://www.strava.com/activities/7705746031
Another 4.6km (to equal the distance in Melbourne) and I'm still well under 3:30. Plus I finished that feeling strong so could possibly have gone quicker in the last 5km "easy" block than I did (then the extra 4.6km). As I said in the other thread, I plan to slow down even more next cycle (I am 95% sure I'm going for Christchurch in April 2023 now) and that also may have cost me. He was basically giving me the same runs that he was doing, with slightly slower quality blocks as his goal was about 10 mins quicker than mine. But he's run lots of marathons and some ultras. I felt that the taper would take care of any fatigue but maybe not. I also think I probably over hydrated and peed out some of the good stuff. Maybe I do need to try a different coach, I'm not sure yet. I don't want to suddenly change everything when there was probably something 1% off.
I'll see what he says tonight, hopefully he's done a review to prepare for this session.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
J-Mac LOL!! I was referring to the fact that I have to "P" at least once per Marathon so any run close to that pace is my "P-ee" pace
Glad you're checking though.....