2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 275 times)

mt79


    Mark - grats on the fast week!

     

    Flavio - they don’t have open fun meets anywhere?  They used to have I think it was called “all comers” meets, where people just show up and race.  

    Dave - Grats on 30k!!

     

    I had a solid week of walking.  7 days walking, 2 moderate arc trainer sessions, 2 paddle board sessions.  Foot still needs to heal.  

    I’m going to jog a 2 mile race with my 8 year old later in July.  I’m considering racing a 5k in August, just to see where I am physically.  It would be nice to beat my 19:57 from March.  I think sub 19:30 would be a reasonable goal, targeting sub 19 in Sep/Oct.  If I could do some running, it would probably help. 😁

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      MT79 - I do recommend training for running by running, though of course there's always Parker Valby.

       

      Mikkey - no insight on Barcelona or Rome, but most people I know don't think much of the LA marathon.  When people from my area travel to the West Coast to race, they almost NEVER pick the LA Marathon as their goal race, and I think that's telling.  I think the biggest concern is that it's usually a warm race with no shade.

       

      MarkyMark - I imagine very few people seek out that 2K hill for the joy of running up it.

       

      Flavio - interesting warm-up for the 800,  Good luck!

       

      Dave - quick question - when you ran that workout with the fastest 1200 first, was your heart rate where you expected it to be?  Or lower?  I ask because I understand that as we get older, our heart rates take longer to adjust to effort,

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      DavePNW


         

        Dave - quick question - when you ran that workout with the fastest 1200 first, was your heart rate where you expected it to be?  Or lower?  I ask because I understand that as we get older, our heart rates take longer to adjust to effort,

         

        I’ve never run by HR. I never had a HRM and have never known what it is or should be. It’s only with my current watch I started using about 6 months ago that it even gets tracked, via wrist HRM. But I don’t look at it. Looking back at the workouts now—HR was much higher for the workout that started faster. No idea how accurate the watch is. I mainly attribute the workout starting faster to the fact that I ran it on a day off work. So whereas I usually run first thing in the morning, fasted, that one was a bit later in the morning after I’d eaten breakfast.

        Dave

        DavePNW


           

          Mikkey - no insight on Barcelona or Rome, but most people I know don't think much of the LA marathon.  When people from my area travel to the West Coast to race, they almost NEVER pick the LA Marathon as their goal race, and I think that's telling.  I think the biggest concern is that it's usually a warm race with no shade.

           

           

          Yeah even for those of us who live on the west coast—I don’t know many people who run it. A more attractive spring race in California is Napa Valley.

          Dave

          SteveChCh


          Hot Weather Complainer

            I'm back in reality now after a nice holiday and ready to get some structure back into training, and catch up on everyone else's training here.

             

            Fiji is a hard place to run, thankfully I was just in a maintenance week and didn't have to push at all.  All my non-treadmill runs were at about 8am with high sun.  Strava says 25-27C (77-81F) with 85-90% humidity - it felt worse than that but maybe that's because I was coming from running in 0-5C (32-41F).  All my clothes were completely wet through and waterlogged after a run, as wet as if I just jumped into a pool fully clothed.  There was no easy access to a washing machine so I decided to just use and destroy one set of running clothes which lived outside and didn't come back to NZ with me.  My shoes were always soaked too which wasn't good for blisters, and they wouldn't get dry even when left in the hot sun all day.  The roads aren't great and the stray animals made me nervous.  It didn't always feel safe but heaps of people called out "Bula!" as I went past, and of course, quite a few looked at me like I was insane.

             

            My legs pulled up really well from Wellington and feel ready to go.  I'll have a couple of sessions with some speed before the 5km on July 20 but not a lot so I won't expect too much.  If I manage somewhere around 19 minutes I think I'll be pretty happy.  Just need to make sure I'm nice and warm - last winter I did a Park Run in July and had a very slow first km which cost me in the end.

             

            Weekly for period: From: 01/07/2024 To 07/07/2024

            <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
            Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
            in m
            01/07 Warm up 0.32 0.52 00:03:10 09:54 06:05 0
            01/07 Fiji Treadmill Run - Easy 10km 6.36 10.23 00:54:07 08:31 05:17 0
            03/07 Warm up 0.35 0.56 00:03:30 10:00 06:15 5
            03/07 Easy 10km (plus 2km tax for getting lost) from the Fiji Orchid 7.47 12.02 01:04:27 08:38 05:22 69
            04/07 Warm up 0.35 0.57 00:03:28 09:54 06:05 4
            04/07 Easy 10km 6.34 10.20 00:54:07 08:32 05:18 98
            05/07 Warm up 0.35 0.56 00:03:14 09:14 05:46 4
            05/07 Easy 10km 6.36 10.23 00:54:50 08:37 05:22 99
            06/07 Warm up 0.35 0.56 00:03:20 09:31 05:57 5
            06/07 Easy hour 7.10 11.42 01:01:12 08:37 05:22 113
            07/07 Recovery 4.57 7.35 00:40:36 08:53 05:31 17

            Totals: Time: 05:46:01 - 🦅Imperial: 39.92 mi - Metric: 64.24 km

            5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

             

            2024 Races:

            Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

            Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

            Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

            Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

            Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

            Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

            Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

            Marky_Mark_17


              Flavio - While the 1500m is still largely aerobic, I'm guessing the 800m has a much higher anaerobic component to it?  I'm not on tiktok so I guess I must be too old for it lol.

               

              Dave - most workouts, I take a rep or two to warm up properly as well. Congrats on the 30k milestone!

               

              mt79 - doing races with your kids is awesome fun. My 7yo and I are doing a trail series at the moment, she is loving it (especially the mud).

               

              Steve - after my trip to Malaysia last year, I can imagine how rough Fiji would be for running. At least on Denarau you can kinda do laps of the island and its relatively safe in terms of traffic.  You won't know what hit you with CHC temps this week!

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Runway5 / National 5k Champs, 16:22, National Masters AG Champ!

              Up next: Still working on that...

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                 

                I’ve never run by HR. I never had a HRM and have never known what it is or should be. It’s only with my current watch I started using about 6 months ago that it even gets tracked, via wrist HRM. But I don’t look at it. Looking back at the workouts now—HR was much higher for the workout that started faster. No idea how accurate the watch is. I mainly attribute the workout starting faster to the fact that I ran it on a day off work. So whereas I usually run first thing in the morning, fasted, that one was a bit later in the morning after I’d eaten breakfast.

                 

                I think this point probably explains the difference between the two - especially the part about starting later in the morning.

                 

                Steve - welcome back.  Fiji does not sound like a runner's paradise.

                 

                My week (finally posted one):

                 

                51 miles of running and 7 "miles" pool-running
                M: 7 miles very easy (9:43) + upper body weights/core.
                T: 10 miles on the track, including a tempo workout of 3200, 1600 in 14:14 (7:09/7:05) and 7:02 with 5:30 recovery between the two. Followed with 2x200m in 50 and 49, and then some leg strengthwork.
                W: 9 miles very easy on trails (10:19) in the morning; streaming yoga in evening.
                Th: 4 miles very easy (9:51) in the morning before cheering at a 5K, then hitting the gym for upper body weights and core.
                F: 9 miles on the track, including 3x1600 at tempo effort (7:17, 7:05, 7:02) with recoveries of ~2:00 and ~2:30 between the two. Followed with 2x200m in 51 and 51, and then injury prevention work.
                Sa: 12 miles aerobic (intended to be easy, but HR got out of control because it was hot) (9:29) followed with two hill strides and streaming pilates.
                Su: 7 "miles" pool-running and streaming yoga.

                I did not race this week.  Since I've done a LOT of racing and short fast intervals, I focused on tempo work with a few 200s as a way to refresh myself (it worked).

                 

                Next weekend is a track meet in Alabama (it's the national para-athlete championships - called the Hartford Nationals).  The weather there is potentially Fiji-esque....

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                mt79


                  Dave - I have come to appreciate HR tracking.  The consensus seems to be that you should do roughly 80% of your training in Zone 1 heart rate in the 3 zone system, or zone 2 of the 5 zone system.  I think most amateur runners run too little of their mileage at these lower intensities.  

                  You don’t need to wear a chest strap every run, but figuring out your appropriate easy pace for the current fitness/heat/humidity and then resetting every couple weeks makes sense.  Figuring out your HR zones is such low hanging fruit these days that every runner should do it.  I would invest in a chest strap if you want something accurate.  

                  DW - I miss running.  At least I can walk now.  BTW, I discovered the arc trainer when Parker Valby was about 8 years old, so I’m kind of a trailblazer 😜. I’m confident I’ll run a low 19 5k off of just cross training.  Aerobic fitness trumps everything.  Just how bad my foot feels after that 5k is my real concern.

                  mmerkle


                    flavio Thanks for chiming in on the 5k. You're probably right, I'm not being patient. I just want to be fast.

                     

                    mt79 I'm doing races every 2 weeks for the summer series I'm running, but the distance changes each week. Maybe I could hop into another 5k, but you're probably onto something with the weather. I might realistically have to shoot for sub 17 in the Fall.

                     

                    Mark Monster track workout.

                     

                    Dave What was the rest for those 1200s? Looks like maybe 90 seconds? I think even if the weather is bad, you can run 6:30 pace. If the weather is decent and you're having a good day then your goal is more doable. The heat can make a big difference. It's been kicking my ass in races.

                     

                    dw Which events are you running at the upcoming track meet?

                     

                    My Week

                     

                     

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    07/01 Warm up 4.04 6.51 00:31:55 07:54 04:54 210
                    07/01 One of my favorite Jack Daniels workouts 3.55 5.71 00:22:00 06:12 03:51 69
                    07/01 Cool down 2.03 3.26 00:17:01 08:23 05:13 46
                    07/02 Morning Run 3.02 4.87 00:23:24 07:45 04:48 49
                    07/02 Afternoon Run 7.05 11.34 00:53:24 07:34 04:43 374
                    07/03 Lunch Run 7.03 11.32 00:58:00 08:15 05:07 302
                    07/04 Happy 248th Birthday America !!! 17.01 27.38 02:48:04 09:53 06:08 2241
                    07/05 Insert generic trash talk about how east coast heat is worse than mid west and west coast heat 6.02 9.69 00:51:14 08:31 05:17 328
                    07/07 New Territory 4.03 6.49 00:40:45 10:07 06:17 522
                    07/07 Treadmill: 20 min easy, 20 min steady/progressive at 7% incline, 20 min easy 7.00 11.27 01:00:00 08:34 05:19 725

                    Totals: Time: 08:45:47 - 🦅Imperial: 60.80 mi - Metric: 97.83 km

                     

                    Fun week celebrating Americas birthday. But too much alcohol and my sleep schedule is way off. Been going to sleep at like 2am. Gotta dial it back. The heat has been really bad most days. I'll probably start hitting the treadmill more. I can get more work done when I'm not overheating. 

                     

                    Might randomly hop into an evening 5k Tuesday. Right now that's about 50/50. I'm skipping the series race this Thursday to go to a concert with friends (Dr. Dog if anyone knows who that is). I haven't done that in a very long time so I don't feel too guilty. 

                    CommanderKeen


                    Cobra Commander Keen

                      Mark - Solid week there, and I like the "I would have won if the other guy hadn't been an Olympian..." bit.


                      Flavio - Good luck on your chase for 800m glory. It still strange to me that you can even think to find races that short.


                      Dave - Woah, that's a pretty huge milestone. Congratulations.


                      Steve - "Bula"?
                      Aside from being a sucky place to run, how was Fiji?


                      DWave - Looking forward to seeing the results from that meet. And I'd be shocked if the weather there wasn't Fiji-esque.


                      Merkle - Nice week. 2am?? I haven't been up that late in many years, and even longer if you count voluntarily.


                      I had a rather unremarkable week and squeaked under 19 minutes in my Independence Day 5k. Much slower than I expected even given the heat/humidity/wind, but looking at the race in Stryd perhaps it's not as bad as I thought. Power numbers actually increased a bit during the race, so I wasn't slowing down for lack of speed endurance.
                      I did manage to win my 10-year age group (as the old guy in the AG), though, and the kid who finished a few seconds ahead of me was not only less than half my age but was also from Flagstaff (the USA's altitude training running Mecca), so those are nice consolations.

                       

                      I also made an impulse purchase that didn't work out at all. I decided I'd try the new Saucony Endorphin Elite 2s, The trouble with this is that they sent me a pair that's three sizes too small. Does anyone wear a 9.5??? lol

                       

                      Weekly for period: From: 07/01/2024 To 07/07/2024

                      <caption>Weekly Grid</caption>
                      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      07/01 1mi T, 2x (800,400)I, 4x 200m R 10.16 16.34 01:22:10 08:05 05:02 213
                      07/01 Afternoon Weight Training 0.00 0.00 01:08:18 00:00 00:00 0
                      07/01 Just the heat 5.15 8.29 00:45:30 08:50 05:29 269
                      07/02 Strava tax 9.00 14.48 01:21:37 09:04 05:38 351
                      07/02 Afternoon Run 4.10 6.60 00:37:04 09:02 05:37 240
                      07/03 4 turkeys, 1 deer (4 strides), & a bunny in a pot hole 8.00 12.88 01:08:06 08:31 05:17 285
                      07/04 I love it when race officials don't bother to mark miles or kilometers 3.25 5.24 00:26:09 08:03 04:59 36
                      07/04 Norman Firecracker 5k 3.12 5.02 00:19:01 06:06 03:47 36
                      07/04 As if cooling down were possible 3.25 5.24 00:28:39 08:49 05:28 89
                      07/05 Where was this weather yesterday? 8.00 12.88 01:11:07 08:53 05:31 469
                      07/05 Afternoon Run 5.15 8.29 00:45:24 08:49 05:29 220
                      07/06 23 rabbits, 4.85mi at M effort, & 4 rabbits 18.01 28.97 02:17:12 07:37 04:44 827
                      07/07 2,000 on the dot & 2 ornate box turtles 5.45 8.76 00:49:54 09:09 05:42 482

                      Totals: Time: 12:40:11 - 🦅Imperial: 82.65 mi - Metric: 132.99 km

                      5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                       

                      Upcoming Races:

                       

                      August 10 - Brookhaven 5k

                      October 13 - Prairie Fire Half

                      November 2  - Crossroads Marathon

                       

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        Keen - It's a Fijian greeting.  I googled it to check exactly what it means:

                         

                        Bula is the most common word you’ll hear right across Fiji and it is used to greet people or say hello. When you say bula to someone, you are actually wishing them life.

                         

                        I also discovered there's a movie called Bula with this interesting synopsis:

                         

                        A woman, who owns a laundry shop, uses her clients' clothes to satisfy her sexual fantasies. When she meets a hot police officer, she wants to have him no matter what it takes.

                         

                        Fiji is a place of contrasts.  The resorts are spectacular but outside the resorts there's a lot of extreme poverty.  We got to see a lot of both which was interesting.  Definitely happy to be home in better sleeping weather now, although the air conditioning was pretty good, but loud.

                        5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

                         

                        2024 Races:

                        Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                        Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

                        Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

                        Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

                        Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

                        Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                        Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                           


                          Merkle - Nice week. 2am?? I haven't been up that late in many years, and even longer if you count voluntarily.

                           

                           

                          What about that time you won a 100 mile race. There was a woman, and some competition. There was also your wife.

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 53.37 

                          5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                          flavio80


                             

                            A woman, who owns a laundry shop, uses her clients' clothes to satisfy her sexual fantasies. When she meets a hot police officer, she wants to have him no matter what it takes.

                             

                            Not sure if you would consider this, but something I do often when traveling is I'll put the shirt on with the inside outside, and then wash it while in the shower, I somehow find this easier than washing it in the sink.
                            Then I just let it dry, since I almost never wear cotton (which is something you learn to avoid if you live in a warm country), it's usually fine.

                             

                            Dave - I think 6:15/6:20 might be doable depending on the weather. If you get similar weather to the day of that workout, I think it's very possible.

                             

                            MT - No, an all comers meet would mean people have freedom from the bureaucracy, that's unacceptable in these parts 😁
                            I'd like to think learning to gauge effort trumps heart rate, but that can take time depending on the person.

                             

                            Mark - the books say the 1500 is 67% aerobic, 33% anaerobic, while the 800 is 50/50, though that varies I guess depending on how fast you are.
                            The faster you are the race becomes more anaerobic.

                             

                            Keen - Running with others would greatly help me in my attempt, especially in a race so short like the 800, where 3 seconds either way can make a big difference. It helps that I'm slow and it's unlikely I'd run in a bunch.

                            PRs: 800m 2:31.7 Aug 2019 | 1500m 4:54.1 Sep 2019 | 5K 17:53 Mar 2023

                            JMac11


                            RIP Milkman

                              RP - nice pop by!

                               

                              mmerk - kind of surprised you haven't broken 17 yet given you do well on shorter distances. I don't think you need perfect conditions to run sub 17, but I would say TDP has to be south of 140, which at least by us in NYC, you won't get consistently until September.

                               

                              Speaking of 5Ks, think that will be the first distance I enter just to get an idea of where my fitness is. I was able to run a mile as part of some LT work at 6:15 pace. It almost killed me, but it's good to know that even with a year off, you somehow maintain some level of fitness. Does anyone actually know the physiology behind that? As in, why did it take a few years to get, let's say, sub 6:00 pace in a 5K, but I could probably do that within just a couple of months of training now even with over a year off? Put another way - do you ever actually get back to ground zero with training? There has to be some point where you take SO much time off that it's like you've never run in your life, right? I would have thought that a year away would do it, but you also read crazy stories of women who take a year (or multiple years) off due to kids and come back and run insane times.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                               

                              CommanderKeen


                              Cobra Commander Keen

                                 

                                 

                                Fiji is a place of contrasts.  The resorts are spectacular but outside the resorts there's a lot of extreme poverty.  We got to see a lot of both which was interesting.  

                                 

                                This aligns with my (admittedly limited) experience with Mexico.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                What about that time you won a 100 mile race. There was a woman, and some competition. There was also your wife.

                                 

                                Like I said, not willingly. I wanted to be finished with that race nearly 3 hours before I did. I still might have been asleep by 2, though.

                                 

                                 

                                JMac - It has been good seeing more runs from you on Strava.

                                 

                                I doubt this is all of it, but a good chunk of why it takes so long to get to a certain level of fitness is that it just takes time to develop the mitochondria necessary to generate the amount of energy needed for such a pace, the extra vascularization needed to help deliver oxygen and nutrients to the muscles, develop the heart strength/pump volume required, and what changes are needed in the muscles/tendons themselves (strength/endurance, etc.).
                                Some of these may regress with lots of time off, but they never revert to pre-trained states. And the body "has a memory" - when you start training again your body knows what's required and can more quickly adapt than it did before.

                                 

                                Yesterday was a good day. Before going out for a double I managed to talk DD1 into going with me for a mile or so (she's supposed to do this on her own ahead of soccer season starting, but hasn't), and DD2 wanted to go along (she's going to run the 5k when Irun my next marathon), and even DD3 wanted in on the action as well.

                                5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22

                                 

                                Upcoming Races:

                                 

                                August 10 - Brookhaven 5k

                                October 13 - Prairie Fire Half

                                November 2  - Crossroads Marathon