Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 half marathon in 2017
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James - Almost all of my stitches are exactly where you're stating for your other pain. They're just below the rib. They almost feel if I put fingers into my stomach that the pain is above and under the rib. I think what you're describing is that, just a standard runner's stitch. Here's a definition I found, let me know if this is what you have:
A side stitch classically manifests as an aching, stabbing, or sharp stomach pain, just below your ribs.
It’s usually only on one side, and occasionally will be accompanied by pain at the tip of your shoulder on the same side.
I've had the shoulder pain, but it's very rare, like under 1% of my stitches. Anyway, they can get bad enough for me that I want to quit races. They are my number one racing demon, and when they start, a sense of panic can often drown over me, as I never have leg cramps or anything else that often attacks other runners. For me, they tend to occur at the end of races or hard workouts, which most likely is due to shallow breathing. I can't necessarily control them too much though, but if you go back a few pages, you will see how I get them out. I will say, however, that I have gotten stitches early into runs before, and it's 100% due to diet. 3 hours sounds like plenty of time to digest, but it's all individual. However, what gets me more is liquid. If I drink too much liquid right before I run, I get terrible stitches. I need to give myself at least one full hour to digest any liquid in my stomach. For big races, I push it even further out, and will often stop drinking 1.5 hours in advance.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JamesD
JMac - Yeah, that's what I have, though I've never had the associated shoulder-tip pain. Growing up I occasionally had the other kind, the dull pain in the side just above the hip, and that's what I thought was a side stitch.
Interesting that food & liquid cause stitches for you early in runs. I drink a few swallows of sports drink just before almost every training run, so I'm accustomed to at least a little liquid. I'll have to experiment with eating & drinking less and/or earlier before races and long runs. I don't like the idea of getting up to eat before 5am for an 8am race, so maybe I'll just eat less the first time and get up at 4 the second time and see which works better. Assuming you fuel & hydrate while you race marathons (and halfs?), why is it that you're ok doing so during races but not immediately before?
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
JMac/James - I've generally gotten stitches on the side (under the outside of my ribs), whereas the diaphragm issue was much more central (i.e. closer to the middle of the area under the ribs). Side stitches have rarely been an issue for me so perhaps I was too quick to rule it out. The shoulder thing was actually complete news to me!!
With the diaphragm issue I could actually feel a tender spot under my ribs if I hooked my fingers underneath them, this was the case even 12+ hours after running. I'm guessing that wouldn't be there if it was a side stitch so that might be something to test to narrow it down a little.
Either way it still sounds like the congestion is one of the root cause. As for fuel... I generally have very few issues with fuel / liquids other than perhaps feeling a bit bloated, so I'll defer to others like JMac on that front.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
Mark - what you are describing is exactly the pain I have. It's a pain more towards the center than the side (I think side stitch is a bit of a misnomer, it's not like it's in your obliques). But when you dig your fingers under your rib cage, you should feel a sore spot. That's where all my pain is.
James - There's a big difference between drinking during races and before. During a race, you are getting maybe 3-4 oz at each aid station, spaced at least 15 minutes apart. Before a race, you may be taking in too much at once, e.g. 20 oz of sports liquid 30 minutes before your race. I've read that your body can only really handle 16oz of liquid per hour, so if you have any sort of stomach sensitivity issues, drinking anything besides maybe one or two sips within the last hour is usually a no-no. For all my races, that's why I stop drinking water at least an hour beforehand, so that I know it will be completely out of my stomach by the time I start. I've trained my body to be okay with a few oz here and there like during a race, but it took me a while. I remember my first few months taking liquids during my runs would lead to stitches. I also remember one of the worst experiences I had with stitches was when I had a beer about an hour before I ran. All the carbonation did not sit right in my stomach and it was absolutely miserable. It may be a case that sugary drinks for you cause it, or timing, or amount.
Here are a few articles that help explain it and my help you get rid of them.
https://www.runnersworld.com/injury-prevention-recovery/how-to-beat-side-stitches
https://runnersconnect.net/side-stitches-abdominal-pain-causes-and-treatments/
http://running.competitor.com/2015/07/injury-prevention/solving-the-mystery-of-side-stitches-in-runners_132491
Thanks. I never drink more than 8 oz of water half an hour before the race (with the caffeinated jellybeans) and only had 5 oz last time, but I may skip it for a while or push it back to an hour beforehand and see if that helps. As hot as it is here for most of my races, I've been concerned about dehydration, but I expect I'll be ok as long as I drink lots the day before & a little an hour or two before the race..
All this talk about stitches and i got one coming down Papamoa Hills today. It was sharpish and just under my rib cage on the rhs. Didnt last too long though.
Jaime good to hear you beat my mileage this week !
Jmac not sure whats in store for december. Its heating up here now so Im going to have to look at early runs.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Intl. correspondent
James - no idea about the cramps/stitches but hopefully you can get it figured out. Also, ditto on toning down meal changes before a HM. Just eat whatever you normally eat and go easy on that powerade, one per day is plenty.
Assuming you have a healthy weight your weight is just perfect for running. You’re not carrying any extra weight.
Mark - I’m wondering, can you do pistol squats? Sorry if you answered before.
Justin - hopefully you found something that works for you.
Arvind - how many races are you planning for next year? I’d suggest you pick a target PR half marathon and have no races longer than 10K in the 2 months leading to it.
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
Wow, lots of activity here since lat time I checked in! I got side stitches once in a race, after I drank some electrolytes to try to rid myself of cramps in my quads at the last leg of the olympic tri I did this fall. But in that case I drank something I had never practiced with during my training runs so I wasn't too surprised. Right now I also have a sneaking suspicion that the GU chomps I've been taking before/during some long and hard workouts and races have started affecting me negatively, as I took them during the race in addition to some of the worst workouts I had in my training period. I will have to do a more "scientific" test of my hypothesis this time around.
Piwi - Saw the result of that OKC-GS game. Not good. We also lost to the Kings yesterday, although that was without Curry and Durant in the lineup.
Flavio - Here's a brief summary of my last 12 weeks:
Week - Workout 1 - Workout 2 - Long Distance - Total Miles (Notes)
1 - 10x400 - Easy - 10.7 - 23.9
2 - 5x1200 - 4x1 miles cruise - 10.8 - 25.8
3 - 7x800 - 5 tempo - None - 16.1
4 - 3x1600 - 5 tempo - 12.7 - 29.2
5 - Easy - Easy - None - 9.9 (lots of work travel and a tri sprint race on the weekend)
6 - 6x800 - 3 tempo - 11.5 - 23.0 (tempo at 7:05 pace)
7 - 4x1600 - 7 tempo - 12.6 - 30.4
8 - 12x400 - 4 tempo - 12.8 - 25.3 (tempo at 7:01 pace)
9 - 5x1200 - 5 tempo - 11.6 - 28.4 (tempo at 7:05 pace)
10 - 6x800 - 6 tempo - 14.6 - 28.9 (tempo blow up, 7:10 pace, everything felt off)
11 - 2x1600 - 3 tempo - 9.5 - 20.4 (tempo at 6:58 pace)
12 - 3x800 - 3x4 min at 6:57 pace - Race
More miles would help, and I will probably try that for my next cycle, although I've felt really strong on race day off more or less the same program before. I also might have been aiming a hair high for sub-1:33 on this hilly course, where the the "equivalent" pace on flat ground was about 7:00. If the race had been relatively flat, 7:05 is the average pace needed to go sub 1:33.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Piwi - yeah I am not loving the warmer temperatures either. Early is really the only option which is fine during the weeks anyway as I beat the traffic to work. On the weekend, fortunately for me I have a highly effective alarm clock known as my 8 month old daughter who ensures that sleeping in past 6:30am is not an option!
Flavio - yeah I do pistol squats. They are a great exercise for isolating one leg and making all the muscles work together. They are pretty tough and I can normally only get 5-6 reps per set on each leg. I tend to use something to hold to maintain my balance and form while I'm doing them too.
I just checked the Auckland forecast. I can't believe you guys think 22 degrees Celsius is warm weather! There were points in the summer where I was happy with anything below 30C. You guys are so spoiled with your weather, it's never too hot in the summer and it's never too cold in the winter!
Rune - some people still do well at lower mileage. Your training block seems sensible, though you did miss training in 2 of those weeks.
Since you already mentioned it’s not as easy to add more miles…
I’d go with more longer long runs in the 15 to 16 mile range to improve on endurance.
limit the tempo to 6 miles
Maybe switch some of those speed intervals with cruise intervals at HM pace.
Mark - thanks. I can lower myself to a bit under knee level on the right side, but my left side is really, really weak, maybe 10cm above knee level. I hope with training I can get them more level as right now there’s a huge disparity.
Jmac - LOL they're so spoiled right? We do get only mild winters here going as low as -4C (25F), but in summer it goes up to 45C (113F) sometimes. That said, 22C is not good running weather, at least for me 15C and lower is best.
Jmac ha true we are a bit soft but in our defense the humidity is high and the sun will burn you to a cinder here in 30 mins such is the hole in the ozone layer above us.
Rune I have to admit I was backing the Sacramento Kings, love seeing the favorites go down ! OKC then went on to lose the next 2 after beating you guys. They are so inconsistent.
Mark I seem to wake up at 5am anyway although I havent been running till later. Can go for sea swims now too which is nice. I see you did the powerade challenge. Some fast times on there.
Rune - A long run and two tempo runs/workouts a week seems like a lot of quality for <30mpw (and would wear me out, I think). I don't remember seeing you mention injuries, though, so it must be working. Have you experimented with doing less quality, maybe one workout a week instead of two or a long run every other week instead of every week? Seems like that might allow you to go longer on the long runs or harder on the fast ones.
JMac - you are right we shouldn't complain! The humidity can get a bit nasty in early summer but other than that we have it pretty good year-round for running. I should probably stop being precious about it haha. If I lived somewhere like NY I would probably just end up hitting the treadmill big time in the hottest parts of summer.
Piwi - yeah I did the Powerade challenge but didn't race it. Had a planned interval workout so just did that. The current top time of 27 minutes (it's a 9km out and back) is miles ahead of the next best (~31 minutes) which makes me doubt its credibility -nothing stopping you from swiping your wristband then jumping on a bike out to Okahu Bay! It could be legit though as it's not crazy fast.