Forums >General Running>How Long Can Improvement Be Expected?
My personal experience is that performance for the shorter events where speed is more of a factor deteriorates first, but with training I was able to maintain the times I ran in my early 20s into my mid-30s for 800m to 2M. I began to see 10K and HM times slow in my 40s. It's hard to judge after that because of changes in my training and a big drop in mileage. Nonetheless, increases in training can counterbalance the aging factor, as a step up in training when I turned 60 brought me the best times I had run in 3-5 years.
I'm kind of the opposite, I find the short fast stuff easier, but I'm more of a mid distance build. I see steady declines in performance compared to others starting at 3k. Doing a chart of age-graded times for each distance shows the distance that a person is "best" at. The bad achilles prevents me from doing any training for fast events now, so I'm stuck doing something I've never been good at, distance running. As far back as high school, I'd do :50 mile relay splits (low 90's age grade result) even though I was a 800-1500 specialist (high 80's age grade results), and I never broke 1:55 800, 4:05 1500, 9:00 3k in HS, so you can see the drop-off. I knew people that were 8:40 3k runners but couldn't run a :60 400 to save their life.
Another good running calculator:
https://ny.milesplit.com/calc
60-64 age group - University of Oregon alumni - Irreverent and Annoying
Resident Historian
The 10 years was about correct for me, but my running was not a continuous build up. I started late (45, took a 28 year break after HS track). But I played other sports competitively, tennis and basketball, then squash starting at age 36. I was in pretty good shape from squash when friends invivted me to run with them -- that first group run was 16k. As others have mentioned, I built up slowly, but raced a lot caused I enjoyed it. Ran my first marathons (3:23, twice) in my 4th year, off ~50 mpw, and had PR's at all distances through that cycle and the 5th year.
Then I got pushed into a high pressure job, and my running went sideways. Compounded by not knowing how to train properly, got injured, missed months of running, and didn't really get back to volume until I left that job, in my 8th year of running.That triggered a fresh round of PR's at up to 10k at 53, but I blew a shot at a marathon PR by being too aggressive, crashed, tried twice again, missed both on hot days. Then had my first bout of Achilles tendon injuries, which ended the PR's.I eventually learned something about training sensibly, though. Like wcrunner, I built up my training at age 60, and had the best two years of consistent training ever. At 62, I got close to my 10k to half marathon PR's from 9-12 years earlier, but never broke one. I thought I had a shot at the marathon if the weather was perfect... instead I got Boston 2012 (86*+). Apparently I didn't learn about racing sensibly. Adjusted my goal, not enough, damn near killed myself, wound up 40 minutes over my original goal. 5 weeks later, I ruptured that same Achilles tendon. Not taking the offered deferral from Boston was definitely my all-time running mistake PR.
Neil
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------“Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson
LOL!
The best way to keep improving is to not get injured!
Taking 1-8 months off from running because of achilles, PF, soleus, IT band, etc. is not conducive to improvement.
Just thought I'd do an addendum to this thread. I was told that I could continue to expect pretty rapid improvement for a while since I only started in February 2019. I started this thread talking about a tempo run time of 43:49 for a 10K. I knocked 5 seconds off that shortly afterwards but didn't really try to push as it got hot and conditions weren't ideal.
Well, today was a perfect day for July - 66 degrees, dew point 61, and light wind. I'm also on vacation so could run in the morning which is my best time. I was pretty surprised that I crushed that previous time with a 42:19 for the same 10K course. I again pushed but didn't go 100% all out. Now I'm starting to think that my long term goal of beating 41:15 from 30 years ago is possible. I knocked 1:25 off my time so I only have 1:05 to go. I'm sure that's going to be harder but maybe I'm still riding that time period of rapid improvement.
I did a positive split which is unusual for me. I should have been able to at least hold an even time.
Overall: 42:19
First half: 21:02
Second half: 21:17
Overall pace: 6:49/mile
Thanks again for the feedback and encouragement.
Personal Records:
5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)
10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021
8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021
Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020
Jason sorry if you have already mentioned but what weekly mileage are you hitting ?
If it's not that high then a steady increase could easily see you go sub 40 for 10k.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
SMART Approach
I again pushed but didn't go 100% all out. Now I'm starting to think that my long term goal of beating 41:15 from 30 years ago is possible. I knocked 1:25 off my time so I only have 1:05 to go. I'm sure that's going to be harder but maybe I'm still riding that time period of rapid improvement. I did a positive split which is unusual for me. I should have been able to at least hold an even time. Overall: 42:19 First half: 21:02 Second half: 21:17 Overall pace: 6:49/mile Thanks again for the feedback and encouragement.
I again pushed but didn't go 100% all out. Now I'm starting to think that my long term goal of beating 41:15 from 30 years ago is possible. I knocked 1:25 off my time so I only have 1:05 to go. I'm sure that's going to be harder but maybe I'm still riding that time period of rapid improvement.
This sounds more like a time trial than a tempo run to me. Firstly, 42 min is too aggressive for a fast tempo (unless elite runner) or around 15 sec per mile slower than true 10K race pace. If a tempo you should have no issue running a negative split depending on weather conditions and knowing what your true fitness is. A 10K is a great distance for a progressive tempo but trying to hold true fast tempo pace (20-25 min typical) usually turns into a race type effort without having the adrenaline of race day. That is ok though. Either way, who cares....you noticed progress and feel great about. This is what is most important. Kudos.
Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery
Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training
Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique
www.smartapproachtraining.com
Jason sorry if you have already mentioned but what weekly mileage are you hitting ? If it's not that high then a steady increase could easily see you go sub 40 for 10k.
Yes, I've discussed the subject on here quite a bit. I'm following a modified 'Run Less, Run Faster' program only running three days per week so my weekly mileage is on the lower side. I do the long run and the tempo run but my third run is mostly easy but sometimes includes fartlek.
If you're running 42:19 in a random mid-week "tempo run" then I'd say you're already capable of much faster than 41:15. In a race you should aim for sub-40.
Runners run
You're probably right about it being closer to a time trial. Most often for this run, I build its speed as it progresses and run a fairly significant negative split. I almost always finish the run with a sprint at around 90-95% effort but then I do a cooldown followed by foam rolling and stretching.
Thanks.
Yeah, as I mentioned to Tchuck, this was closer to a time trial though it wasn't at 100% effort. Without racing venues, I'll probably do this type of test every 6-8 weeks to see how I'm progressing. It will be interesting to see how long it takes me to beat 41:15. I'm sure the improvement curve will start slowing down pretty soon.