Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 half marathon in 2017
James - I agree with Piwi - vacations are a great time to run! I remember hitting what was at the time a record week for me when we were on holiday in Noosa last year.
Flavio - nice 20ker - I saw that as well!
Piwi - you have been crushing those hills!!! I actually struggled a bit today, a bit tired and not enjoying the humidity.
Me - good week up until Sunday. I was planning 3 x 6km HMP tempo blocks and took it easy on Saturday so I'd be fresh. Humid conditions, wind, and I just wasn't feeling it. My goal pace was around 3:45-3:50/km, first block was about that mark but hard going, second block was into the wind and a bit slow, third block I was just feeling really tired so pulled the pin after 3km. I think just a bit of tiredness after Wednesday's race and a busy week at work - I did a 10km tempo at similar pace/faster last week with no issues, so I'll take a rest day tomorrow I think.
M: 9.1km easy
T: weights, 30 mins spin bike
W: 5.5km easy jog (AM), 5km race (16:43) (PM)
Th: 13.8km easy
F: weights, 30 mins spin bike
S: 11.5km easy
S: 25km incl. failed HMP tempo efforts
Total: 71km
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Intl. correspondent
Piwi - I must say I have not seen you this motivated in a while, that challenge is worthy!
Mark - You're showing signs that you're still human haha. Great week!
me - 56km in 4h37. 20K long run and a 6K tempo @ 4:05/km were the workouts of the week.
The temperatures have dropped a little to sub 20C (68F), so now it'd be the ideal time to run a time trial, but I don't feel I'm in my best shape yet. The tempo on Wednesday was a good confidence booster, I'll try another one next week up to 8Km (5mi) and see what happens.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
JamesD
I’ve had cramps in my last three races longer than 10K, and my stomach has been sore off and on for the week since my half. I'd like to figure out what’s going on and what to do about it. I think the first two times resulted from going out too fast for my fitness and going out too fast for the heat & humidity, respectively. I don’t think that’s what happened the most recent time, as I’m fitter, I didn’t go out quickly, and it certainly wasn’t hot. Plus, the cramps started before I had completed a mile. These are not mainly side stitches, but cramps in the right upper stomach near my lowest rib.
Possible causes:
Going out too fast - Nope, I started slowly and was behind the 3:15 marathon pacer for the first 400 meters. I gradually eased ahead, but I wasn’t breathing hard when I started to feel the first cramp.
Cold - It was in the high 40s (8-9 C) at the start but felt colder. It had been hot & humid until about 10 days before the race, so I suppose I may not have been fully acclimated to the cold yet. My teeth were chattering as we waited in the security check line, but it wasn’t as cold inside where I waited for 10 minutes before going out to warm up. I did my usual 5 minutes of jogging, a little stretching, and 4 strides, all wearing extra clothes, and I was sweating when I finished. When I got to the starting line a couple of minutes later, I was warm enough from the warmup & other runners’ body heat that I took off not just my heavy shirt but also my beanie & gloves. Only waited about 5 minutes at the line, and I didn’t feel overly cold.
Fuel - Don’t think it was an electrolyte issue, as I drank lots of Powerade the three days before the race. Had breakfast of a bagel, peanut butter, & half a banana 3 hours before the start, which I’ve done for previous races and had done for the previous several days. Drank a shot of concentrated beet juice about an hour before the race after drinking regular beet juice or shots the four previous days to get my gut accustomed to it; I always do that, except that before the previous race I had tried two shots. I had a package of caffeinated jellybeans about 30 minutes before the race (down from two packages before my previous race), though I only drank about 5 oz. of water with them instead of my usual 8. Didn’t take in anything during the race, but the cramps started so early that that couldn’t have been an issue.
Nutrition - I cut back a lot on fiber and increased carbs the last few days. Despite the lack of fiber, I didn’t have any digestive problems, probably because beet juice seems to prevent them for me.
Muscles - Did have some unusual stomach muscle soreness in the days before the race, but I figured it was just the usual taper situation where everything feels like a potential injury. My dad recently started using a wheelchair, and pushing him on his nursing home’s carpet puts some strain on my legs & core, but the last time I pushed him was six days before the race. One side of my neck was also very sore in the week before the race, though it improved & wasn’t bad by race day. I still have stomach soreness a week after the race. As for strengthening my core, I swam once or twice a week this year (last time a week before the race) & did a core exercise during breaks on my easy runs.
Weight - I’ve lost a few more pounds this year. I assume it’s because I’m running more than before, but being below 125 pounds (57kg) at 6 feet tall (1.82m) may be a sign of a problem.
Stress - Don’t think so. I was pretty relaxed & confident before the race, & there was nothing unusual going on in the rest of my life.
Training - I’ve averaged 25-30 mpw this year, compared to 18 or so last year, so that should’ve helped rather than hurt. In the 16 weeks before the race, I had eight tempo runs of 1.5-4 miles at 6:35-6:45/mile pace, about 5-10 sec./mile faster than I hoped to run in the half. Also had three hill workouts, a 4x1200m track workout, and a 15K race. I tapered the last 2-½ weeks. Don’t see anything there that should cause cramping.
What to do?
1 - I’m seeing a doctor the week after next to rule out anything non-running-related.
2 - I may see a chiropractor as well.
3 - I wonder whether putting some heating rub on my stomach before a race might help, either to reduce the impact of cold weather or just to loosen the muscles. That’s something I can try before a tempo run sometime.
4 - I think I’ll try the SIS gels that Mark uses that don’t require water, just in case the water & jellybeans are contributing to the cramps.
5 - I can do more core exercises like planks and mountain climbers. If pushing my dad’s wheelchair is an issue, I should get used to doing that after a few weeks.
6 - I want to bump up my mileage by 5-10 mpw next year, and I would think that shouldn’t hurt the cramping & might help.
Other ideas? Thanks for your thoughts & suggestions.
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Flavio - yeah I've hit a similar workout before with 3x20 min blocks at HMP - it's tough but manageable. I was definitely feeling a bit flat right from the start so maybe I should've pulled the pin sooner! Anyway great week from you.
James - I'm just going to throw out a few ideas, not claiming to have a definitive solution as medical professionals will know more than me!
1. Diaphragm
I had pain and tightness like you describe (right under the bottom rib, not a side stitch) for a couple weeks after the North Shore Half Marathon earlier this year. Basically, I ran the race with a cold, consequently my breathing was very shallow, and the pain came on towards the end of the race. It hung around on/off for a couple of weeks but was worse running downhill and with harder efforts. My osteo said it was temporary and would come right once I started breathing properly, which it did.
2. Gels
I had a similar cramp when I took a gel without water once during a race (I grabbed a cup which turned out to be empty!!!!). But it was pretty minor and disappeared after a few km's. I would think you would more likely get stomach cramps from not having enough water, and also putting fuel in there, rather than too much water. But I am a big fan of the SIS gels, they have done the trick for me consistently and seem to be pretty widely regarded in terms of being easy on the stomach. I haven't tried the jellybeans so nothing to add there.
3. Core strength
You are quite light for a tall guy (I am 75kg and 5'10). In combination with pushing a wheelchair, maybe you've thrown something out a little bit? My osteopath is very good on alignment stuff but I'm sure a good chiropractor would be too. Building your core strength more might help with this so yeah I'd definitely try some more on that front. Planks and mountain climbers are both great. Try including something for your obliques too (like bicycle crunches on your back).
Thanks, Mark. Sounds like the breathing might be at least part of my trouble. For a while last week I couldn't breathe deeply enough to press my stomach out, just shallowly through the lungs. Doing better now, though. I've had sinus congestion for several weeks, which I have assumed is due to a fall allergy of some sort - maybe that messed up my breathing in last month's 15K and the problem hasn't gone away yet. Hope it resolves itself when my congestion goes away.
James I wonder if you are over preparing for what is only a half marathon. The change of diet the week prior is not necessary in my opinion for a half marathon. As a runner you will be eating enough carbs and hydrating well in the course of a normal running week so no changes are needed. A half marathon is not long enough to run out of fuel reserves so you dont need to carb load.
Your weight is extremely light but you would know what is your healthy weight. Im 5'8 and 67kgs and Im pretty small.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
James - I would almost certainly say the sinus congestion is playing a part. That will mess with your breathing over a period of time and particularly in a higher intensity race environment.
Thanks to both of you. I'll talk to the doctor about the congestion next week. I'll also experiment with not changing my diet as much before a race. When I started carb-loading before halfs three years ago, I was running 12 miles a week and thought that in that context the half effort might be closer to what would be a marathon effort for most people, but now that I'm getting my mileage up to just "low," that's not as much of a concern. I do try to get a lot of protein in my normal breakfast and have read that I shouldn't do that on race mornings, so I think I'll stick with the bagel & banana pre-race. Assume I should still reduce fiber and focus on hydration, just not carbs.
Mark- Congrats on the race and solid week of training.
Champ- Enjoyed the RR. Seems like you did quite well on such a tough course.
Me- Managed just 21 miles (1364 on the year) because I was tied up with family over Thanksgiving but there was one VERY interesting observation. My average HR during my most recent Half was only 138, which is much too low for an all out effort and yes, I really was doing my best.
The very next day, I managed 4@ 7:18, which is right about 10K race pace and actually felt more comfortable than during the early miles of the race. I credit a new supplement called NADH to help boost ATP (source of energy). Some veterans from RWOL may remember that I was attacked personally for running workouts too hard relative to my race times. I countered by saying that the workouts were really NOT that hard and I simply could not access my top gear because of medical issues. This is strong evidence in my favor and could be the missing piece to get me back to form. Of course, it will take time to recover lost fitness.
Goals for the final 5 weeks include a sub-6:00 mile, sub-21 5K and 1500 miles on the year.
Mile: 5:18, 5K: 19:09, 10K: 39:44, Half: 1:28:12, Full: 3:21:56
Post-35 PRs:
Mile: 6:02, 5K: 21:14, 10K: 45:40, Half: 1:42:24
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RIP Milkman
James - Before I comment much further, why do you say they're not stitches? All of my stitches are exactly where you're saying: upper right/left stomach at the bottom of the rib cage. I've had a ton of experience with stitches as I've mentioned before so maybe I can help out more.
Mark - Congrats again!
Piwi - What challenge is in store for December?
Justin - I hope you've found something there! I don't operate with HR but 138 is crazy low for a half. I think my easy runs used to be at that level.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Mark: Were you actually trying to run 18Km @HM pace? I'm not familiar with elite training but Isn't it too much for a tempo pace?
Justin: 138 is very low, It might even low in the aerobic range, depending on your min and max HR. I initially thought about the quality of the HR data but the fact that were able to run a fast workout the day after, proves that you weren't sore from the half. So, my question is more on the lines of why it looked so hard during the HM. Sleep/stress/mental?
James: I also give another hint: You had the same issue in the previous two HMs so, how possible is that you were predisposed to it?
PK: I keep profiting from your mountain climbing to record a higher mileage.
Me: I'm a bit sick. I've a cold and I'm hesitating to go out and run in the cold weather. But I feel I have to
Weekly Summary Monday, Nov 20, 2017 thru Sunday, Nov 26, 2017
Easy week. Completed 2500 miles for the year. Will be reflecting on my races and what I can do better next year in the coming weeks.
JMac - Maybe my definitions are wrong. What I call a side stitch is a dull, heavy pain just above the hip, either on one side of my front or on the side itself. What I'm having, in addition to being in a different place, feels more like an issue with a muscle, almost like something's twisted. The pain is sharper but not as heavy, if that makes sense.
Jaime - I certainly might be predisposed to cramps in longer races, but I don't see why they would start as early as they have in the last two races.. I've run five medium-long races, the same half in 2014, 15, 16, and 17 and a very hilly 15K five weeks before the most recent half. No cramps in the first two, though I had breath shortness episodes in the last few miles of the first one (big negative split) and faded badly in high heat & humidity in the second. I was only running 12 mpw and 14 mpw those two years, so I'm not sure how relevant they are to my current situation (25-30 mpw this year). In the third half, I pushed too hard early for my fitness at the time, so I'm not too surprised that I had chest cramps starting about mile 7. It's the two races this year that have me concerned. Though I ran many more miles, did a few more long runs, and did nearly all my tempo/hill/interval workouts 10 sec/mile or more faster than in previous years, I got cramps at mile 4 and mile 1 of the two races, which is way too early for the relatively slow paces. If I am predisposed to cramping, it's getting worse when I would think my increased training would make it better, and what do I do about it other than consider not racing longer than 10K?
Justin - yeah 138 seems really low for a race HR! I would only be at that level for shorter recovery runs in winter!
Jaime - hope you're feeling better soon! I kinda envy the cold weather as we are coming up to summer here now (and I like winter a lot more). As for that workout... yeah it's a tough one but I've done a similar workout before with 3 x 20 mins at HMP... that time I only had to dig it in on the third block whereas this time I felt off from the start. Just some fatigue I think. I often run 10-13km tempo's, this is a little more but with 2km rests in between the efforts.
AB- Wow. That's some impressive mileage. My PR is 2092 and I'm just hoping to hit 1500 this year.
Jamie and others- I had no external issues prior to my race. Simply put, my body chemistry is out of whack and until that's resolved, I won't come close to my old PRs. I believe that what's holding me back the most is a deficiency of ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate). If you remember from Biology class, that's the molecule that supplies energy for muscle contraction. Without sufficient ATP, I have plenty of endurance in the bank but cannot reach my max heart rate and thus am robbed of my highest gear. That explains how I am able to recover so quickly from "hard workouts" and races. I can come close to race pace in training and it's really not that hard but if try to dig deep into race effort, it's just not there. Hope that explains it but the new treatment offers some hope. No doubt I have the fitness to go sub-1:40. Even as it is, I came pretty close on a course with some tough hills on the back half.