2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 426 times)

CommanderKeen


Aspiring Hobby Jogger

    Basically copypasta from the HM thread:

    Wow, I'm so far behind. I'm working my way through all the backlog - copious "good jobs" to everyone putting in the work.
    Last week I temporarily relocated to Phoenix, AZ for a work conference and preparations for/recovery from said conference have taken a good while. Running in Phoenix was absolutely awesome simply due to the lack of humidity. I've never gotten a chill before in 65* weather (during a progressive LR, no less!) - evaporative cooling is on a whole 'nother level in the desert and something I certainly don't get to take advantage of here.

    5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

     

    Upcoming Races:

     

    Wurst Race Half - 10/8

    Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

    CIM - 12/4

    JMac11


    I spilled the milk

      SC - very nice effort this weekend! Looks like you definitely are in PR shape. The cycle is just about over for you so this is great timing.

       

      Weather - I hate Strava, I didn't even see that 5K! What a great time. I know it because I ran my long run in those conditions and it was terrible on Saturday morning! I really think you're close to being "back." You probably need a decent amount of time to get into marathon shape, but as you said, you're pretty much done with marathon training until October at the earliest given the conditions where you live. This is a great time to just keep running 5 and 10ks and build a nice speed base before getting back to your old workouts.

       

      JHud - training for the mile will make you a better racer overall, very smart. I find even mile pace these days to be very fast. I remember I tried to run a 100M sprint a couple of years ago and it felt like my hamstrings were going to explode. It's funny how something you used to do all the time as a kid is now so foreign.

       

      Keen - I am experiencing what you did in the other way: Florida was a TDP of 150 for my runs. I came back to NYC and it was 65 with a dew point of 28 degrees!

       

       

      I've returned from the running hell that is known as Florida (still no clue how weather does this for 6+ months of the year). I thought I was very ready for my long run on Saturday: I planned out a route that had water fountains along the way so I could refill my bottles, I planned on drinking more water than ever before, it was on a shaded rail trail (I love that the USA has so many of these things now!), and I felt in great shape after some of my recent workouts.

       

      2 miles in when I drank my first water I realized I forgot my electrolyte pills back at the hotel. I felt great around mile 10 though and said maybe I'll get through this whole thing okay. Boy was I wrong. Around mile 14, the wheels started to come off the bus. What was bizarre though was that I didn't get thirsty, but rather insanely hungry. I started to feel hungry a few miles earlier, but at this point, I realized I wasn't going to get through this run without a lot of trouble. By mile 17, I felt like I was going to throw up any minute from how intense the hunger was. Luckily, one of the water fountain stations had a small shack that was open and I bought a Clif bar to hold me over. I still had to walk about every mile in the way in. It was by far the most I've ever walked in a run in my life.

       

      I think the intense hunger though and nausea was actually due to the lack of electrolytes, as I did everything the same as I do for every long run in terms of nutrition. Only once in my life have I felt hunger this bad on a run, and it was the same thing: 20+ miles in intense heat. Otherwise, not only do I not need nutrition, but my hunger is usually minimal. Still, this may be a lesson for Grandma's if we got a hot day that I need to be prepared.

       

      The good news: this was my biggest week ever and I feel pretty strong. I still have the nagging concerns of injuries given this is exactly how I felt the week before my stress reaction this fall. However, I'm doing so much more strength training this time, so hopefully that helps.

       

      This week is one last awful Vo2 max workout (only doing this because of my half in 10 days, otherwise I'm done with these for the rest of the cycle), and then my final big-boy MP workout: 14 miles at MP on Friday evening. This is one of my big tests for the marathon: I usually run my marathon right around this pace. Going to try to pace this thing right around PR pace, so 5:58 or so. As long as I can average anything under 6:02 or so, I'll feel very confident going into race day if we get good weather.

       

       

      Weekly for period: From: 05/02/2022 To 05/08/2022

      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
      in ft
      05/02 Afternoon Run 10.42 16.77 01:18:50 07:34 04:42 410
      05/03 9E + 4x2T (5:38) + 1E 18.18 29.26 02:06:31 06:58 04:19 430
      05/04 Morning Run 6.71 10.79 00:58:26 08:43 05:25 157
      05/05 Morning Run 10.39 16.71 01:20:43 07:46 04:50 410
      05/06 Morning Run 10.01 16.11 01:14:43 07:28 04:38 272
      05/07 So THAT'S what happens in Florida when you forget your electrolytes 🥵 22.01 35.41 02:53:50 07:54 04:55 374
      05/08 Morning Run 7.01 11.27 00:55:55 07:59 04:58 135

      Total distance: 84.72mi

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

      weatherboy80


        JMac: That was still quite the impressive LR regardless.  I don't think I've done many efforts over 15-16 miles in conditions like we had Saturday.  Ironically, just after you left we have some great weather (today) where the temperature dropped down to just under 70 with dew points in the upper 50's which for us in mid-May is quite nice.  Really excited to see how you do on the Grandma's course given your fitness right now.  I have a few friends who have massive PR's up there.

        1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

        CommanderKeen


        Aspiring Hobby Jogger

          JMac - No worries about lmnt, do whatever suits you. I'd likely buy up any remaining supply you don't want.
          Also, that's a ton of miles with no doubles.

           

          Also, put me down for CIM this December, if you will. Sub 2:55!!


          Weather - Glad you're back, and here's to a full recovery.

          5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

           

          Upcoming Races:

           

          Wurst Race Half - 10/8

          Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

          CIM - 12/4

          JMac11


          I spilled the milk

            Keen - I think I realized with LMNT that I actually don't want anything in my drink, I'd rather just have plain water. When I start sweating a lot, it's like I can taste the salt in my mouth, and plain water helps wash it all down. When you have another salty drink, it's almost like it made everything worse. So I'm going to stick with Saltstick pills as those always worked for me in the past. Regarding your goal - I love it. We'll get your Z goal as we get closer to the race 

             

            Weather - I always found when I was really heat trained, TDP of around 135 is where it started to feel bearable, so pretty much what you're describing. Grandma's I think is really hit or miss with the weather. I think it's actually worse than Boston as you're almost never going to get a day in the 40s. On the other hand, if it ends up being in the 60s, you are much better heat acclimated because you've had a solid month running in much warmer temperatures. Put another way, there's almost no chance of even A weather, but B weather is pretty consistent (unlike Boston which is either A+ or D, rarely in between except for the year we ran it).

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Also, put me down for CIM this December, if you will. Sub 2:55!!

              See the source image

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 54.9

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

              Mikkey


              Elite Jogger

                Also, put me down for CIM this December, if you will. Sub 2:55!!

                 


                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


                Speed Surplus

                  Jmac - That 22 miler sounds brutal. The hunger is weird. I've bonked extremely hard a few times, occasionally in the heat (PNW heat, not anything like Florida heat), but I've never experienced extreme hunger as a symptom.

                   

                  Keen - I love that you're targeting sub 2:55. I know you've had a few marathons that didn't go well - have you had any with perfect or near-perfect conditions? Hoping that CIM lines up for a great race - I would assume that December in that part of CA is going to give you a great shot at nice racing weather.

                  5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                     

                    Keen - I love that you're targeting sub 2:55. I know you've had a few marathons that didn't go well - have you had any with perfect or near-perfect conditions? Hoping that CIM lines up for a great race - I would assume that December in that part of CA is going to give you a great shot at nice racing weather.

                     

                    Narrator: It was a cold, dark, December morning in the village knowns as Folsom of the Californias. It was the Year of our Lord Twenty Nineteen. The barn was joyously overfilled with hay so as to burn hot with the simplest of embers. The Covid had provided the opportunity to train to the highest of levels with the greatest of hopes for a thrice attempt at the marathon of the sub-3 variety. What was about to happen would puzzle the minds for ages to come.

                    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                    VDOT 54.9

                    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                    CommanderKeen


                    Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                      RP & Mikkey - With those quotes you guys sure aren't letting me back down off that goal, are you?


                      Clever - Just counting weather, CIM last December was quite good though perhaps with a higher DP than I'd prefer. If you count weather + me not getting sick as "perfect or near-perfect" conditions then you'd have to go back to November 2018.

                      5k: 18:05 8/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                       

                      Upcoming Races:

                       

                      Wurst Race Half - 10/8

                      Toyota Music Factory Half - 11/13

                      CIM - 12/4


                      Speed Surplus

                         

                        The barn was joyously overfilled with hay so as to burn hot with the simplest of embers.

                         

                        😂 love it

                        5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                        SteveChCh


                        Hot Weather Complainer

                          Sub 2:55, I love it.  In all your spectacular efforts so far, I've expected you to come in sub 2:55 based on your training so I don't think it's a crazy goal albeit gutsy after your experiences.

                           

                          At least this way JMac won't override your goal like he has with mine.

                          Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                          Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                          Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                          JMac11


                          I spilled the milk

                            Steve - didn't you just run a 1:27 with COVID? We might have to put you down for a 3:05 

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)

                            SteveChCh


                            Hot Weather Complainer

                              Heh, to be fair it's more like a 1:28 without the downhill finish, and I'd recovered from Covid.  But let's see how the next 4.5 months play out.  I may be capable of faster than my goal of sub 3:20, but I stand by a conservative approach for my first.

                              Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                              Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                              Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                              JMac11


                              I spilled the milk

                                A 3:20 off of a 1:28 is the ultimate violation of Rule #7. A very good marathoner could run a 3:05 off of that (calculators put it at 3:03:39). A conservative goal would be 3:10. The 3:15 I up front is a "this is my first marathon" goal. The only way 3:20 is your goal is if you're taking a break at the halfway point to have a pint with friends.

                                 

                                ETA: this is more of a you should consider pushing yourself more type post. If you want to just lollygag the marathon and enjoy your first one, then 3:20 is good. I ran my first marathon in 3:12 off a 1:29:37, and I was not running crazy mileage for either (looks like about 30ish miles for my half, and averaged about 40 MPW for my marathon because I lost 2 weeks due to pneumonia with 10 weeks to go). I think 3:15 is a very achievable goal for you.

                                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Jersey Shore Half Marathon (10/2)