2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 467 times)

Fishyone


    Just sending out bib for Philly.  Bib # 1536

    https://www.philadelphiamarathon.com/tracking

     

    Taper madness is official.  Thought I felt a little sore throat this morning...

    5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 40:13 (2014), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

    Mikkey


    Mmmm Bop

      Does anyone know any tricks for appetite suppression during tapering? One issue I seem to have is when I cut back on mileage my appetite stays the same, which is a problem obviously since I don't want my weight to change. I know they say caffeine suppresses appetite but my caffeine consumption is already through the roof.

       

      I don’t know your normal diet, but I go with protein/unrefined carbs and drink water instead of any sports drinks. I personally find a 3 egg omelette or scrambled egg for breakfast is great and stops the hunger pangs and something like a baked potato with tuna and salad for dinner. Avoid any junk stuff like crisps, biscuits etc. It’s only for a couple of weeks so stay strong!

      Steve - I think you made the right decision, but if it isn’t…then blame the Milkman   You’ve got a lot of potential and I’m looking forward to seeing a big marathon PB from you next year. 👍

      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

      SteveChCh


      Hot Weather Complainer

         

        Steve - I think you made the right decision, but if it isn’t…then blame the Milkman   You’ve got a lot of potential and I’m looking forward to seeing a big marathon PB from you next year. 👍

         

        Thanks Mikkey - I'm confident it's the right move, but also glad I sat on it for 6 weeks after the race.

        Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

        Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

        Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

        CommanderKeen


        Aspiring Hobby Jogger

          Steve - Good call on Signal.

          5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

           

          Upcoming Races:

           

          CIM - 12/4

          CommanderKeen


          Aspiring Hobby Jogger

            Toyota Music Factory Half Race Report


            Ever since signing up for this race in August my coach had a note next to it in my training plan "tune up, ~95% effort". A bit disappointing in that I would have loved an all-out race and a shiny new PR before CIM, but I decided to trust the process. Prior to the race my coach did amend this somewhat, saying to keep to this effort for the first 15k, but then giving me the option of "opening things up" if I felt good after that point.


            This was originally going to be a family trip, but DD1 had three soccer games re-scheduled for this same weekend. Given that these games were all against teams that were fighting for a top 2 spot in the league (and thus promotion come the spring season) the whole family ended up going different directions - DW and DD1 east to Tulsa, DDs 2 & 3 with my parents to the west, and me south to Texas.


            The weather on race day was just about perfect - overcast and 37F/2.7C with a 5mph/8kmh wind.


            I arrived in PLENTY of time to grab a primo parking spot, pick up my bib and goodies, then sit in the warm car until it was time for a quick warm up and change to proper racing shoes (Endorphin Pro 3).


            The 10k and half marathon races started together, so I lined up in the second row giving some space to anyone running the 10k. I heard one guy say he was looking to run 1:16 (while wearing full tights, a LS shirt, another shirt over than, plus a buff around his neck he certainly didn't look like a person who could run that fast), and another guy who wanted to run 1:15, so thoughts of sneaking a "W" immediately left my mind.


            The gun goes off and so do all of the racers. Everyone around me seemed to have lined up pretty darn well - no one passed me and I only passed a couple people in the first mile.


            There were a few rollers in the first couple miles, but aside from a "pedestrian" 6:43 first mile the other hilly miles were pretty much right on target at ~6:30/mi. Normally I'd back off on hills a touch, but a nice benefit of intentionally holding back some


            I zoned out and missed lapping my watch at mile 2 and never saw the mile 3 marker, though I don't doubt it was there - this was one of the best marked courses I've ever run.


            Just before mile 3 the 10k runners split to the other side of a center median and I passed the only runner I could see in front of me. From the conversations I heard prior the start I knew there had to be at least 2 people ahead of me, but they (and anyone else in the half) were so far ahead of me that I couldn't see them over the next hill.


            I'm just cruising along and nearly to mile 4 when I become conscious of footsteps behind me - the guy I had passed about a mile before is only a few steps away. Given that I wasn't going all-out, why not slow down a tad and get someone to run with? I slow down just a bit and ask over my shoulder if he has a goal time in mind.
            This guy doesn't hear me clearly and speeds up a bit to match the pace I've been running, and I repeat my question.
            "1:26 is my goal, 1:25 would be awesome but I don't know if I'm in that kind of shape".


            A glance at my watch (with the "Race Screen" CIQ data field up) tells me that we're bang on 1:25 pace at that moment, so I tell him "you'd better be in 1:25 pace because you're running it now".


            My new running buddy, who looks a little familiar (what are the odds I know anyone running a race that's a 3.5+ hour drive from my home?), isn't deterred so we motor along and make a transition from roads to a sidewalk that quickly turns into a paved multi-use path.


            New Running Buddy and I chat away on this rather windy but mostly flat path, still far enough behind anyone else that we have no idea how many people are ahead of us.
            I take a gel at mile 5 as part of a nutrition test for CIM, which goes down perfectly well even without having timed it to match with a water stop.


            We're near mile 5.5 when we see the leader heading back towards us, and a couple minutes later two other guys running side-by-side (one of which is the overdressed guy). I make a note of our elapsed time when this pair passes by a sign by the path to help figure out how far back we are.


            Just a few seconds later the path curves a bit to the right and as some trees clear I see that we're right at the turnaround with no runners that those previous 3 ahead of us. I speed up a tad to create some extra room for New Running Buddy and myself to go around the cone without us hitting each other, then drop back immediately after making that turn. We pass the sign I used as my timing marker 40 seconds after the pair in 2nd/3rd place.
            "40 seconds isn't too much to make up in a bit over 7 miles" I think to myself. I figure at best those guys will maintain their pace to the end, meanwhile I know I've got a good deal of room to increase the effort to make up that time in the final few miles - my biggest concern is running out of road to chase them down.


            Shortly after this we begin to encounter the rest of the runners behind us, none of which seem to be close enough to possibly catch us. New Running Buddy and I have been keeping up a chorus of "thank yous" to all of the race volunteers and police who are handling traffic at intersections and we add "looking good", "great job", "keep it up", and various other race platitudes as we see other runners.


            Over the next mile or so it becomes clear that the pair of runners ahead of us are both slowing down and going through a breakup. I calculate out that we've gained 20 seconds off the closer of the two runners, and 10 over the other guy. Making progress!


            Just after mile 8 we unexpectedly encounter a hazard on the course in the form of a wooden bridge over a creek. It's humid enough and cold enough here that the bridge has frosted over and footing was quite sketchy.
            About this point New Running Buddy asks me what my 5k PR is, and I return the question. "Great", I think. "This guy's 35 seconds faster than me over 5k."
            I also find out that a bit more than a month earlier New Running Buddy ran 3:30 in Chicago, owing to under fueling.


            About mile 9 we pass the guy in 3rd place - Overdressed Guy - who seems to be crashing pretty hard and we're also only about 10 seconds behind Other Dude as well.


            Right along here New Running Buddy and I have a chat about the future of the race. I say I'm going to open things up by mile 9.5, and he wants "to feel good at mile 11". Knowing that we're likely to separate soon, I finally introduce myself, and he tells me his name as well (Jeremy). Then comes the surprising question from him: "did you run the Wurst Race?" (my favorite HM in a small, out-of-the way German town in Texas).


            "Wait a minute, you're THAT Jeremy??"
            I knew this guy looked familiar, but I certainly wasn't expecting to actually know him, let alone have race against him years before.


            We're passed mile 9.5 now, so I drop the pace a little bit, moving up to actual HM effort, and we pass Other Dude and put ourselves in 2nd/3rd place as we also make a transition to proper roads again. As an added bonus, we've also made a turn that has us going with the wind - the headwind wasn't an issue at all before as there was more than enough tree cover to block it.


            Neither one of us are talking much at this point given the increase in effort. We've averaged 6:28/mi thus far, but mile 10 comes in at 6:13, mile 11 at 6:15, & 6:08 for mile 12.

            Once we close mile 12 I decide to drop the hammer for two reasons:

            1) Going sub-6 pace for the final 1.1mi sounds like fun
            2) Even though (judging by our breathing) Jeremy has been working harder than I have this entire time he also has a much higher top speed than I do, so if it comes down to the last 800m or less he may well outkick me.


            And thus I crank things up to about 5k effort, pulling ahead of Jeremy, now having to run around some of the back-of-the-pack 10kers. After 1/2 mile he catches up and runs along side me for a few seconds before dropping back again. I recall him saying earlier how he didn't know if he was in 1:25 shape or not, and here we are sprinting to well under a 1:24 half. "What BS was that?" & "Keep it up!" I tell myself as I enter that tunnel vision mode I got during my 5k PR race over the summer.


            I fly by a volunteer and very shortly thereafter hear her yelling to Jeremy "Catch him! Catch him!".

            "HA!" I think. "If you only knew how the race had gone so far!".


            The last 1/4 mile went by a number of buildings with entrances to parking lots that all looked the same - "Where's the damn finish??"
            Finally that last parking lot entrance comes into view, a police officer stops traffic that is wanting to cross and I move across the finish line mats (not a single photo of me reaching for my watch!).
            5:47 mile 13, 5:40 pace final bit.1:23:33 overall.


            I do finally stop my watch and suck wind for a bit and see Jeremy crossing the line maybe 5-6 seconds behind me.
            We catch our breaths a bit, compliment each other on the race, chat just a bit, then head our separate ways.


            So far this has definitely been the favorite race I've run. I've never had an opportunity to work with someone for so much of a race before, and then to close the race as strongly as this with someone to compete against directly was just a ton of fun.
            It wasn't until JMac mentioned it that I realized I was only 12 seconds off my official PR (though I still say I have valid reasons to think that course was long). While it's mildly irritating to know that a PR was within reach like that, at the same time it's just really nice to know that my fitness has improved substantially even just since April when I set that PR and that I'm in a really good spot to PR the 5k at a turkey trot and then the marathon at CIM the next week.

            5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

             

            Upcoming Races:

             

            CIM - 12/4

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              The biggest back to back I have done in the past was 10/25. I never felt the need for them. I did well without them and really didn't have the team. I am making time. 3:30 am start is not easy and then work a 10 hour day. Training for a 50 is the same as a 100. Find a race that has a 50 and 100. Then race day tell the wife they put you in the wrong race. Guess you get to run the 100. lol

               

              Keen- I do the back to backs. But don't know if I like them. It is crazy to think I did 55 miles in 3 days last week. I feel like thy are getting easier and I am recovering well from them. I was able to do 9 miles Monday and felt fresh. This week is going to be a bigger back to back. 17/23. Bring on the good times.

               

               

              I have a feeling she would show up and cut the wrist band off me at an aid station. Maybe late in the race when I'm tired and close to finishing. Just to teach me a lesson. She's a planner.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 52.45

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

              flavio1980


              Intl. correspondent

                Mmerkle/Keen - What Keen said. Plus, according to the book "The Athlete's gut" protein satiates better because it takes longer to leave your stomach when compared to carbohydrates.

                Keen - Thanks for the race report. I'm glad you didn't run it all out so I can still hover my half PR over you 😁
                j/k, it's incredible just how close our PRs are. Also, I had a very similar experience in my half in Scandicci in Feb 2020, I ran with the pacer group at 1h24 pace and then blasted a couple of 3:45Ks at the end (6 min mile pace). One year later I ran 1h22. I have no doubt you're pretty close to that if not better.
                FYI, the book also states that there's research indicating that a low carb diet hinders your performance on shorter races (especially under 30 minutes) but is fine the longer the race goes (I don't think this will change your mind 😂)
                Also, thanks for the recommendation, I'm doing some research and I think I found an online store in Germany that carries that jacket.
                Yay for the absence of import taxes when purchasing something within the European Union.

                Steve - I use signal to talk to my siblings, they're the only ones I managed to bring over. There's no point in trying to convince my aunts to migrate heh.

                Fishy - here are my wishes that it's a very fun and enjoyable race for you.

                RP - LOL at your comment about your wife 😈

                PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                Up next: 10K Family race

                Tool to generate Strava weekly

                Running Problem


                Problem Child

                  I love the news about the guy who smoked during his recent marathon. I'm wondering what brand he smokes. Looks like Winston golds. Perhaps something more locally available though.

                   

                  Being the stalker I am....I found out he has run a 50k 90km in 12 hours.

                  Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                  VDOT 52.45

                  5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                  mmerkle


                    Keen Awesome race report. I had a similar HM race once a long time ago. It's awesome being able to work with someone like that and then battle it out at the end.

                     

                    I appreciate the nutrition advice from everyone. Sounds like I have an excuse to eat more (organic) peanut butter lol, one of my favorite things. I'll make an effort to increase my protein intake while avoiding obsession over weight loss.

                     

                    RP Just saw that recently lol. I wonder how fast you'd have to be to be a famous stoner marathon runner. I'd like to think the stoners can outrun the cig smokers, someone's gotta represent. Let the war begin!

                     

                    Fishy Looking forward to your performance.

                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      mmeerkle Just make sure you pick a state tolerant of such things. Top of the list would be CIM for obvious reasons (it's the easiest marathon to run, and it's in the greatest State in the Union.)

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 52.45

                      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                      JMac11


                      RIP Milkman

                        I had never heard of Signal before this. Seems smart. I will say it's a case of marketing genius how Apple has cornered the market in the US. They use outdated shitty SMS service, and then have convinced people that their service is "better" because they make all non-Apple users a different color in their messaging system. That's how you get a scenario where teenagers are forced to buy Apple products so they're not that "loser" kid who shows up as a different color, and they all think it's because Apple is superior!

                         

                        Fishy - saw another thread on Reddit about the cold weather. People drive me crazy! Best of luck this weekend.

                         

                        Keen - great race report. Maybe it's a good thing you didn't know about your PR as you would have pushed too early? Who knows. I'm probably just as nervous for your CIM as you are. One thing I think you'll need is like a mental prep so that if things get hard early, you don't immediately spiral into "oh no, not again" mode. Something I'm super worried about with my next marathon so I thought I'd throw it over into your head to start considering.

                         

                        merkle - I don't change my diet much. I think you still burn the same amount of calories even though you're not running as much. I think the reverse is also true: you don't immediately start burning more calories when you start running. Your metabolism is more like a slow moving ship. I wouldn't worry about it.

                         

                        Steve - thanks for the push. I didn't really want to write one given how badly it went, but I'll do it. Sometimes it's fun reading the bloodbaths.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                         

                        JMac11


                        RIP Milkman

                          2022 NYC Marathon

                           

                          Well thanks to Steve, you can now all read this horror show

                           

                          Pre-Race

                           

                          We all know the story now: the race forecast 7 days out started showing that it was going to be a bad weather day: way too warm/humid. NYC historically has great weather for the marathon. The average high temperature is 57 degrees. At 11 am, when you're about 2/3 done through the race, the temperature range with 90% confidence is 43 to 63 degrees. So 9 out of 10 times, you get good/great weather.

                           

                          Not this year! It turned out to be the hottest NYC marathon since they moved the race to November in 1986. On top of that, it was very humid: dew points were in the low 60s. We got to a Kiwi Point between 135-140 for the middle/end portion of the race, a range I hadn't seen in weeks.

                           

                          On top of that, I had no idea what kind of shape I was in. My half marathon tune up, which is my go to measure of what my MP should be, was cut short by my hamstring injury. Additionally, I never got a lot of LT workouts in (for some reason this cycle, I failed a bunch of them). So I had to just make a best guess off of MP workouts, which put me in something like 2:38 on a flat course. Taking into account the NYC hills, I thought 2:39:59 was a great goal in perfect weather. Given the forecast, I told myself my new goal was 2:44:59.

                           

                          I decided to get to the bus earlier than usual this year, as my last 2 NYC marathons have been a disaster from a timing perspective: the last one I was at I was just getting off the bus when my corral opened, even though I got to the bus line 2.5 hours before my corrals were even supposed to open! This time, I was so early that I just whisked through the line and got to Staten Island about 2.5 hours before the race started.

                           

                          On a more cool note, NYRR has this "local competitive" corral that allows entry if you a) are on a local team and b) have a time-qualifying time. Once I got there, I was very happy I went through the trouble to get the forms all filled out. It was a fenced off area with a catering of bagels, water, and coffee. There were also port-a-potties for our own use. I found a nice tree to sit against and read a newspaper over the next hour or so. The other great thing about the corral is they walk you right to the start line ahead of everyone else. I literally was in the third row of people at the NYC marathon, a race with 50K people. That was a unique experience I'll never forget.

                           

                          One side note about pre-race cooling: I tried absolutely everything. I was munching on an ice slurry in the start corral, I soaked my shirt in an ice water mix, and also had an ice-water towel I put over my head. I don't think it really did anything. I wasn't even particularly cold standing in the corral. Probably not really worth it for future races. Maybe just a local 5K where you can sit in your car with AC on full blast?

                           

                          1st 10K (all these via official course markers): 38:15 (6:09 Pace)

                           

                          The first 2 miles went like every NYC marathon goes: a bunch of people stupidly passed me going up the bridge, and then even MORE people passed me going down the bridge. I thought maybe the heat would cause people to back off, but I guess not. It's the cardinal sin of both Boston and NYC: DO NOT BLOW YOUR RACE ON THE EARLY DOWNHILLS.

                           

                          Anyway, going in I told myself that mile 4 would probably be my key mile. That is the point in a race where I've usually settled in enough that I start creeping up too much in pace. I've found in previous marathons that whatever I run around this point, that if I back it off about 5 seconds per mile, that's the pace I can run for the race. Well, sure enough, that came in at 6:01. I knew I needed to back off a hair with the heat off of that, so that told me 6:10ish would be good on the flat sections. Accounting for the hills, that should get me right around 2:43 or 2:44.

                           

                          Not much to note here otherwise. I did plan on getting water at every water stop, except those that matched when I wanted to take a gel, which was 5/10/15/20. I had prepped all summer for this exact thing. Instead of taking in a bit of water here and there, during the summer I would take down 10-12 oz of water all at once during my runs. After a few tries at this, my stomach adjusted. This was all after Grandma's where I thought the issue was my stomach didn't like how much water I was taking in.

                           

                          2nd 10K: 38:53 (6:15 Pace)

                           

                          I saw my wife/daughter at mile 8, which is where I currently live. That was a great boost. After that, we turned onto the craziest street of NYC, Lafayette Street. I will say, I know people talk about the Boston crowds, but until you run down this street, it's hard to compare. It was INSANE this year. I think it was a combination of the very warm weather and that NYC hadn't had a full capacity marathon in 3 years. This repeated throughout the course: I felt like it was the best crowd I had ever seen. People were just going nuts, and I saw things posted afterwards about how inspired some of the spectators were, something we just take for granted as serious runners. I say this even as I realized after the race that I wasn't really drawing off the crowd support because I was so focused during the race (a takeaway I'll address later).

                           

                          One other cool (literally) thing that happened was they started handing out bags of ice at this point. I grabbed one and tried to do everything i could to keep myself cool. There was some awesome camaraderie with the guys around me. If someone had a bag of ice, they'd always ask if someone near them wanted it next, so that we could all get use out of it.

                           

                          Right around mile 10, I noticed my pace was slowing. I didn't think too much about it, as I was intentionally slowing down at water stops to make sure I got all my water down, something I haven't done historically. I knew this shouldn't really be costing me that much time, but I didn't want to think too much about it.

                           

                          I made the conclusion around mile 12 that I was just being lazy. I was so concerned about how the heat would impact me that perhaps I was letting the effort sag too much. It's a clear point in the race where this happens: not close enough to the finish to push, but definitely getting into the part where you need to concentrate.

                           

                           3rd 10K: 39:21 (6:20 Pace)

                           

                          I came through the half at 1:21:31. That's damn near perfect of what I wanted to run! I knew the back end has more hills, so this was definitely right on pace for that sub 2:45 I was aiming for.

                           

                          I head up the Queensboro bridge, which is mile 16, and I am just cruising by folks. Wow I feel good. This was a huge confidence boost. I still went up at a 6:35 pace, so it's not like I was overdoing it, but I knew I was in good shape. We go down the bridge, onto 1st Ave. This clocks in at 6:26. Weird. I tell myself again I'm being lazy, you need to concentrate and get back onto target.

                           

                          I clock in mile 18 at 6:09. I'm back on target! I feel good...

                           

                          4th 10K (8:03 Pace)

                           

                          It's mile 19, and about halfway through it, it's like a fucking switch just goes. My god do I feel nauseous. My pace starts slowing a little bit, and then it feels like I have half energy.

                           

                          WHAT THE FUCK JUST HAPPENED???

                           

                          I record mile 19 in 6:32. And I realize I'm not going to make it without vomiting. I am so pissed because the last few miles have been great, but my stomach has turned on me once again, and it's like all of my energy was just sucked out of my body.

                           

                          I know I have to walk. I stop, and immediately start burping a lot. I have to try to get this out of my system.

                           

                          And at this point, it hits me. I am INSANELY thirsty. Like, coming back from a run in the summer where you're willing to drink dirty pond water that may have pesticide run-off in it thirsty. I've never felt this thirsty at the end of a marathon, but I still have 7 miles to go!

                           

                          This is the point I realized that I'm so dehydrated that this race is over. There is no way I can get down enough water to get out of this zone and somehow keep my stomach under control. This is exactly why I've always though the latest guidance to "drink to thirst" is bullshit, at least for me: I cannot tell how thirsty I am when I am running. My body turns off that mechanism, but will immediately turn it on when I stop running. I didn't feel thirsty at all during the race. Yet when I stopped, it's like I hadn't drank water in a day. I will also mentioned I took electrolytes during this race, something I've never done before. I have taken those pills many times during hot summer runs, and I kept the same ratio, so that wasn't the issue. I just could not possibly keep up with my sweat rate.

                           

                          My priority at this point though is to at least run to every water station, stop and drink double what I've been drinking, and then start running again, otherwise I was running a risk of more serious health issues.

                           

                          The rest of the race is a bit of a blur. I probably walked 5 more times. I did see nimmals at mile 24, so that was nice, but it really sucks to just have to "jog" in a marathon from mile 19 onward. I even saw a friend at mile 22 who jogged with me, and I was able to talk like I was doing an easy run. My body was totally fine, legs felt fine. But it's like my stomach/nausea/dehydration put a limiter on me that wouldn't let me run any faster.

                           

                          I was able to avoid walking the last 5K, so that was nice?

                           

                          Finish: 2:56:27. Z goal accomplished.

                           

                          Well, there are a few conclusions here and next steps for me:

                          1. I cannot run hot marathons. I drank water at every aid station, and note in NYC that is every single mile. I know at some other races you only get them every 2 mile or every 5K. This was every mile and it didn't matter. Sure I could have tried to grab 3 cups at every station instead of 2, but I can't really second guess that. When shit hit the fan at mile 18, my math says I had put down about 20-25 ounces of water at that point. Not even close to enough given my sweat rate is probably around 48 oz per hour in very hot conditions. 
                          2. Even under perfect weather though, who knows what condition I was in. My cycle wasn't the best even though I was running my highest mileage ever of 90ish MPW. 
                          3. Given that, I am running "as I feel" right now, but assuming I get the urge, I'm going to train for 5Ks/10Ks this spring. That was a big recipe for success for my current marathon PR. My body might just need a period of lower mileage, higher intensity work. The last time I ran an interval faster than LT pace is May 8. Yeah, I'm marathon training, but I think that's actually one reason I sucked at LT this cycle: I think I need more work at faster volume to make LT feel easier. 

                          If I can find a way to juggle all of this, I've decided I am going to run CIM next year. I want redemption at NYC so badly, but I just cannot take the chance that we get another bad weather day. Yes, this was the worst conditions in 35 years at the race, but I need to run my next marathon in cold conditions, which CIM is a lock for. I don't know what life will look like with 2 young kids, but if I can find a way to make it work, I'll see you guys next year in Sacramento.

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                           

                          flavio1980


                          Intl. correspondent

                            Jmac - thanks for the race report.

                            That was only the 2nd hell, there are 5 more hells bellow that 😁

                            This is your first rough patch so to say in your marathoning career, you will find redemption for sure, you got loads of talent and the will to put the work in.

                             

                            Muscle cramps - I finally got to the section in the book I was interested and it was only a couple of pages.

                            Pickle juice is back on the menu as something that can immediately stop cramps.

                            Apparently the vinegar in it is the culprit as it activated receptors in the mouth and upper gut that quiet the neurons.

                            Other foods that have been found to have the same effect are ginger, cinnamon, mustard and chilli peppers.

                            I guess I'll be bringing a small packs of vinegar with me along with cinnamon sachets. They fit in a pocket.

                            PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                            Up next: 10K Family race

                            Tool to generate Strava weekly

                            SteveChCh


                            Hot Weather Complainer

                              JMac - Very interesting read, and a lot I can relate to.  You can almost just substitute "stomach issues" for "cramps" along with slightly different speeds, and our experiences are very similar.  The difference is you can point right at the sun for the cause.  Was your target sub 2:50 or sub 2:45?  It seems to jump around in your report.  It sounds to me like you did all you could under the circumstances, except perhaps you shouldn't have told yourself you were being lazy but I can understand it.  I can also understand how hard on yourself you are, but from an outsiders perspective I don't think you should be.  Those conditions destroyed 95% of runners from what I can tell (that may be conservative) and most of them didn't have the added stomach issues.

                               

                              The other big pick up from your report is that New York 2024 is going to be very tough - that course is pretty brutal, not to mention the logistics.  I watched most of it the other day and even Central Park at that stage of the race looks brutal.  Incidentally, I added my Central Park runs from 2016 to Strava to remind myself where I ran and how it relates to the marathon final miles, and JMac is first on the segments I've run, among all the people I follow.  Sure, it's only 7 people but one of them is Molly Seidel...

                               

                              me - After going to see the nutritionist a couple of weeks ago and ruling that out, I went to see her husband today, who is a sports doctor who works with elites (and the rest of us) and has competed for NZ.  He looked at my technique and quickly ruled out any issues there, but did some quick manipulation and said I have a muscle imbalance caused by short/tight hamstrings and tight ITBs.  I've known this before but he said it is quite pronounced, and that I've probably gotten away with it until I got to marathon training.  He's retiring soon but said the best approach is to work with one of their physios, who also just happens to be an NZ marathon champion (Caden Shields), who will likely prescribe exercises and get me into yoga, which scares me a little.  He also said I likely did some damage which could bring on cramp earlier in the future, and he'll be interested to see how Queenstown goes, even with my conservative target.  I can repair this damage though.  I'm also getting full bloods done (but not today, with a race tomorrow).  Another suggestion is I may be better off switching to Hoka for training.  It's nice to have a plan, but I've got a bit of work to do.

                               

                              Anyway, off to the airport in a few hours.  My mate who started Extra Mile Runners will be at the finish supporting some of his athletes so I'll get a chance to chat with him and talk coaches.  I'm very relaxed about this race which is a good sign - reminds me of Southern Lakes, although there's no way I'll be going at that speed.  I'll probably have my Garmin live tracking on - it will be a bit hard to post that here at race start though so maybe I'll just text it to Mark who can post it here for anyone interested.  I'll just be trying to run 4:30/km average, although unlikely even splits due to the course, with a faster finish if I have anything in the last 5km.  Anything under 1:35 will be a win, but it won't be the end of the world if I miss it.  Race starts at 8am NZ time, (2pm Eastern, 11am Pacific).

                              Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                              Recent Races:   Melbourne Marathon 3:35:03 October 2, 2022, Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                              Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 16, 2023, New York Marathon 2024

                              CommanderKeen


                              Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                                JMac - Great (though a bit painful to read) RR, thanks for it. That "light switch" nauseousness is something I'm unfortunately familiar with.


                                If a little running fairy had appeared at mile 8 and said "you'll finish only 12 seconds off a PR if you don't change how you planned to run this race" I would have been sorely tempted to speed up earlier. While certainly within my abilities, that wouldn't have followed "the plan".


                                As of now, I'm oddly calm regarding CIM. Training has gone shockingly well; I've PRd every distance I've raced, workouts have gone quite well, I've run the final mile of my last two HMs VERY hard (literally faster-than-my-current-5k-pace hard) which really helps with confidence in strength, and it's likely that by next Wednesday I'll have run more this year than last (my current highest-mileage year). At time of posting, however, I still have 16 days, 16 hours, and 42 minutes left to freak out.

                                5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                                 

                                Upcoming Races:

                                 

                                CIM - 12/4