Forums >Racing>3:20 Marathoners ... New and Improved for (the rest of) 2017
Duke Of Bad Judgment
Well done CDave!
Resident Millennial
cdave woo!! you have entered "and beyond" territory! i wanna hear more. big congrats!
pj- i am scrolling through results now ... nice job!!!! out of perspective, a teammate of mine who i run workouts close to but always beats me in XC races was ~220/260 in the womens race ..... not sure i will ever run Nats because i might get DFL haha.our 40+ team was 2nd which is pretty awesome. don't know any other results yet but our 60+ team often wins usatf national things (for road races especially) so maybe they did today. open team ..... does not stand against the pro runners, haha.
how'd your team do?looks like SB had a bad day.
also, all ages of women race 6k, 60+ men race 8k, open-49y/o men race 10k. i do not understand this.
(more later)
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Whooho Cdave Nice work on sub-3:15!
rlk - Yes, XC distances are weird. Apparently it's a tradition or something. (So was male-only suffrage, but that's gone). Wow on your buddy coming near the back at nationals. Tough field!
Um, well done PJ?
Max - 78 hours (or perhaps a bit less)? Sounds a bit hazardous too. Er, good luck! Also good luck to that gal attempting the AGWR!
I ran 5 miles today, and things held up, but it was probably good I did not go further. Pace was around 9:30. I've lost a lot of fitness and speed. Assuming I can keep adding distance, I'll need to be careful not to do it too quickly for fear of damaging something else. It's like starting out again.
Pace Prophet
Congratulations, Dave! I wish I'd been there. NO, REALLY.
1:02:05. Think I raced well, just not in the greatest shape and Father Time is starting to flex his muscles. 1st AG; 5th Masters - including 1 F and 1 "Geezer" (2 yr older). Helps that all the talent was in Lexington.
Great job CDave!
PJ ~ Sounds like there were some other adventures on this trip besides the race.
Good news JimE.
Mother of Cats
CDave - major congrats! Outstanding!
also, all ages of women race 6k, 60+ men race 8k, open-49y/o men race 10k. i do not understand this. (more later)
If that bugs you, check out the prize money differential for masters.... http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/2017/USATF-National-Club-Cross-Country/Athlete-Info/Awards---Prize-Money.aspx
That irks me more than the distance. To me it's always made sense for women to race slightly shorter than men when the genders are split, so that the races take the same amount of time - i.e women's 8K versus men's 10k.
Dad - nice job in icy conditions. I ended up running on part of the course (Haines Point) this morning, mostly because there weren't many good options for running today. I made a point of staying well off to the side, but you must have run past me at some point. I was looking for you but never saw you.
Jim - glad you're coming back. I sympathize with the difficulty of it.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
And....dumping off my week. 61 miles, 17 "miles" pool-running, and other stuff.M: yoga and 7.5 "miles" pool-running.T: 12 miles, including 2x(1600, 800) plus a bonus 800 in 6:07, 2:55, 6:00, 2:52, 2:53. Also injury prevention/leg strength work and recovery swimming.W: 8 miles easy to yoga (9:12), yoga, and then 3 miles easy (8:45) plus drills and strides.Th: Upper body weights and core plus 9.5 "miles" pool-running.F: 13 miles, including an 8K tempo in 32:28, split as 6:44/6:31/6:29/6:25/6:19. Also injury prevention/leg strength work and recovery swimming.
Sa: 10.5 miles very easy (8:58) plus drills and strides. Later did upper body weights and core.Su: 14.5 miles progressive, split as first 4 miles at 9:12, next 5 at 7:46, last 5.5 at 6:54. Also injury prevention/leg strength work and recovery swimming.
Will Run for Donuts!
Congratulations to CDave and Dad!
Ran 13 in the snow yesterday. Very beautiful/tranquil, once I warmed up. Luckily, it was melting as soon as it hit the pavement, so I never felt my footing was compromised. It was just one of those days that it was nice to be outside.
CDave - major congrats! Outstanding! If that bugs you, check out the prize money differential for masters.... http://www.usatf.org/Events---Calendar/2017/USATF-National-Club-Cross-Country/Athlete-Info/Awards---Prize-Money.aspx That irks me more than the distance. To me it's always made sense for women to race slightly shorter than men when the genders are split, so that the races take the same amount of time - i.e women's 8K versus men's 10k.
duration of races being somewhat equal would make sense to me, too. the first open women finished around 19min and the first open men in 29min, so that's certainly not the thought process here.maybe this is our respective perspectives (say that 5x fast)... but with smaller fields, less prize money for advancing age groups makes sense to me. it also seems rolled up into the fact that high-level runners (since that's what this race primarily is composed of) out of the open age group don't typically/don't expect to make money in running as a career. is that "age-ist", or is that just a reality of athletics?
that is a colossal difference in prize money, but then again, it is *team* winnings and if a team is strong despite having some masters, they can run their masters in the open division (just not the other way around obvi).
duration of races being somewhat equal would make sense to me, too. the first open women finished around 19min and the first open men in 29min, so that's certainly not the thought process here.
Agreed. It works if you have 8K for women and 10K for men; not 10K and 6K.
maybe this is our respective perspectives (say that 5x fast)... but with smaller fields, less prize money for advancing age groups makes sense to me. it also seems rolled up into the fact that high-level runners (since that's what this race primarily is composed of) out of the open age group don't typically/don't expect to make money in running as a career. is that "age-ist", or is that just a reality of athletics? that is a colossal difference in prize money, but then again, it is *team* winnings and if a team is strong despite having some masters, they can run their masters in the open division (just not the other way around obvi).
I don't object to differing prize # based on age groups. But differing prize $ based on gender did bug me. Masters men (40+ and 50+) paid $800/500/300; masters women in the same age categories paid $480/300/180. (though, to your point, there were less masters women than masters men.)
Haven't had much time to catch up, just dropping by with my week and a HUGE congrats to Dave!!! Way to go!
My Week:
M: sleep
T: 8.5 miles - 2 up, 30:00 tempo, 2 down. First mile of tempo was sluggish and uphill 6:58, then 6:42, 6:40, 6:38, and about another 1/2 mile at 6:40ish pace. Felt good, but took a while to wake up. I had to start this run at 0430 due to work.
W: 5 easy (8:11)
T: 7.5 miles (8:07) - 2.25 up, 12x200 hills, 2.25 down. Legs felt a little rough today. Lungs were good. Just a combination of workouts and less sleep with the newborn I think.
F: 5 easy (7:51) - Lunch run at the dam near work. Saw two bald eagles and ran in the snow!
S: 14 miles - 12E (7:38-7:59, most at 7:45), 2 mile pickup (6:36, 6:27). Legs felt fresh for the entire run, including the tempo. Last 2 miles were uphill. Windy day. This was my first long run that I ran in my compression socks. I usually wear them after long runs for recovery. I mainly put them on for warmth, ended up liking running in them. Not a surprise, since that's their purpose.
S: 5 easy (7:56)
ITB is weird these days, I'll go a couple runs without a thing, it'll hurt mid-day, or sometimes a funky twinge on a run. No predictability. Still icing and foam rolling. Feels like the definition of "nagging".
Total: 45 miles, some glute work, and a slacker's version of injury prevention.
Brew: how's the kiddo? Wife recovering okay?
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
congrats to CDave and Dad! I probably missed someone, so congrats to you as well!
ilana: My reading has been a bit spotty...what's the latest on your situation?
Brew: If i remember correctly, since the last time I posted, something significant may have happened for you. Congrats!
McBen: My paces are pretty slow, so staying on the treadmill is a bit more manageable.
Dad: The camber question is interesting...our camber is relatively insignificant (compared to Napa Valley, at least), so I don't know if that is it. I think arthritis and its relationship to hip extension are more likely culprits. Or maybe a repetitive stress issue, or a muscle weakness that is being taken care of by increased hill work. Who knows.
max: Rumor has it you are going back to BC. Is this true? Because if both of us go, it's probably going to rain or snow, or some other catastrophic weather event is going to happen...
Hey to everyone! I hope those of you in CA are not having to deal with the fires. Photos I've seen are rather surreal.
My week...
M: 7.1
T: 13 w/ 5 x (1M @ 3%, -3%), then 3 x (0.25M @ 9%, 0.75M @ -3%)
W: RestT: 14 (14 x 0.25M @ 9%, 0.75M @ -3%)
F: 4
S: 12.7
S: 20 w/6 x (0.5M @ 0%, 0.5M @ 6%, 1M @ -3%), then 8 x (0.25M @ 9%, 0.75M @ -3%)
Total: 70.8 @ 8:56OA, with 4355' of elevation in both directions. I have thoroughly embraced slow paces for the time being, and my legs are exhausted from the hills.
pie man
Team was a respectable 39 out of 49 scored teams. More importantly, we inadventartly introduced hanson's and maybe BAA elite women to the concept of 'icing' because we are 12 years old and it's still 2009 (we were icing each other to be clear).
We piled into the rented van very early Friday morning for the drive down. Apparently it wasn't early enough because we had to call ahead to have a former teammate check us in for the race when we were still an hour out at 4:30 (This resulted in us not having an assigned box initially at the race and being on the extreme end of the line). Pretty much standard operating procedure for our band of misfits. We arrived and got out numbers and checked into our hotel. We heard about the snow back home, but it mostly missed Kentucky. The cold did not, however. Shake out (probably too quick for me, but whatever) then out for dinner and just a little beer and back at a reasonable hour. Our race was the last at 12:30 so we could sleep in and have a leisurely morning. Short ride to the park where one of the masters heats was in progress. It was cold, but I definitely didn't mind and as soon as we started the warm up jog I was a bit sweaty in my layers. I didn't quite get the optimim warm up but I don't think that mattered much. We caught a bit of the women's race and stripped down to our race layers and headed to the start when they finished. I didn't have any spikes and I regret that quite a lot. The ground was hard so that wasn't the main issue, but it was rather lumpy in places.
The idea at the start was to let most everyone go and try to run an even pace. Letting everyone go was not difficult. But after just a mile in low 6 pace I was already feeling my legs and that deep soreness. So I was sliding back to closer to 7 pace and most everybody was just easing away. I may have passed a couple of people (one passed me back later), but the rest of the way I was pretty much solo. Which was not great. The course was a long 4K loop followed by two 3k loops that were different from the first loops but identical to each other. The snow flakes started from the first loop which gave it a true XC feel. There was a slight breeze and the hill to the finish got harder each loop. The first half of the second loop I was heading back from the first part and I could see the leaders entering their third loop and I knew right then I was getting passed before I got to my third loop. If they had gotten to me earlier I might have stepped off to not be in anyone's way. But I was in sight of the finish and I decided to keep going. I could be wrong, but I think Emmanuel bor passed me first with two closing on him (one of whom passed him since he was second). My friends that didn't race were cheering and taking pictures so there is one with me and the elites in the background. They joked it looked like I was winning. Time of 42:32 was off what I felt like I could have done on a better day, but the field is so crazy sub 40 would have meant 10 or 15 from the bottom instead of 5. I swear there were more than 10 behind me early on, but maybe most of them dropped? Regardless, it was nice to feel for a brief minute like I was a little bit fast like when I was young. Any future attempts will definitely be in the masters heat where I will still be quite far back, but at least there will be a little more company.
The after activities started almost immediately after the race (I, myself, got 'iced' back at the awards area where we set up to be in some shelter before and after. And then moved on to bourbon because it was Kentucky and that's what one does. I lived up to my status as significantly older than almost everyone else on the team and flamed out first for sleep probably before midnight. Our #1 got to chat quite a while with Noah and relive some division III glory. The rest of the crew made up for the lack of pace in the race with pace to spare at the after party. And it was a sleepy ride back home today.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
A 3:20 Slowpoke
Race Report for Tucson Marathon December 9th 2017: My 15th marathon (all after age 47)
Reason for choosing this race - It went very well last year with a 5+ minute PR.
What's the course like - It's not really in Tucson.......It starts in the town of Oracle at about 4,800 ft elevation and drops nearly 2,200 ft down to an area north of Tucson called Oro Valley. It does have a few hundred feet of gain that is mostly on the out and back section that goes to Biosphere 2. It's not the most scenic of courses and it's not at sea level, but I would classify it as a pretty fast course in the right conditions because of the pretty consistent and not too steep drop.
How did you train - This is where it gets tricky. I did sign up for 4 months of training with Nick Arciniaga and he created a pretty nice looking plan for me that maxed at about 75 miles per week. Did I even remotely follow the plan? Not really. Job and shift changes at work as well as my love for just running a bunch a trail miles prevented me from utilizing the plan. I did pull a few workouts from it but mostly did my own thing. It looks like I averaged about 65 MPW for 14 weeks up until the taper. I was pretty consistent with the track workouts on Tuesday night and I did a handful of 18 to 21 mile runs but I think the high volume of 8 to 14 mile trail runs with hills at 7,000 ft probably did me the most good........but what do I know? Being old (57 years old) I did a pretty steep taper 57 miles, 42 miles, and then just 15 miles the week of the race (Saturday race). I actually did a similar taper to the previous year since it seemed to work pretty well.
Pre Race - I drove down to Tucson following work early Thursday afternoon. On the way down I stopped in the Phoenix area to run an easy 5 miles. I then stopped at the Adidas outlet and bought two pairs of shorts and two pairs of socks for $29.00! Durning my run I also decided I needed a new pair of Altra Escante's for the race. I called around Tucson and found a pair in my size at The Running Shop (cool store) and made it there just before they closed. I then checked into my free AirBnb (courtesy of the debacle at Boston in April). It was a nice little casita about 15 minutes from the shuttle location. Friday was a day of eating, going to the expo, eating, napping, and more eating. Oh, and a 3 mile run was in there somewhere. I did an out and back from mile 26 to mile 24.5 of the marathon course. I wanted to reacquaint myself with the little hill during the 25th mile. This was also where I put the 3 miles on my new shoes and decided they were good to go. If you think that's just crazy, I did the same thing in April and I had never run in Escalante's before.
Race Morning - I had a breakfast of 1 1/2 bagels and some water right after I woke up at 3:30am.. I had to catch the shuttle at 4:45am so that also gave me time to get a nice hot shower. It helps to wake this old body up! I got on the bus at around 5:00am and we arrived at the start in the dark of night at 5:30am. A full 90 minutes before the start of the race! A bit more time than I would've liked but we were able to hang out/talk/zone out in the bus until about 20 minutes before the start. No phone to kill the time since I didn't want to leave it with the bag check. After getting out of the bus at about 6:40, one last quick porta potty stop, and 5 minutes of easy jogging and stretching, the race is on.
The goal - Who the f**k knows. The only two races I had done since last years Tucson was that east coast April marathon and the torturous Imogene Pass Trail race in September. Not much to gauge fitness on. My thought process was this: Last year's Tucson was a pretty big PR for me (5+ minutes), I almost PR'd again in April, so I guesstimated I might have been in 3:18 shape for that one. I have 3,000 miles under my belt since last December (my biggest mileage year ever) so the plan was to try and go through the 1/2 in 1:38/1:39 and reevaluate at that time.
The Race -
Miles 1-5. 7:08, 7:33, 7:11, 7:26, 7:09. I wasn't too overly concerned with the quick start since the first mile is quite steep downhill and the temps (low 40's) were perfect. We also had a bit of a tailwind!
Miles 6-10. 7:09, 7:05, 7:14, 7:16, 7:23. Okay this is too fast........but you know what, I had kind of accepted the fact the blowing up was worth the risk. I've had a number of decent marathons over the past few years so why not take a bit of a chance.
Miles 11-13 7:53, 7:50, 7:34. These slower miles were expected. This is the out and back section to Biosphere 2 and has some rolling hills. I didn't look at my splits during this section because I didn't want to see a mile over 8 minutes and get depressed. I was curious to see what the 13.1 split was............1:37:09. About 90 seconds faster than planned so not too ridiculous. Even so, I was starting to feel a bit of hip flexor tightness which I hadn't felt during my last two marathons. So at this point I decided to stop looking at my splits and just run by effort. The next 10 miles or so is just a long stretch of slightly downhill boring highway.
Miles 14-20. 7:12, 7:25, 7:26, 7:28, 7:19, 7:21, 7:46. I honestly felt like I was running all those miles at about 7:45. It was a grind. I was walking through all the water stops with one cup of gatorade and one water. The miles during this section seemed to crawl by compared to last year.
Miles 21-26 & .2. 7:19,7:27, 7:22, 7:16, 7:37 (the hill), 7:18, & 6:42 pace for the last .2 I actually started feeling a bit better after mile 21 but I still didn't think I was running those paces. At the last timing mat a woman told me "nice job, you're holding strong in 4th" I'm thinking........;4th in my age group??? I thought I was running a bit faster than last year when I finished 2nd AG. Sadly I didn't really see anyone too close up ahead of me so it wasn't likely I was going to pass anyone to move up. I did pass a father and a son (father was encouraging his son to start running again) He said something about 3:15 to his son but I didn't give that anymore thought. After hitting the 25 mile marker I did think about looking at the Garmin but I didn't feel like doing the 1.2 mile math so I just kept trying to run a consistent pace. I finally looked at Mr Garmin after the final turn when I hit mile 26 and I saw 3:13:00. I couldn't believe I was going to go sub 3:15.
Final result was 3:14:21( a 7+ minute PR) with splits of 1:37:09/1:37:12.......damn, a positive split. . 2nd AG but not even close to 1st. Somebody 55-59 ran 2:58. Damn!!!!
What's next - Botswana again in April. I think this updated time will get me into the same corral as Max!
PR's 5k - 20:39 (2014). 10k - 42:04 (2014) 13.1 - 1:30:30 (2014) 26.2 - 3:14:21 2017)
Upcoming Races - Boston Marathon 4/18
dwave- oh, good grief. i took note of the different $ for advancing ages but did not notice the significant differences between genders. WOOF. that is a load of garbage. i would love to hear the "justification" by which that was at some point approved.
dad- fast!!
jim- yay miles,!pj- great recap, thanks! other than the part about arriving late (that would stress me out), sounds like a super fun and fulfilling trip, and great for a track/XC nerd did you run in open as opposed to masters so your team would have enough to score?
cdave- wow wow! those are awesome splits and a really well run race. your account of miles 14-20 being tough/a drudge but feeling better at mile 21 is good to hear - things really can change all the time in a race so long. makes it worth holding on and gutting through tough middle miles! big congrats on the 3:14!!!
i caught this year's post-marathon cold on wednesday, stayed home from work thursday and friday, and here we are on sunday night and i am mostly ok but my throat is still really sore. meh. i went for a 30min jog yesterday, my first one since CIM, and it was ok. i was feeling being sick too. kinda nice to have off-season now!