Forums >Racing>2022 Advanced Racing Thread
I just signed up for the NYC Half in March. My wife almost divorced me (her exact quote was "if you put any serious training into this I'm going to murder you) I forgot to mention: I saw slammin/nimmals on the course cheering. I didn't know he was even out there, and if you've ever run NYC, the chances of seeing someone in the crowd is basically zero. I just happened to be running right by him, heard him shout out my name, and I gave him a fist bump. That was the biggest surprise of the race. It really pumped me up, even though it was mile 25 and I was cooked.
I just signed up for the NYC Half in March. My wife almost divorced me (her exact quote was "if you put any serious training into this I'm going to murder you)
I forgot to mention: I saw slammin/nimmals on the course cheering. I didn't know he was even out there, and if you've ever run NYC, the chances of seeing someone in the crowd is basically zero. I just happened to be running right by him, heard him shout out my name, and I gave him a fist bump. That was the biggest surprise of the race. It really pumped me up, even though it was mile 25 and I was cooked.
You want to talk about someone who could get things going on the threads!! Nimmals was almost as good at stirring the pot as he was running. Was he a high mileage guy? Funny I remember his posts but not much about his training
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Intl. correspondent
Keen- Agreed, anybody taking a subject as dogma cannot be argued with.
Indeed there were tons of foreigners in that race, Portugal is the current Iceland when it comes to tourism it seems.
DW - It's good to hear you're doing well.
Jmac/DW - Daniel do Nascimento trains in Kenya, word on the street is that he was in a monster shape. To me, his strategy was sound, he had to run faster to open a gap, then let the others have to run faster when they were way more depleted from the heat later on.However he probably went faster than planned, in an alternate world he would keep that one minute gap instead of 2 and perhaps would have reached podium. Had he stayed with the pack he would definitely not medal.
Jmac - I also had a bit of nausea after the 10k which thankfully passed after taking an Omeprazol pill. There's no world in which you would be able to dehydrate enough. You definitely suffer way more from the heat than most, so no warm races longer than a 5k for you anymore.That's the big problem with our approach of setting a fixed deadline (race day) and going for it no matter what. I feel like in an ideal world you'd train and then when you feel your peak is approaching you'd sign up and race like 2 weeks later.Also, we're not convinced, this is your like 4th or 5th retirement speech, you're like MMA fighters in that regard 😂
You'll probably buy the baby stroller so mamma Mac can do her stuff while you're out there for 2 and a half hours.That reminds me of one forumite who once wrote something like this:
Him: Darling, I'm going out to a brothelHis wife: Oh yeah, then why are you dressed in running clothing
Longboat - if you find Lisbon hilly wait till you reach Porto 😈
CH - "Organs for sale" haha, awesome!, you definitely fit with this group. I hope you can figure out the insomnia thing.
Mmerk - no, you won't lose your peak, you can miss it however when you reach your peak before race day. To avoid that you will not do anything too close to race effort till then.I think your plan of doing plenty of easy running with some longer stretches at race pace is very sound. Maybe peak at 10 miles at race pace.Also, re: Jack Daniels, I highly recommend purchasing his book and reading it cover to cover. After you do that you will probably find yourself coming back to the book from time to time looking for something specific like a schedule or to re-read one of his principles.For what is worth, I find it also worth it to read Pfitzinger's advanced marathoning book as well as the "Hansons marathon method".These books are VERY cheap when you consider how much info they pack and how simple they are to read.
Mikkey - That moose mug is GLORIOUS!
me - I'm feeling super tired and destroyed after the 10k race. I'm happy to see I don't have any workouts scheduled for this week. Hopefully I'll be well recovered by Thursday or Friday.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Flavio Thanks for the input and references. I'll make it a winter project to read at least one of those, probably starting with Jack Daniels.
Mikkey I mean $50 is cheaper than any coach out there I'd imagine. I don't think there's any hope of me doing a Moose Mug until I get close to 40, or older though.
Mark It kills me that you are approaching summer over there lol.
Cobra Commander Keen
Caitlin - Thanks! Last year before CIM I probably averaged mid/upper 80s ahead of the race with 3x 100 mile weeks (only two in a row). Over the past 10-12 weeks I think I've been averaging around 95.What is it with this string of bad weather for marathons? Chicago was good, but everything since then has seemed like it has had really bad weather.
Nice work building the mileage back up, and I hope you enjoyed the trip with the family.
JMac - I got a legitimate chuckle out of your wife's comment. And that comment is a really good reason for high mileage/intensity training. "Oh, no, babe, I'm not doing serious training. I did 90mpw and two workouts before, and now I'm only doing 80 and one workout".
Moose Mugs - I definitely want one. The only issues are that I have to get both faster and older to get one. And I'm not sure which of those will be more difficult.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
RIP Milkman
Mikkey - "I'll be back" is exactly how I feel right now. I literally thought "the milkman is dead" as I had to walk on the course at one point. I was so disappointed in myself. Have I lost the ability to push? Is this all in my head? But then I remember how I pushed for my half PR earlier this year and no, it was just really shitty weather and my terrible stomach that got to me. I want redemption at NYC, but also I want a Moose Mug, so I may have to go to CIM to get guaranteed cold weather. It seems like I can't get down more than maybe 16 oz of water in a marathon, so anything north of 60 at this point will do me in (which CIM almost never gets to).
Either way though, I'm embarrassed given your appointed title for me. The milkman will be back. But for now, he is dead and I will have to resurrect him at some point.
Fishy - I miss nimmals posting on here. He's a really good dude in person, as always, online persona seems very different than reality. I enjoy the few times I see him each year at local race. And his training was always very high: he's a complete beat and we think he may have beaten his MM time by the most for regular posters on these threads (17 minutes if I remember correctly)
Flavio - there's going out fast, and then there's going out at suicide pace. Hitting the WR mark at the 10K mat, when you have the bridge to climb for the entire first mile in that weather, is suicidal. I don't think he necessarily needed to stay with the pack. But it's not like he was just running aggressively.
And yeah, I realized in the last month I'm addicted to running. There are so many times I hate it and don't want to get out the door. But when the prospect of actually quitting started approaching, I realized I'm not able to. The highs of the good runs just can't be matched.
On the heat - yep, this convinces me Chicago is never in my future.
mmerkle - I agree on getting Pfitz and Daniels. I bought Daniels at first off a recommendation on this forum years ago just to follow his plans, but what I realized was the real good stuff (as Flavio points out) is actually in the meat of the book. The same thing is true with Pfitz. I feel like once you read both of their books, you can start crafting training plans that fit what you want. I've never had a coach and have cobbled together all this information from those two books, these forums, and other places. It's really helpful when you want to do things like run a condensed cycle, hit injury mid cycle, or just something out of the blue. When you just used a canned plan and don't understand the purpose of each run, it's hard to adjust on the fly without a coach.
keen - that's almost exactly the conversation I had. "Don't worry, I'm only going to be running like 50-60 mpw". Her response was "I just don't want to hear the words 'I have to run' anytime in the next few months." That's something I feel like I can commit to: when you aren't trying to fit 3 hour long runs into your weekends and you can't miss it, it's a lot easier to juggle life and running. She cares a lot less about the weekday run commutes. It's the disappearing for hours on end on the weekends that gets her (especially because I'm not a morning person).
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Hot Weather Complainer
This is one thing I find really weird. I really have to push my partner to go and do things she enjoys without me, while I love a bit of me time. I know it's different with kids in the mix, but why would someone not want you doing something that is clearly important to you? To be fair, the 3 hour runs are a big commitment - I'm more of a morning person than you but definitely won't start at 5:30am, more like 8:30am, and there goes half the day. With the other half pretty much written off due to fatigue anyway. Just make sure you say "I really need to run for my mental health" instead of "I have to run".
It's sounds like you ticked off a couple of stages of grief just on your walk home, which makes sense given the race went like that almost completely due to the weather. It took me at least 3 weeks to get to the "I'll be back" stage.
I think we are similar in our sweat levels and saltiness, I'm just lucky not to have the same stomach issues. It does make me think my Chicago goal might not make sense. I really want to run NYC - I think I'm going to aim for 2024. The travel and course profile mean I'll probably have no goal except enjoy the experience.
A young kiwi guy, Matt Baxter, came 12th in NY in his debut marathon. 2:17 is pretty solid considering it's his first and the weather and course.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
Mmmm Bop
Mikkey - "I'll be back" is exactly how I feel right now. I literally thought "the milkman is dead" as I had to walk on the course at one point. I was so disappointed in myself. Have I lost the ability to push? Is this all in my head? But then I remember how I pushed for my half PR earlier this year and no, it was just really shitty weather and my terrible stomach that got to me. I want redemption at NYC, but also I want a Moose Mug, so I may have to go to CIM to get guaranteed cold weather. It seems like I can't get down more than maybe 16 oz of water in a marathon, so anything north of 60 at this point will do me in (which CIM almost never gets to). Either way though, I'm embarrassed given your appointed title for me. The milkman will be back. But for now, he is dead and I will have to resurrect him at some point.
You gave it your best shot and I still think it was a decent result considering the weather and it’s not the easiest course. I hope you stick around as you’re a very knowledgable poster and you showed great character during one of the lockdowns in 2021? when you mapped out your half TT and made sure it was the legit distance. That’s the sort of thing that impresses me more than any result. 👍
And yeah, Slammin was always very entertaining especially in the RWOL sub3 thread and I remember his first attempt at a MM and missing it by a think a second! Longboat might remember as he knows everything. But his attack on Cal was just so utterly bizarre (and untrue) and I still can’t figure out why he would’ve said it. 🤷♂️
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
It kinda goes both ways. My wife is very tolerant and supportive, but that's partly because I'm out of bed at 5:30am on the weekends to get my run in and generally back before her and my daughter are even out of bed. She would be pissed at me if I decided to run another marathon but that's because she knows as well as me that there's likely a lot more downside than upside (if you like marathons, good for you, but they're not my gig).
He was only a few seconds behind Jared Ward who I think ran for the US at the 2016 Olympics? Not bad company to be in.
There was a good discussion about courses with a few of my running clubmates and if you want a local reference point, the consensus seems to be that NYC is a bit harder than Auckland, overall. NYC has a little more elevation gain, and you cop some climbs late in the race (5th Ave), whereas Auckland you're basically done with hills by halfway.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Thankfully I'm with an equestrian chick so she can't complain too much about time (and money) spent on my interests. I have had times when my routine is quite set and intense, so it's nice post-marathon to be able to move runs around to fit in with other plans. With summer approaching I'll need to become more of a morning person, which is much easier when it's light at 5am.
P.S. I don't like marathons but I'm hoping to find a way to like them more...after Southern Lakes which felt like the perfect race that will be hard to repeat, I sort of feel like I have the half worked out now - or that no matter how many more I do I'll be lucky to repeat that day. Obviously after Melbourne I feel completely different about the marathon which is why I want to try again. If it goes the same way, it's hard to imagine I'll want to put myself through it a third time though. I actually really enjoyed the training side of it.
When I was running higher mileage training cycles it wasn’t so much the amount of time but more the recovery aspect. With a 3 hour run I’d be back and showered by 10am and the wife would still be in bed with the dogs reading the papers. It’s the recovery that comes into play, ie lack of energy afterwards and needing more sleep.
But overall if you’re a solo runner then it doesn’t take that much of your day up. Someone running 75mpw at an average of 8min/mile is only 10 hours running per week. I would be gone for that amount of time during one golf outing.
Thankfully I'm with an equestrian chick so she can't complain too much about time (and money) spent on my interests. I have had times when my routine is quite set and intense, so it's nice post-marathon to be able to move runs around to fit in with other plans. With summer approaching I'll need to become more of a morning person, which is much easier when it's light at 5am. P.S. I don't like marathons but I'm hoping to find a way to like them more...after Southern Lakes which felt like the perfect race that will be hard to repeat, I sort of feel like I have the half worked out now - or that no matter how many more I do I'll be lucky to repeat that day. Obviously after Melbourne I feel completely different about the marathon which is why I want to try again. If it goes the same way, it's hard to imagine I'll want to put myself through it a third time though. I actually really enjoyed the training side of it.
Yeah... equestrian is pretty hard to top when it comes to time and monetary investment required!
I definitely get that you have a point to prove on the marathon though after your Melbourne experience. Personally, I've dug myself into a couple of very big holes from marathons and I have no desire to risk doing that a third time for the sake of maybe a few minutes.
IDK I will be surprised if I top my 1:09 at Southern Lakes HM in 2021, that was quite possibly the best race I could ever run, but I still enjoy HMs a lot and they'll be my race focus for the next little while. It is a fun distance and one I really enjoy. Nelson was a good reminder also of how much I enjoy checking out new races and there are a lot of different HMs around. Plus, most of them have kids races too so I can race the half and then chase my daughter around the 2km course. No way I'd be doing that after a marathon.
Yeah, I definitely feel like I have a bigger point to prove than you - I left up to 20 minutes out there...
If I do nail a good one in April I'll probably do the same as you, look for new and interesting races to do. Doing NYC has always been a dream that I never thought was really possible, so I'll start looking towards 2024 after April 16. I do think all the marathon training will help me in the half so I will have a real crack at one maybe in Spring next year.
Mikkey - You're right, the time spent running doesn't seem like much. The lack of will and energy to do much post-run is probably the biggest factor although only really applies to the long run. If I still played cricket that would take up way more time than running every week.
JMac - When you're updating the front page with the results from the weekend, can you please add Queenstown Half for November 19? Goal: Sub 1:35
I think you hit the nail on the head in two ways:
1) Very different with kids. She didn't really care pre kids because it had zero burden on her. Now, if I disappear for 2.5+ hours, that means 2.5+ hours of no help.
2) I really can't wake up early especially for big long runs. I'm getting better at it (see my run commutes) but I will never be like Keen where he's out the door at 4:45 am. She's already told me if I was able to get up super early and just go for my run, she wouldn't care.
She's been incredibly supportive, probably more than I would have if I had the kid burden in reverse. I have zero complaints. She's totally cool with me training for shorter distances: it's the marathon grind of running 70+ MPW where she gets anxious about it, understandably so.
Yeah, I definitely feel like I have a bigger point to prove than you - I left up to 20 minutes out there... If I do nail a good one in April I'll probably do the same as you, look for new and interesting races to do. Doing NYC has always been a dream that I never thought was really possible, so I'll start looking towards 2024 after April 16. I do think all the marathon training will help me in the half so I will have a real crack at one maybe in Spring next year.
I think we have a big continent of people trying to do NYC 2024!!! Very exciting. I'll definitely be in for that.
JMac Is it possible to establish a way to reciprocate for that time? As in find some other time when you can watch the kids for a few hours while she does her thing? I understand where you're coming from with mornings though. It feels so unnatural.