2022 Advanced Marathoning Thread (Read 301 times)

JMac11


Milkman

    First, on the question of having B goals, I think it depends on your personality. There's no way having a B goal would allow me to ease up becuase I feel it's okay to hit that one. Instead, what a B goal does, especially in a marathon, is prevents me from just completely mailing it in when I know the A goal isnt happening. There are times at mile 20 that you just know today is not your day. Without a B goal, I'd just start walking at that point. My A goal this marathon will be a PR, but I'm definitely setting the B goal of 2:3X so that I don't completely give up if the PR isn't happening.

     

    Flavio - I agree with everything you are saying, excpet that 3:15 is not a BOTT type goal. That would be 3:05. 3:10 is a more conservative goal. 3:15 is a good this is my first marathon goal.

     

    Anyway Steve long way to go for you, just good for discussion in this weird period on this thread where nobody is running a marathon for a month! We are going through another wave of COVID here in NYC and I'm just hoping I can somehow avoid it for the next 6 weeks, which may be tough. Can I catch it on the plane ride back from my marathon? 

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

    Fishyone


       

       

      Anyway Steve long way to go for you, just good for discussion in this weird period on this thread where nobody is running a marathon for a month! 

       

      I'm running one Sunday. Jim Thorpe marathon JIm Thorpe, PA). Looks like a very flat and slight downhill course in the middle of nowhere.  The challenges for me will be weather (60s with a high of low 70s) and lack of any GPS coverage.  I really wanted to get another race in before the summer.

      5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 40:13 (2014), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 

      CommanderKeen


      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

         

        I'm running one Sunday. Jim Thorpe marathon JIm Thorpe, PA). Looks like a very flat and slight downhill course in the middle of nowhere.  The challenges for me will be weather (60s with a high of low 70s) and lack of any GPS coverage.  I really wanted to get another race in before the summer.

        Best of luck with the race and the forecast!

         

        Also, there's a Jim Thorpe, PA? Interesting given that he was from Oklahoma (or what would become Oklahoma after statehood since that happened well after he was born) and I don't think there's a town here named after him. Not that there aren't plenty of sports complexes, etc. that bear his name (he was an absolutely phenomenal athlete). I suppose he probably moved to PA at some point.

         

        ETA: I was a moron during my workout this morning. The plan was 2x 20' @ HMe w/ 3' recovery between. Should be doable enough, even with it being a bit warmer than it has been lately and it was plenty humid given that a storm finished just before I hit the road. Got through the first just fine, but felt like things weren't going well at all for the second. What little wind there was had completely died so it seemed like I couldn't cool down at all and it felt like I wasn't holding the effort like I wanted (Stryd also said I was averaging ~10W less than my target).

        I don't typically use pace values even in a workout, but I glanced at my watch and mistook a field with "current pace" for "lap average pace" and that was far enough off (20 sec/mi) what I figured I could do that I pulled the plug halfway through the second 20' interval. Upon review, I saw that  my average pace for that failed segment was only  ~6 sec/mi slower than the first, not 20 sec/mi. Not ideal, but far better than I thought and close enough that I should have just suffered through the next 10 minutes.

        Time to get rid of those pace fields, I guess.

        5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

         

        Upcoming Races:

         

        Wurst Race Half - 10/8

        CIM - 12/4

        Running Problem


        Problem Child

          keen ouch. That reminds me....I need to start doing workouts. I keep telling myself marathon training sucks, and I keep putting it off.

          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

          VDOT 54.9

          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            I do think it helps to have some kind of motivational goal to shoot for. Maybe if I had targeted 3:20 I could have pushed harder for a 3:19? Who knows.

            Having a goal definitely helped me progress. Even when the goal was "at least a PR even if it's a soft one" or a defined sub 3/BQ-5. It's how I went from the 3:30 marathon group to the 3:20 group to the sub 3 group and every one of those steps was a "umm I don't think I belong in this group" step. #320orBust

             

            I have a goal in mind for a marathon I haven't signed up for and I don't know if I actually want to say it, then commit to it, then train for it because once I achieve it I think it will be the peak of my marathon goals I never would have actually believed were possible when I said "I'll stop running when I run the Boston Marathon."

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 54.9

            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

            JMac11


            Milkman

              Fishy - looks like dew points around 60 for that race too, that'll be tough with the spring we've had. It's not too far off though, I think you can salvage a decent race if you hydrate well throughout the race.

               

              Keen - For longer tempos like that, I don't even check my watch except when it clicks off for each mile. Otherwise, I find I'm obsessing too much over pace. I guess average pace field would work too, but current pace shouldn't even be an option on watches! Totally useless.

              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

               

              Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                First, on the question of having B goals, I think it depends on your personality. There's no way having a B goal would allow me to ease up becuase I feel it's okay to hit that one. Instead, what a B goal does, especially in a marathon, is prevents me from just completely mailing it in when I know the A goal isnt happening. There are times at mile 20 that you just know today is not your day. Without a B goal, I'd just start walking at that point. My A goal this marathon will be a PR, but I'm definitely setting the B goal of 2:3X so that I don't completely give up if the PR isn't happening.

                 

                Flavio - I agree with everything you are saying, excpet that 3:15 is not a BOTT type goal. That would be 3:05. 3:10 is a more conservative goal. 3:15 is a good this is my first marathon goal.

                 

                Anyway Steve long way to go for you, just good for discussion in this weird period on this thread where nobody is running a marathon for a month! We are going through another wave of COVID here in NYC and I'm just hoping I can somehow avoid it for the next 6 weeks, which may be tough. Can I catch it on the plane ride back from my marathon? 

                 

                Dear Covid FUCK OFF. Okay. Now. With THAT out of the way...

                 

                I remember seeing male runners sitting on the curb at CIM my second or third time with their heads in their hands, or walking. These were the fast guys (I think I did a 3:13 this year) and I couldn't comprehend stopping in a marathon. Why quit? Just toss in the towel because it didn't go your way? I eventually found out why people would do it when I ran Chicago and the B goal was created on course during the race (Half Marathon PR) and the C goal became "just finish."  I don't think I could set a B goal other than just finish at this point unless my A goal was something like "2:50" and my B goal was "sub 3."

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 54.9

                5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                flavio1980


                Intl. correspondent

                  Keen - Time to go full Darkwave and tape the top of your watch and go by effort instead. I have often removed the auto lap so I will only glance at the watch 2 or 3 times to make sure I'm on the right pace and then I just sort of click into it.

                   

                  Jmac - Yeah I didn't mean 3h15 would be a BOTT target, more like a possible result from going out at 3h20 pace.

                  Keen's target of 2h55 is a true massive BOTT target! And very doable too provided he remains in a vacuum sealed room for the last 3 weeks before the race.

                  PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                  Up next: Portuguese National Master champs 1500m 2022-06-18

                  Tool to generate Strava weekly

                  Fishyone


                    Keen- Thanks. The middle part of Pennsylvania is a strange and unique place.  I ran a race last spring in Lackawaxen PA.  In the middle of nowhere but very pretty countryside. People forget that there is a TON of rural areas with amish farms etc.

                     

                    I'm not a good warm weather runner so I'm not getting super aggressive.  I will be hydrating and concentrating on proper fueling.

                    5K 19:18 (2014), 10K 40:13 (2014), 1/2 1:29:07 (2015), full 2:58:36 (2015) 


                    Speed Surplus

                       

                      March 18th 2012 - HM at 1:33. May 6th 2012 - marathon number 3 at 3:12 (not downhill - loop course with few hills). Weekly mileage for 3 months before FM - 45-60 mpw. It was time before I got obsessed with mileage Smile I think, if you raced FM at HM x 2 + 10+ minutes, you didn't run enough mileage.

                       

                      100% I didn't have enough mileage. I averaged 45 mpw. But I had the most mileage I could attain given my lifestyle at the time (kids were 6 and 3 in 2016 - pretty rough time to expect my wife to solo parent them any additional hours when I wasn't away at work.) The early morning or late night solution wasn't particularly viable either - I've noted my morning running issues and running at night borks my eating schedule (can't run with anything in the stomach or I get reflux). So I mostly ran on my lunch breaks and got as many weekend miles as I could. I did hit 60 a few times, but had a few spotty weeks where life got in the way and I couldn't have the consistency I wanted.

                       

                      That said, it's also true that the marathon simply isn't my strongest distance. I'm on the larger side for a distance runner (height and weight) and I've always been relatively better at the shorter stuff.

                      5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                      JMac11


                      Milkman

                        Keen's 2:55 target offsets all the soft goal setting by the rest of us. Right now my half marathon next Saturday looks LOL bad (after a very cool spring, surprise! 85 degrees next Saturday) but if somehow the forecast changes and I can run a really strong time, I may change my goal from PR to sub 2:35 just because he's inspired me 

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)


                        Elite Jogger

                          First, on the question of having B goals, I think it depends on your personality. There's no way having a B goal would allow me to ease up becuase I feel it's okay to hit that one. Instead, what a B goal does, especially in a marathon, is prevents me from just completely mailing it in when I know the A goal isnt happening. There are times at mile 20 that you just know today is not your day. Without a B goal, I'd just start walking at that point. My A goal this marathon will be a PR, but I'm definitely setting the B goal of 2:3X so that I don't completely give up if the PR isn't happening.

                           

                          Flavio - I agree with everything you are saying, excpet that 3:15 is not a BOTT type goal. That would be 3:05. 3:10 is a more conservative goal. 3:15 is a good this is my first marathon goal.

                           

                          Anyway Steve long way to go for you, just good for discussion in this weird period on this thread where nobody is running a marathon for a month! We are going through another wave of COVID here in NYC and I'm just hoping I can somehow avoid it for the next 6 weeks, which may be tough. Can I catch it on the plane ride back from my marathon? 

                           

                          Covid cases are very low in the UK now since the government stopped handing out free test kits…which means the loons aren’t testing daily anymore. But there seems to be a spike in hayfever conditions recently. 

                          Fishy - I hope you’re feeling fresh and recovered from Boston and good luck! 👍

                           

                          I think B and C goals in a marathon can be useful if there’s an incentive to each goal. I lost count the amount of times my A goal was MM and then went into Sub3 B goal.  Steve has that sub3:20 Chicago qualifying target which I’d suggest as a C goal, sub3:15 as B goal and anything between 3:05/10 as A goal. I think that’s being generous considering he’s already run a marathon TT.

                           

                          Milkman - I know there’s a huge difference between 2:35/2:30…but has it ever crossed your mind to have sub2:30 as a long term goal say in 2 years time?  You’re still young and I think you’ve got the ability, but is it worth it and when do you see yourself retiring from running. 

                          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                          Ian5


                            We are going through another wave of COVID here in NYC and I'm just hoping I can somehow avoid it for the next 6 weeks, which may be tough. Can I catch it on the plane ride back from my marathon? 

                             

                            Tell me about it,I've dodged it despite working in retail for 2 years ,then had a few days in NYC after Boston and tested positive the day we got home.

                            5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                            flavio1980


                            Intl. correspondent

                              I'm on the larger side for a distance runner (height and weight) and I've always been relatively better at the shorter stuff.

                              Though I can't back it up, I also have this feeling.

                              Most of the runners on this board are very light weight 70kg and under (155lb).

                              Im 83kg 184lb, it seems to me absolute weight has a non negligible impact on racing longer distances.

                              You will notice the shorter the race the bigger the runners too on the world championships.

                              I will say though that it's nice to be so heavy when the wind blows hard 😁

                              PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                              Up next: Portuguese National Master champs 1500m 2022-06-18

                              Tool to generate Strava weekly


                              Elite Jogger

                                It would appear that The Waltons are trying to take over this thread now.

                                 

                                Milkman - Be firm as this thread must remain hardcore and not for the faint hearted.

                                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)