2022 Advanced Marathoning Thread (Read 301 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

     

     RP- Very nice work.  Juggling work is one thing but work AND kid(s) is another thing entirely!

     

    I have a VERY understanding wife.  She understands I go all in on hobbies and after she finishes complaining and yelling I’ll go for my run and will return later than I would have if she had let me go when I wanted to originally 

     

    In all seriousness, modifying my schedule, and only having one kid was slightly easier than 2 kids.  My wife knows how important CIM is for me and was just as excited about my BQ as I was. She has told me she doesn’t care, to a point, as long as I’m not out there lollygagging.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 54.9

    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07


    Speed Surplus

      When I'm working in an office, I'm fortunate to have a nice shower/gym facility. I'm less fortunate to live ~19 miles from the building, so run commuting is a one-way affair at best  Though I have done it before.

       

      Ran 18:49 FTW today at parkrun! I'm pretty jazzed about finally going sub-19, although this race didn't feel great. It was at a weird time, race-wise, and I had a terrible night of sleep that resulted in me waking up a bit later than usual, so my morning food/coffee/bathroom routine was off. It wasn't terrible, but I basically felt a bit pukey from halfway to the end. I think I could go a little faster with competition and on a perfect gastrointestinal day Big grin

       

      And my GPS on this course is always wacko. It was indicating much slower times than I was actually running during my warmup (9:00 versus probably 7:40 actual) and during the race. Then it came up with 3.06 on the watch (3.05 in Strava), but you can see that the line is messed up if you look at the map. Whatever! I know they've measured the course, and I'm pretty sure it was LONG the last time I ran it, so I'm taking this 18:49 to the bank.

      5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

      Marky_Mark_17


         

        In all seriousness, modifying my schedule, and only having one kid was slightly easier than 2 kids.  My wife knows how important CIM is for me and was just as excited about my BQ as I was. 

         

        That's cool man.  It does make a big difference.  I know my wife kinda wishes I didn't disappear at 5:30am most mornings and also wishes I didn't spend quite so much on running shoes, but her and my daughter are my biggest supporters and I'm super grateful for that.  For me, I think it adds a bit of extra motivation in races too, like you owe it not just to yourself but also to them to go out and give it everything.

        3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

        10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

        * Net downhill course

        Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

        Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 20 August

        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

        mmerkle


           

          That's cool man.  It does make a big difference.  I know my wife kinda wishes I didn't disappear at 5:30am most mornings and also wishes I didn't spend quite so much on running shoes, but her and my daughter are my biggest supporters and I'm super grateful for that.  For me, I think it adds a bit of extra motivation in races too, like you owe it not just to yourself but also to them to go out and give it everything.

           

          This is (and other peoples input on this) the reason I think very highly of the amateur runners. With all due respect to the pros (and boy do I respect them), amateur runners have full-time jobs, and often kids etc. And they/we still get up and train like hell, without getting paid a cent to do so.

          Next Race: Hashawha 3 Mile XC Trail Run (6/9)


          Elite Jogger

             

            That's cool man.  It does make a big difference.  I know my wife kinda wishes I didn't disappear at 5:30am most mornings and also wishes I didn't spend quite so much on running shoes, but her and my daughter are my biggest supporters and I'm super grateful for that.  For me, I think it adds a bit of extra motivation in races too, like you owe it not just to yourself but also to them to go out and give it everything.

             

            When I first started running my wife used to accompany me to races for support as it was her that encouraged me to take up running as an alternative to golf.  But she would then take the piss out of my running style and observe that the lead runners would glide effortlessly past her…and then I’d appear with both feet pointing outwards, arms all over the place and basically looking like I’m about to die!  But she’s always stayed supportive...in 2017 on the morning of London marathon she left me a note on the kitchen table saying how proud she was and that I’d bring back the Moose Mug!  Anyway, it was one of my worst performances, but that note was motivation and 2 years later my wife was tracking me on the London app (whilst in bed with a cup of tea) and claims that she burst into tears with emotion when I finished and finally achieved Moose Mug status!  

            SomethingClever - Congrats!  A sub19 5k is very encouraging. 👍

            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              SC - congratulations on breaking 19 - that's a nice barrier to break, especially during marathon training!

               

              ***

               

              My week:

               

              63 miles running, 3 hours pool-running, and ~1500 yards swimming.

              M: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
              T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 1600, 1200, 2x800, 400, 2x200 in 6:53, 4:56, 3:14, 3:11, 91, 44, and 45.  Recoveries were 4:50 after the 1600, and between 2:4x and 3:0x after the 1200 and 800s. Full recovery after the 400s and 200s. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
              W: 8 miles very easy (9:57), upper body weights/core and then 4 miles easy (9:30) plus drills and strides.
              Th: 90 minutes pool-running and streaming yoga.
              F: 12 miles, including 2x2 miles in 14:07 (7:08/6:59) and 13:43 (6:54/6:49) with long recovery in between (swapped shoes), also a "300m" in 73 seconds and a "200m" in 46 seconds. . Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 meters recovery swimming.
              Sa: 8 miles easy (9:59), streaming yoga, and 4.5 miles easy (9:41) plus drills/strides.
              Su: 14 miles progressive, split as the first 5 miles averaging 9:44, next 4 averaging 8:22, and next 5 averaging 7:44 (and then a half-mile cooldown). Followed with leg strength work and 500 meters recovery swimming.

               

              Just another week focused on consistent training and getting some mileage in.  Sunday's long run ended up being a bit slower than my previous long runs, but I think a lot of that was my choice of route, which featured a lot of root heaves, trail congestion, some sharp turns, rolling hills, and wooden bridges.  All of which are challenges to my mechanics, which is why I did this route.  The good news is that I never felt at risk of falling (well, except for one sharp drop) and that was a big improvement.

               

              I'm racing the Broad Street 10 Miler this coming Sunday, so Friday was shoe testing time.  I decided to test out the Metaspeed Edge on the first 2 mile repeat, and hated it.  That shoe has a sweet spot, and it is 5K pace and faster.   At tempo effort I'm landing on my mid-foot and rolling forward, and the Metaspeed Edge doesn't like that at all.

               

              So I jogged back to my car and swapped to the RC Elite 2 for the second 2 mile repeat, done at the same perceived effort and heart rate, but significantly faster.  That being said, I think the RC Elite 2 is really best for marathons, and is a bit soft for anything faster than that pace.  So I will almost certainly be running Broad Street in my Takumi Sen 8s, which seem to hit a middle ground between the two shoes.

              I put the Metaspeed Edge back on to play with some faster stuff - that shoe really feels great at fast speeds.  So I'm going to use it my next track workout to see how it handles that.

               

              /shoe talk.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                 

                That's cool man.  It does make a big difference.  I know my wife kinda wishes I didn't disappear at 5:30am most mornings and also wishes I didn't spend quite so much on running shoes, but her and my daughter are my biggest supporters and I'm super grateful for that.  For me, I think it adds a bit of extra motivation in races too, like you owe it not just to yourself but also to them to go out and give it everything.

                 

                I’ve gone from running at 10am or 11 am to 5 am because of family. I only do my long runs this early so I can be a little helpful in the mornings and do all my running on lunch. I definitely used the family as motivation to power through and give myself heat stroke in 2019 at Revel Mt Charleston....around mile 24…when I ran a major downhill marathon in an attempt to bq.

                 

                sc congratulations on breaking 19 finally. After the “hay meet barn” conversation earlier maybe you could update training speed paces and see how it goes. I know a 5k isn’t a good race to usage for marathons, BUT speed work could benefit from it. Perhaps some faster longer runs in progression style.

                 

                darkwave I think you have a love affair with the Takimi Sen.

                 

                mikkey cool story bro.

                JMac you would be proud of me.  A runner this weekend mentioned how challenging it was to move Hanson workouts around for marathon training. I’d seen her do a JDlike workout 20 miler and told her about the Bible and said “I think you’ll like this. It covers everything from 5k to marathons.” She told me she liked the 20 miler broken up into a workout better than just a straight 20 miler.

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 54.9

                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                JMac11


                Milkman

                  mmerkle - I run commute in the opposite direction: leave work to run home. Although I do have a gym/shower at work too, so it's always an option on the way in as well. I'd also say although everything you said is true about amateur runners, you have to respect pros as well: imagine getting an injury and it means you won't get a paycheck next month. The stress from that must be unbelievable except for the absolute cream of the crop who are on steady sponsorship deals.

                   

                  Fishy - what you are describing is what I do today: I just run home with a belt that has my keys, ID, and phone: that's it. The one thing I'm struggling with though is that the next day, I have a bunch of clothes I left in the office. If I kept doing it back to back days, don't you have an entire wardrobe of clothes you need to bring home? Do you bring in a suitcase or something at the beginning of the week to bring all the clothes in and then a suitcase on Friday to take them all home? That's the part I'm stuck with, so I only run one day a week home.

                   

                  DW - nice week and as commented on Strava, Sunday's run looked promising.

                   

                  SC - very nice! I hope that brings up your confidence about the shape you're in!

                   

                  RP - your comment about DW and the Takumi Sen made me laugh. Also very smart recommending Daniels! In some ways, books that give prescribed workouts every day are even harder for some people because they don't know how to move stuff around. I always loved that Daniels just said "here are your 2 workouts: you figure out the rest." It does require some knowledge though about how to structure easy/recovery days between those workouts.

                   

                  Keen - come on back!

                   

                   

                  I had my first week that showed I may be getting back into the shape I was last fall. A very good LT workout on Wednesday and hit my marathon PR pace on Saturday even though I was okay with running something 5-10 seconds slower. I've been slowly adjusting my VDOT each time I beat the pace I am going after in order to follow the principle we always talk about here: it's better to train too slowly than too quickly.

                   

                  I always tried to take recovery runs slowly, but I'm going even slower this cycle to reduce the injury risks. They've really started to grow on me: just going out at a very easy pace for about an hour has become one of my favorite runs of the week!

                   

                  I've still got 4 weeks to go before my half marathon tune up. In many ways that's good given I feel like I'm getting into shape now and still have time. In other ways, it's bad: hard not to let injury concerns creep back into your mind. I'm keeping up with the strengthening work though more so than any other cycle.

                   

                   

                  Weekly for period: From: 04/18/2022 To 04/24/2022

                  Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                  in ft
                  04/18 Afternoon Run 7.00 11.26 00:59:05 08:26 05:15 246
                  04/19 Evening Run 10.41 16.75 01:20:05 07:42 04:47 400
                  04/20 8E + 3x2T (5:39) + 2E 15.93 25.63 01:53:32 07:08 04:26 328
                  04/21 Evening Run 6.33 10.19 00:53:45 08:29 05:16 217
                  04/22 Afternoon Run 10.38 16.70 01:18:33 07:34 04:42 413
                  04/23 2E + 12M (5:56) + 2E 16.01 25.76 01:44:00 06:30 04:02 571
                  04/24 Starting to really enjoy recovery runs 6.71 10.79 00:58:31 08:43 05:25 233

                  Total distance: 72.76mi

                  5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                   

                  Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

                  Mr MattM


                    While I am excited to see all of these miles getting logged, it's also a bit depressing!  I managed 25 miles last week, and have been between 25 and 30 miles for 3 of the past 4 weeks.

                     

                    My damaged toe is allowing me to run almost daily, I just have to closely manage the progression and be ultra conservative.  Hey, at least I can still run!

                     

                    You guys/gals are rockin' it!

                    No expectations; Just appreciation


                    Speed Surplus

                      Nice week, DW. That 2x2 mile looks pretty strong - hopefully it feels like you're rounding into the kind of form you've had in recent years.

                       

                      Likewise, Jmac. What are you targeting for the HM tuneup?

                       

                      RP - I bow down before runners who can get up and run early in the morning. I've never been able to do it, except on race day. I'm more likely to get a run in at 10pm than 5am.

                       

                      My week - Happy with the 5k pr and also knowing that it wasn't an "ideal" race in some ways. Also glad I got some semblance of a long run in after the race effort. Going to enjoy my scheduled rest day today!

                       

                      Weekly for period: From: 04/18/2022 To 04/24/2022

                      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      04/19 Felt smooth, but judging by HR not quite as effortless as some recent runs 10.04 16.16 01:19:13 07:53 04:54 351
                      04/20 Slow, I guess? 6.97 11.21 00:56:12 08:04 05:01 269
                      04/21 It was short sleeves weather but I wore long sleeves 🥵 9.40 15.12 01:14:28 07:55 04:56 335
                      04/22 5 ez plus a few strides for muscle tuning 5.42 8.72 00:43:43 08:04 05:01 157
                      04/23 Morning Run 1.47 2.36 00:11:56 08:07 05:03 26
                      04/23 Renton Parkrun, 1st place 3.06 4.92 00:18:50 06:09 03:50 36
                      04/23 Morning Run 2.52 4.06 00:21:52 08:41 05:23 49
                      04/24 Best I can do today. Will get a longer long run in next week 14.27 22.97 01:56:51 08:11 05:05 351

                      Total distance: 53.15mi

                      5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        Work has been pretty crazy (prepping for a big conference next week) so I've missed a bunch, but here are a few comments:

                        Doubles - I do love doubles and agree that as a training staple they're mostly beneficial once a person gets to 70+mpw in singles. However, putting in some doubles and later integrating those "extra" miles into longer single runs is a good way to ease into the strain of higher mileage.


                        Run commuting - Does my daily run that starts and ends in front of my house count since I work from home?


                        Clever - Speed surplus, indeed! Congrats on the win.


                        DWave - Nice week, and I'm glad you're really making progress.
                        Neat on the Edge. I've liked the Sky myself, but I can see why that shoe would be a good fit for you. Interesting that you perceive it to be better at much higher intensities.


                        JMac - Thanks for the invite, and nice week.

                         

                        82 miles two weeks ago, last week below. After a double later today I'll be perfectly on pace for my mileage goal for the year. I do plan on running when I go to this work conference (Phoenix), so hopefully I won't fall behind there even if I don't get in a workout.

                        Did a fun little town-to-town race this weekend. The coolest part of it was seeing an 85 y/o man who has run all such instances of this race (I don't know how many) finish. He started at least 75 minutes before the actual race did and I passed him right about halfway, then he rolled into the finish after what was at least 3.5 hours. Definitely impressive to me.

                         

                        Weekly for period: From: 04/18/2022 To 04/24/2022

                        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                        in ft
                        04/18 1 coyote 12.05 19.39 01:41:27 08:25 05:14 545
                        04/18 Runch 4.11 6.61 00:34:09 08:19 05:10 200
                        04/19 7 herons, 5 geese, & some lightning off to the west 8.10 13.04 01:12:37 08:58 05:34 449
                        04/20 3x (4' 15k effort, 6' M effort) + 4x 45" Hard 13.15 21.16 01:40:10 07:37 04:44 741
                        04/20 Heat doping 5.05 8.13 00:41:44 08:16 05:08 233
                        04/21 Leaving when I should arrive 8.00 12.88 01:09:30 08:41 05:24 371
                        04/22 1 owl & a couple mystery lights 10.00 16.10 01:24:10 08:25 05:14 787
                        04/23 Tour du Strong City 3.30 5.32 00:25:21 07:41 04:46 230
                        04/23 Old Settlers 9(ish) mile foot race 9.09 14.63 01:01:47 06:48 04:13 384
                        04/23 I can still make Cheyenne. 2.75 4.43 00:24:07 08:46 05:27 157
                        04/24 Congrats to everyone who rolled an ultra rare north wind + cold front for the Memorial 4.05 6.52 00:34:51 08:36 05:21 243

                        Total distance: 79.67mi

                        5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                        Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                        CIM - 12/4

                        JMac11


                        Milkman

                          Matt - being able to run consistently is such a great pleasure after an injury. There are so many steps though that make it scary: the first run, then the first back to back run, then the first "workout", then the first big mileage week, then first race, etc.

                           

                          SC - assuming I keep gaining fitness and I get good weather day of, I'll be shooting for a PR for my half. Right now I believe I'm in 1:15:XX shape though. I'm also happy to hear I've found another non-morning runner! I've been the only person on these boards who effectively never runs in the morning, except on rare occasions where I have no choice. Not only for sleep purposes, but I just can't seem to get the bathroom schedule done right.

                           

                          Keen - Strava is so weird, sometimes it just doesn't show me your runs, and other times you're the first person to pop up! I missed your race this weekend, but that's a really cool story! Is your next race really not until October?!

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                          Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)


                          Speed Surplus

                            "Not only for sleep purposes, but I just can't seem to get the bathroom schedule done right."

                            It's 100% this for me. I can't just stumble out of bed and start running - I need to use the bathroom first. But my body wants food and coffee before I can use the bathroom. And if I run with anything in my stomach, I get acid reflux.

                             

                            So midday is by FAR the best time for me to run. Enough time to digest breakfast and use the bathroom.

                             

                            For races, I have to get up super early and do the food/coffee thing to give myself enough time. Like, I'm talking 4am for a 7am marathon.

                            5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                            JMac11


                            Milkman

                              Totally agree on everything you said.

                               

                              Afternoon/evening runners unite! There are dozens of us! Dozens!

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                 

                                I’ve gone from running at 10am or 11 am to 5 am because of family. I only do my long runs this early so I can be a little helpful in the mornings and do all my running on lunch. I definitely used the family as motivation to power through and give myself heat stroke in 2019 at Revel Mt Charleston....around mile 24…when I ran a major downhill marathon in an attempt to bq.

                                 

                                 

                                Ahhh 5am.

                                 

                                Mikkey - I didn't realise your wife got you into running?  Mine tells me my stride is too short and choppy as well (even though she does not know anything about running that I have not told her).

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

                                Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 20 August

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"