2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 276 times)

CommanderKeen


Cobra Commander Keen

    Mark - Solid week, and great vert on the LR.


    Flavio - You have to calm down the training after 40?? I'm going to not listen to that in a few months.


    Merkle - Hashawa? Sounds like a race one of the Kiwis would have run. Good performance despite the slower time, especially with everyone else being slow, too.

     

    DWave - Nice week. Too bad about the comments, those are usually pretty good.


    I'm happy with my week overall (had a 7-day rolling total ~300m shy of 100 miles thanks to moving the previous week's LR). Failed twice to complete my squat sets (225lb/102.25kg), though I did much better the second time. Ended up not lifting my planned 3rd workout after the LR, figured I'd give my legs a bit more rest and get back to my usual M/W/F scheme.
    I also very suddenly went from being decided for the 5000m to almost certainly against it. It'll interfere with my usual workout flow and will certainly be a slow time (likely around 2o minutes after adjusting for the heat). On the other hand, it would be a hard race effort, which *might* be helpful towards the road 5k the next week.
    Also: I've hit the gravel roads for my last couple LRs when I've otherwise avoided them ever since that gravel 100. Not sure of the "why" either way there.

     

    Weekly for period: From: 06/10/2024 To 06/16/2024

    <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
    in ft
    06/10 3 x (1 mi I, 2 x 400 R) 11.68 18.79 01:26:36 07:25 04:37 289
    06/10 1 rabbit 5.06 8.13 00:44:34 08:48 05:29 226
    06/11 14 rabbits, 4 turkeys, & 1 three-toed box turtle 8.00 12.88 01:13:30 09:11 05:42 312
    06/11 Afternoon Weight Training 0.00 0.00 00:54:41 00:00 00:00 0
    06/12 6 x 2K "T 12.81 20.61 01:32:57 07:15 04:31 295
    06/12 14 x 1:00 "T" 7.76 12.49 01:02:46 08:05 05:02 295
    06/13 11 rabbits 8.00 12.88 01:12:58 09:07 05:40 302
    06/13 Lunch Weight Training 0.00 0.00 01:19:11 00:00 00:00 0
    06/14 14 rabbits, 1 great horned owl, 1 deer (1 stride), & 1 three-toed box turtle 10.01 16.10 01:25:17 08:31 05:18 377
    06/14 1 red eared slider (twice) 4.00 6.44 00:35:58 09:00 05:35 164
    06/15 11 rabbits, 3 ornate box turtles, 2 hawks, & 1 deer (1 stride) 17.01 27.36 02:21:43 08:20 05:11 797
    06/16 2 rabbits 5.05 8.13 00:45:32 09:01 05:36 226

    Totals: Time: 14:35:43 - 🦅Imperial: 89.39 mi - Metric: 143.82 km

    5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

     

    Upcoming Races:

     

    August 31 - Brookhaven 5k

    October 13 - Prairie Fire Half

    November 2  - Crossroads Marathon

     

    Marky_Mark_17


      Flavio - 9 day plan is interesting. My brain honestly would struggle with anything other than weekly tbh.

       

      mmerkle - glad you enjoyed the run titles. Good job on the XC. I hate XC with a passion. It's like all the misery of trails with none of the fun, none of the adventure, and generally none of the scenery.  I generally run everything fasted, including long runs of 2 to 2.5 hours.  I will take fuel on those though, so I generally don't crash at all.

       

      Darkwave - I'm honestly shocked your shoe came undone.  That's one thing that has literally never happened to me, I always double knot.  There's been occasions where I've had to take my shoe off because of a stone or something but I've never had one come undone!

       

      Keen - I've no idea how you fit 3 weights workouts in a week, as well as that much running. I struggle to get one in, and less running than you! Impressive work.

      3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

      10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

      * Net downhill course

      Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

      Up next: Still working on that...

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      wcrunner2


      Are we there, yet?

        I've been preoccupied with race taper, heading out early for the race to volunteer Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, then finally ran my race Monday.

         

        Anxious to get home after my race, so drove 15 hours today (Tuesday, June 18th, the day after the race).

         

        Six Days in the Dome 12-Hour went much, much better than D3. Finished with 35.82 miles for 12 hours and crushed the last hour so I could reach 130 laps, 10 more than last year. That's 4.4345 km more.

         

        Watched 5 runners meet the qualifying standards (140 miles/225.3 km for men, 125 miles/201.2 km for women) for the US 24 Hour National Team in the invitational race over the weekend.

         2024 Races:

              03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

              05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
              06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
              10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

         

         

             

        flavio80


          WCRunner - Awesome job!

           

          Mark - If it helps, FinalSurge still shows it 7 days at a time heh

           

          Keen - Calm down!! 😂

          It's funny how our frame of reference changes. Just a few years ago a 40 year old was as old as Methuselah for me.

          Now a 40 year old is like a baby in diapers to me.

          I thought you would want to know about the SQUAT strength standards.

          The table below uses body weight ratio and is based on your 1 max rep.

          For reference:

          1. Lighter people have it easier than heavier people.

          2. Shorter people have it easier than taller people (something to do with limb length)

          I'm 80kg and my max squat is 106kg, so I'm novice.

          You're already intermediate (Probably very close to 2x body weight) and you're still getting started, I have to assume things will start getting harder at some point near advanced for you.

          https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/squat/lb

          Also deadlift, for the curious -> https://strengthlevel.com/strength-standards/deadlift

           

          Males:

          Strength Level Bodyweight Ratio
          Beginner 0.75x
          Novice 1.25x
          Intermediate 1.50x
          Advanced 2.25x
          Elite 2.75x
          Calbears 779x

           

          Females:

          Strength Level Bodyweight Ratio
          Beginner 0.50x
          Novice 0.75x
          Intermediate 1.25x
          Advanced 1.50x
          Elite 2.00x

          PRs: 800m 2:31.7 Aug 2019 | 1500m 4:54.1 Sep 2019 | 5K 17:53 Mar 2023

          wcrunner2


          Are we there, yet?

            Wish I were back in the Dome running in 55F/13C temps.  I returned home to a heatwave with temps 90F or hotter (32C).

             

            Race report:

            https://wcrunner2.blogspot.com/2024/06/2024-six-days-in-dome-12-hour-revising.html

             2024 Races:

                  03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                  05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                  06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                  10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

             

             

                 

            CommanderKeen


            Cobra Commander Keen

              Flavio - 40 (or being close to it) doesn't bother me at all, particularly when I can just look around and I'm obviously (and somewhat sadly) in far better shape than guys half my age.


              In past couple of weeks I've been asked a variant of the same question twice - "How are your knees with all of your running/lifting?" Both have the same answer: "Doing great, no problems at all. Or to put it another way: far better than all the soccer dads I know who don't run/lift."

               

              Given that I've only ever done 5x5 it's really difficult to get an idea of what my 1RM for any of the lifts would be.
              Some of this owes to the fact that I usually have 10+ miles and maybe a workout in my legs from earlier in the morning, but for most of my lifts I'm essentially at the most I can do right now. Squats, OHP (though I broke through a big plateau last time), bench, barbell row. Basically everything except DL, lol. I think with this I'll probably fix my workouts at about where I am now (tough, but can get them all done) and just stay there until it's not much of a stimulus any longer then add a tiny plate per side and repeat the process.
              Also: I got a kick out of your modified chart.

               

              WCR - Have the RR queued up, it's a slow day at work today and this will be a good read.

              5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

               

              Upcoming Races:

               

              August 31 - Brookhaven 5k

              October 13 - Prairie Fire Half

              November 2  - Crossroads Marathon

               

              mmerkle


                Flavio - 40 (or being close to it) doesn't bother me at all, particularly when I can just look around and I'm obviously (and somewhat sadly) in far better shape than guys half my age.


                In past couple of weeks I've been asked a variant of the same question twice - "How are your knees with all of your running/lifting?" Both have the same answer: "Doing great, no problems at all. Or to put it another way: far better than all the soccer dads I know who don't run/lift."

                 

                Given that I've only ever done 5x5 it's really difficult to get an idea of what my 1RM for any of the lifts would be.
                Some of this owes to the fact that I usually have 10+ miles and maybe a workout in my legs from earlier in the morning, but for most of my lifts I'm essentially at the most I can do right now. Squats, OHP (though I broke through a big plateau last time), bench, barbell row. Basically everything except DL, lol. I think with this I'll probably fix my workouts at about where I am now (tough, but can get them all done) and just stay there until it's not much of a stimulus any longer then add a tiny plate per side and repeat the process.
                Also: I got a kick out of your modified chart.

                 

                WCR - Have the RR queued up, it's a slow day at work today and this will be a good read.

                What I want to know is how you are doing these huge tempo sessions and mileage with the lifting. Do you avoid going to or near failure I guess? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I don't usually go to failure. For me, 6 X 2k tempo is already an enormous workout, and then later that day you threw down another 14 X 1 minute tempo. And that was the day after lifting. I am still getting really sore in my glutes, and sometimes hamstrings the next day after lifting.

                wcrunner2


                Are we there, yet?

                   

                  And he said that I was running too many anaerobic workouts, gotta calm down a bit after 40, oops!

                   

                  Oh yeah, on my last day before the new coach I ran an 800m time trial and got a bit better, 2:34 with splits of 35/37/41/41 .

                   

                   

                  You can run too many anaerobic workouts at 20 as well. It's finding the right balance for you that's the challenge.  In my 40s I found one good interval workout a week was fine.  Adding one run that included some tempo work was enough, with the rest being easy to moderately long.  There's also a fine line on how fast the intervals should be.  Even 2 seconds too fast on 400s can leave you too tired to race well.

                   2024 Races:

                        03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                        05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                        06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                        10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

                   

                   

                       

                  wcrunner2


                  Are we there, yet?

                    Flavio - 9 day plan is interesting. My brain honestly would struggle with anything other than weekly tbh.

                     

                     

                    It sounded more like a 3 week plan with 9 quality workouts spread over that time.  What I use is a 10 day cycle rather than a 7 day cycle to fit the week. Flavio's sounds more like a 21 day cycle.

                     2024 Races:

                          03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                          05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                          06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                          10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

                     

                     

                         

                    wcrunner2


                    Are we there, yet?

                      Flavio - 40 (or being close to it) doesn't bother me at all, particularly when I can just look around and I'm obviously (and somewhat sadly) in far better shape than guys half my age.

                       

                       

                      I have to look back a long way to see 40.  I did run some of my best track races then, including 4:49 for 1500m at 44 and 2:17 for 800m at 46.

                       2024 Races:

                            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                            05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                            10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

                       

                       

                           

                      CommanderKeen


                      Cobra Commander Keen

                        What I want to know is how you are doing these huge tempo sessions and mileage with the lifting. Do you avoid going to or near failure I guess? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I don't usually go to failure. For me, 6 X 2k tempo is already an enormous workout, and then later that day you threw down another 14 X 1 minute tempo. And that was the day after lifting. I am still getting really sore in my glutes, and sometimes hamstrings the next day after lifting.

                         

                        Ummm.... I don't really know. Honestly. I just don't get sore for whatever reason. And those double workouts I'm not doing the second session at the same pace as the morning one - I'm rather carefully adjusting for the conditions, so the paces might 20+ sec/mi slower.

                         

                        The lifting program I'm doing (StrongLifts 5x5) starts really light (literally just the 45lb bar) and each session you complete all of gets you 5lbs total added to those lifts the next time you do them. If you don't get all 5 sets of 5 for a lift three sessions is a row you deload 10% and start the progression over from there. This linear progression takes quite a while, but I have gotten to the point that I'm at/near failure for most lifts.

                        OHP I've failed 3x in a row maybe 3 or 4 times at the same weight (90lbs) and only just got all those sets done the most recent time I lifted (trying 95lbs today!).

                        Squats I just failed 3x in a row trying to get 225lbs, so I dropped down to 200lbs and am working my way up again.

                        Bench (135lb) I very nearly failed on my last rep of the last set - thankfully I had asked for help from a spotter.

                        Barbell row (145lbs, I think) I felt like I was getting closer to failure most recently. For this and the bench (particularly this one) it's rather likely that I'll fail at least one set the next time I try.

                        Deadlifts (190lbs attempt later today) isn't easy, but I haven't gotten close to failure yet. It's just taking a while to build up there at 5lb increments.

                        5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                         

                        August 31 - Brookhaven 5k

                        October 13 - Prairie Fire Half

                        November 2  - Crossroads Marathon

                         

                        flavio80


                          WCRunner - That's a lot of miles any way you slice it. Kudos for a great performance and it seems your fitness trending in a good direction.\
                          You had some wheels in your 40s and I can only hope to go near those times.
                          You're definitely right that I was flying too close to the sun with my anaerobic workouts.
                          Also, it's really a 9 day block or pattern.
                          Easy Easy Workout Easy Easy Workout Easy Easy Long Run.
                          In 3 weeks it will actually have 7 workouts.
                          And it will take 9 weeks before the workouts fall on the same week days again.

                           

                          Keen - Woah, with this rate of progress you should be able to compete in the male division in your next ultra race 
                          I'm fairly certain you can do at least 1.25x your current squat weight for 1 rep max, so around 125kg.
                          You will see that progress with weights is very similar to progress with running, it's plateaus and break throughs.
                          I can't help but chuckle at the fact you just won't get sore. "Big Pharma hates this guy for this strange behaviour!"

                           

                          me - Nice week. My pectoral minor injury reoccurred from doing over head press with my arms slightly more open than usual.

                          I definitely need to work on that range with lower weights.

                          Anyway, it was bothering me a lot so I managed to book a session at the corner PT clinic, and as usual, the PT worked her magic and I was pretty much good again today.

                          6x1000@LactateThreshold + 400m E 3:53.8, 4:00.4, 3:51.6, 3:55.3, 3:53.4, 4:00.5
                          30' E
                          60' E + 4 strides
                          3x (4x 300 I + 100E )
                          30' E
                          60' E + 4 strides
                          90' Long Run

                          PRs: 800m 2:31.7 Aug 2019 | 1500m 4:54.1 Sep 2019 | 5K 17:53 Mar 2023

                          wcrunner2


                          Are we there, yet?


                            Also, it's really a 9 day block or pattern.
                            Easy Easy Workout Easy Easy Workout Easy Easy Long Run.
                            In 3 weeks it will actually have 7 workouts.
                            And it will take 9 weeks before the workouts fall on the same week days again.

                             

                             

                            Okay, I'm not sure how I misunderstood.  That is very similar to my schedule. The main difference is that my 10th day is another long run.  I think I need the regular back-to-back long runs because my pace is so slow that I can't get the 25-35K long runs that are more typical without going well past my 3 hour limit.

                             2024 Races:

                                  03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                                  05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                                  06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                                  10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

                             

                             

                                 

                            mmerkle


                              Commander Gotcha, I was just wondering. That program sounds cool. Nice and simple.

                               

                              Steve Let's hear about this race.

                               

                              My Week

                               

                               

                              Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                              in ft
                              06/17 Old Man Yog Around Yonder 5.06 8.14 00:41:15 08:09 05:04 279
                              06/17 It's now the time of year that cold showers become pleasant. 5.03 8.10 00:40:39 08:05 05:01 256
                              06/18 Morning Run 5.04 8.11 00:40:34 08:03 05:00 197
                              06/18 Afternoon Run 5.06 8.15 00:39:53 07:53 04:54 292
                              06/19 Lunch Run 10.05 16.17 01:22:51 08:15 05:07 427
                              06/20 Morning Run 5.04 8.11 00:41:24 08:13 05:06 246
                              06/20 Afternoon Run 5.08 8.17 00:41:25 08:09 05:04 262
                              06/21 Warm up 2.03 3.26 00:17:16 08:30 05:18 59
                              06/21 8 X (400 fast / 400 jog) 3.99 6.43 00:27:16 06:50 04:14 0
                              06/21 Melting death march cool down 1.03 1.66 00:08:48 08:33 05:18 13
                              06/22 Wounded back in the '83 summer heat 10.05 16.18 01:21:53 08:09 05:04 650
                              06/23 Lunch Run 9.54 15.36 01:14:52 07:51 04:52 322

                              Totals: Time: 08:58:06 - 🦅Imperial: 67.02 mi - Metric: 107.83 km

                               

                              For those on the other side of the globe, it is HOT OVER HERE. My past 3 runs have been in 31-34 Celcius. I need to start getting up earlier. Today I stuck to the trails to keep in the shade, but then a bunch of horseflies and other awful bugs harrassed the shit out of me. Next up in the series is a 5k this Thursday. It's going to be hot and hilly, making a sub 17 pretty gosh darn unlikely. 

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                After a few weeks building, this was a peak mileage week before having a bit of a recovery week.  Tues and Wed were an absolute slog and I was already looking forward to the recovery week at that point.  Mentally I'd written off Thursday's track session so figured I'd just run it by feel and not push it.  Despite it being pretty windy up there, it actually ended up being one of my best workouts in months.  I didn't push the pace (until a sprint at the end of the last repeat) and felt nice and controlled throughout - at one point a km split came up on my watch that I didn't quite believe and assumed there was weird GPS happening, until the same thing happened again shortly after.  Saturday's long run was my longest in several months as well, so all in all a decent week that finished a lot better than it started.

                                 

                                Weekly for period: From: 17/06/2024 To 23/06/2024

                                <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                                Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                                in m
                                17/06 That run where I guess “craft beer free house” means a house that is free of craft beer 5.33 8.58 00:40:04 07:31 04:40 8
                                18/06 That run where deadzone is life 11.45 18.43 01:15:09 06:34 04:05 21
                                19/06 That run where there’s barefoot runners in Kohimarama 9.96 16.02 01:11:04 07:08 04:26 24
                                20/06 That run where I’m not gonna go too hard today, he said 9.41 15.14 00:54:31 05:48 03:36 14
                                21/06 That run with the winter solstice and a pretty impressive full moon 8.59 13.83 01:01:23 07:09 04:26 154
                                22/06 That run where waning gibbous is the weirdest-named lunar phase 18.65 30.01 02:12:30 07:06 04:25 289

                                Totals: Time: 07:14:41 - 🦅Imperial: 63.40 mi - Metric: 102.01 km

                                3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                                10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                * Net downhill course

                                Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

                                Up next: Still working on that...

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"