2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 497 times)

Fishyone


    Doubles only work for me when done as part of a run commute.  I have no ide how people who work from home or don't run commute get them done. I think I've only been able to do a few when not commuting.

     

    The last 7 miles of my commute (morning) and first 7 (evening)are by far the most congested with traffic so running them only adds about 20 minutes and sometimes I'm going faster than many stuck in traffic. 

    5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

    Marky_Mark_17


       

      That was always the discussion point.  My feeling was/is (and some others agreed) that it is better to acclimate the body to running doubles first at lower mileage.  Then increasing overall mileage can be done in a manner that is somewhat less taxing (though also potentially without the same stimulus for physiological adaptation).  All miles contribute to the training load, but 70mpw on all singles versus 70mpw with 3 doubles is not identical (obviously).  Though I will say that in my experience, it's easier to get to 70mpw with some doubles while also being  less likely to contribute to a training setback.  And once you're at 70mpw with some doubles, it MUCH easier to get to 80mpw (just add a mile or two to a few runs).  And then 90mpw.

       

       

      Yeah I know of a number of athletes who follow a similar approach.  Doubles are a simple way of increasing mileage while also still allowing you to keep a rest day in the programme.  I think you're right that 70mpw with doubles is generally less stressful on the body than 70mpw all hitting singles, albeit with different training impacts as well.

       

      Doubles only work for me when done as part of a run commute.  I have no ide how people who work from home or don't run commute get them done. I think I've only been able to do a few when not commuting. 

       

      I think it depends a lot on what you've got available in terms of terrain / routes.  Like, if I'm working in town I can head one way in the morning along the waterfront, and then cruise the other way for an easy one in the afternoon.  Or if I'm at home, there's a nice 5-6km coastal loop just down the road which is nice and scenic and perfect for a short cruise.  I think running the same route twice in one day would get pretty tired pretty quickly.

      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

      * Net downhill course

      Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

      Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      CalBears


        Doubles only work for me when done as part of a run commute.  I have no ide how people who work from home or don't run commute get them done. I think I've only been able to do a few when not commuting.

         

        The last 7 miles of my commute (morning) and first 7 (evening)are by far the most congested with traffic so running them only adds about 20 minutes and sometimes I'm going faster than many stuck in traffic. 

         

        Doubles are really easy to do even when you are working from home, like I do now. A regular run in the morning (can be anything from 6 to 15 miles) and then 4-6 miles either during lunch or after work at a TM. Or, if it's an easy day - 6-7 miles on a TM in the morning before work and then 4-5 miles after work. Piece of cake...

        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

        JMac11


        RIP Milkman

           

          Or, if it's an easy day - 6-7 miles on a TM in the morning before work and then 4-5 miles after work. Piece of cake...

           

          Only a marathoner would describe this as a piece of cake 

           

          Fishy - I'm with you. It's too much prep and showering after. It takes longer before/after the run than getting in a 4 mile double. I also love my run commute. Do you run with a backpack? I don't yet (so only run commute here and there) but trying to increase the number of days I do.

          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

           

           

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            Doubles only work for me when done as part of a run commute.  I have no ide how people who work from home or don't run commute get them done. I think I've only been able to do a few when not commuting.

             

            The last 7 miles of my commute (morning) and first 7 (evening)are by far the most congested with traffic so running them only adds about 20 minutes and sometimes I'm going faster than many stuck in traffic. 

            2019 CIM training log.

             

            Monday: 8.5

            Tuesday 11 (2x3 mile with 1 mile between repeats, warm up and cool down.)

            Wednedsay 7.75

            Thursday 12.75 (warm up, 9 at marathon pace, cool down)

            friday 6.15

            Saturday 20

            sunday 4.62

            10:18:21 running time.

             

            or

             

            Monday 8.5,

            Tuesday 10.13,

            Wednesday 7.03,

            Thursday 13.37,

            Friday 8.31,

            Saturday 15,

            Sunday 7.6

            9:54:06 total time

             

            I didn't work from home. Tuesday and Thursday were after work. The 20 miler was while my kid slept at 11am. The 15 miler was at 7am before swimming. Now I would do them at 5am, and doing runs after work would occur after dinner which is going to factor into any chance I have training for CIM. I changed my work schedule to have a shorter lunch, and finish my run to be home for dinner. The year before I started my runs after the kid went to bed which required a headlamp for about the last hour. If it is important you'll find a way. Mostly you lose out on sleep, or watching tv, or other fun activities for a few months and MY PERSONAL REWARD was my first sub 3 marathon. and my first Boston Qualfier (minus almost 6 minutes).

             

            I had the conversation of training with work with a buddy who had never trained, and ONLY trained while working from home in 2020 when everything was canceled. Then he trained on lunch when he didn't have a 45 minute commute one way and could "work later" to cover his lunch. I laughed at him when he talked about how hard training for a marathon was when he was done with training by 2pm and his long runs started at 8am or whenever he felt like it because he had a high school kid who could take care of himself. He will get to train for Boston 2023 during winter and I'm sure he's going to have all kinds of excuses as to why he can't run because he enjoys going skiing way more than running. I don't ski or have many other hobbies outside of running so I sacrifice "sitting at home doing nothing" time to go run.

             

             

            There is "have time" and "make time." It is just that simple.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 53.37 

            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

               

              Only a marathoner would describe this as a piece of cake 

               

              Fishy - I'm with you. It's too much prep and showering after. It takes longer before/after the run than getting in a 4 mile double. I also love my run commute. Do you run with a backpack? I don't yet (so only run commute here and there) but trying to increase the number of days I do.

               

              If you start running with a backpack it better contain at least a 2 liter bladder of water, and a towel. I'm not joking. You would need it based on how much water you lose on a run.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 53.37 

              5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

              mmerkle


                Doubles only work for me when done as part of a run commute.  I have no ide how people who work from home or don't run commute get them done. I think I've only been able to do a few when not commuting.

                 

                The last 7 miles of my commute (morning) and first 7 (evening)are by far the most congested with traffic so running them only adds about 20 minutes and sometimes I'm going faster than many stuck in traffic. 

                 

                I have never understood how people can run to/from work. Don't you show up sweaty? Do you just work all day in those clothes? Don't you have things to carry to and from work? I respect it and wish I could pull it off but I don't get it. To me running is a very separate thing.

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                   

                  I have never understood how people can run to/from work. Don't you show up sweaty? Do you just work all day in those clothes? Don't you have things to carry to and from work? I respect it and wish I could pull it off but I don't get it. To me running is a very separate thing.

                   

                  I would guess that the majority of folk who run commute to work will work in an office with shower facilities. At least I would hope that’s the case.

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                  CalBears


                    I would guess that the majority of folk who run commute to work will work in an office with shower facilities. At least I would hope that’s the case.

                     

                    Yep - when I was run-commuting, our office had a shower, not big one but good enough.

                    paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                    CalBears


                      Congrats, but if you didn’t enjoy Chicago then you might find that London is too flat for you.    I’m a bit gutted that I can’t race with you…but I’ll come up and support…and if you need any advice then just give me a shout as I know London pretty well as I lived there for 10 years. 👍

                       

                       

                      People always remember what they chose to remember  I will clarify it again - I loved the logistics of the Chicago marathon - for such a huge event, getting to the start and into the corrals is amazingly fast and easy. Getting out is longer but still ok. First half of Chicago is very very good - great neighborhoods and awesome crowd. It's the second half of the course where you certainly start wondering if this a major marathon or some park run. I saw more crowd support during CIM than during second half of the Chicago course. That, and pretty warm weather left me with a bad taste about the race. Btw, I still PR-ed there and when I was complaining about the course, I never complained about the flatness - I actually like when nothing distracts me from a rhythm. Hearing things about London crowd support I doubt I would have problems I had experienced in Chicago .

                      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                        I would guess that the majority of folk who run commute to work will work in an office with shower facilities. At least I would hope that’s the case.

                         

                        The people I know who run commute wear running backpacks, with their work clothes and shoes there.  Or they figure out some other way to transport clothes/shoes (take public transportation in and run home the one day, then run in and take public transportation home the next).

                         

                        I do think that run-commuting can be more difficult for those of us with longer hair, who wear make-up, etc, just because we require more prep time once we get to the office.

                         

                        Run-commuting works best when you are in an area with solid public transportation or easy availability of cabs, so that you have a second option if you suddenly can't run (twist your ankle at work; thunderstorms roll in, etc)

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        Fishyone


                           

                          I have never understood how people can run to/from work. Don't you show up sweaty? Do you just work all day in those clothes? Don't you have things to carry to and from work? I respect it and wish I could pull it off but I don't get it. To me running is a very separate thing.

                           

                          MMERK LOL that would entirely eliminate the few in person meetings I have left

                           

                          I'm lucky enough to have an actual old school office where I keep clothes (both running clothes and regular/work).  I also have a locker room/shower so it really works out well.  I'm hopeful that I never have to make the shift to the virtual office/touchdown space thing that most business is moving towards.

                           

                          I don't do the backpack as the only things I need are my car/office key, commuter rail pass and phone (which I always run with) so a thin belt works perfectly.  In the heat of the summer (on the 13 milers) I'll wear the belt with hydration bottles but I hate the extra blulkness.  It's only taken me 10 years to get a system that works and I still found a way to screw it up on race day

                           

                          First run today.  My legs feel fine and my back is completely normal.  Fingers crossed for a good couple weeks then mini-taper then give it another go!

                          5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            Doubles: everybody seems to be assuming that if you do double, you split it morning and evening.  That's not the only way to double.  If I double, I'll often run to a yoga class, and then from a yoga class.  Or run in the early morning, take some phone calls, and then do a second later morning run.

                             

                             

                            Like Mikkey, I find the first miles of a run to be by far the worst, and so doubling forces me to deal with that part of the run twice.  For that reason, I generally prefer singles.   But I think there are benefits from both.

                             

                            When dealing with a minor tweak/possible injury, sometimes breaking what would be a 10 mile run into 6 and 4 with an hour between them is JUST enough to give that tweak an opportunity to heal while still letting me keep my mileage up.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            Fishyone


                              2019 CIM training log.

                               

                              Monday: 8.5

                              Tuesday 11 (2x3 mile with 1 mile between repeats, warm up and cool down.)

                              Wednedsay 7.75

                              Thursday 12.75 (warm up, 9 at marathon pace, cool down)

                              friday 6.15

                              Saturday 20

                              sunday 4.62

                              10:18:21 running time.

                               

                              or

                               

                              Monday 8.5,

                              Tuesday 10.13,

                              Wednesday 7.03,

                              Thursday 13.37,

                              Friday 8.31,

                              Saturday 15,

                              Sunday 7.6

                              9:54:06 total time

                               

                              I didn't work from home. Tuesday and Thursday were after work. The 20 miler was while my kid slept at 11am. The 15 miler was at 7am before swimming. Now I would do them at 5am, and doing runs after work would occur after dinner which is going to factor into any chance I have training for CIM. I changed my work schedule to have a shorter lunch, and finish my run to be home for dinner. The year before I started my runs after the kid went to bed which required a headlamp for about the last hour. If it is important you'll find a way. Mostly you lose out on sleep, or watching tv, or other fun activities for a few months and MY PERSONAL REWARD was my first sub 3 marathon. and my first Boston Qualfier (minus almost 6 minutes).

                               

                              I had the conversation of training with work with a buddy who had never trained, and ONLY trained while working from home in 2020 when everything was canceled. Then he trained on lunch when he didn't have a 45 minute commute one way and could "work later" to cover his lunch. I laughed at him when he talked about how hard training for a marathon was when he was done with training by 2pm and his long runs started at 8am or whenever he felt like it because he had a high school kid who could take care of himself. He will get to train for Boston 2023 during winter and I'm sure he's going to have all kinds of excuses as to why he can't run because he enjoys going skiing way more than running. I don't ski or have many other hobbies outside of running so I sacrifice "sitting at home doing nothing" time to go run.

                               

                               

                              There is "have time" and "make time." It is just that simple.

                               

                               RP- Very nice work.  Juggling work is one thing but work AND kid(s) is another thing entirely!

                              5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

                              Fishyone


                                Doubles: everybody seems to be assuming that if you do double, you split it morning and evening.  That's not the only way to double.  If I double, I'll often run to a yoga class, and then from a yoga class.  Or run in the early morning, take some phone calls, and then do a second later morning run.

                                 

                                 

                                Like Mikkey, I find the first miles of a run to be by far the worst, and so doubling forces me to deal with that part of the run twice.  For that reason, I generally prefer singles.   But I think there are benefits from both.

                                 

                                When dealing with a minor tweak/possible injury, sometimes breaking what would be a 10 mile run into 6 and 4 with an hour between them is JUST enough to give that tweak an opportunity to heal while still letting me keep my mileage up.

                                 

                                 DW- Interesting .....I've never even though about that.  I think I read in Pfitz or some other book that you should try to have at least 4-6 hours between runs and I've blindly followed that since. But what you're saying makes perfect sense its warming up that takes time and if you can leverage that its worth it.

                                5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)