Forums >Racing>2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber
I'm just gonna drop off this article here.
Thanks, Darkwave, that definitely lines up a lot with what I've observed from a lot of athletes I know locally as well.
I also recall a post from you as well some time ago where you mentioned how your easy pace, based on feel, could vary over a wide range - as much as a minute per mile. Definitely something I've borne in mind as I try to run my easy runs on feel as well.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
3 months til Masters
Nice week Darkwave. I used to be able to swim and be a lifeguard, but now if i do more than 100 yds, i'm in a ball crying while applying bio-freeze to my whole body. Impressed with the 12 mile progression and then swimming on top of that. My muscles only work well going in what direction and method these days.
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Mother of Cats
Shoutouts:
Markymark - good luck at the 10K. 50 minutes at MP is a solid workout.
Swim - do you use power for easy runs also? Or just pace or feel?
Wolvmar - fingers crossed.
DPS - your late night runs make me tired just thinking about them.
JT Reeves - so good to have you back! I was really happy to see the 16 this am.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Same.
Marky - I lived in metric country for 40 years but now I have a headache when I see kilometers because I have to convert them in miles. I know, "miles" people are in the wrong but that's where I am now Your story will be probably the most interesting one - because your shorter races are in such deep disconnect with your marathon PR
dps - yeah, the paces are so fast, hard to comprehend and relate. Seeing those paces and pretty big mileage tells me sub 2:36?
JTR - great to hear you are out of the woods!
DW - always a challenge and a great skill to tell yourself to stop a workout when you feel something is not right. Obviously should be paying off in the long run
Swim - you are a machine
wolvmar - hope you are doing something to fight those constant injuries (slower paces, days off, strengthening)
Mikkey - if you feel very confident, please wear your mankini - anything that slows you down I approve
My week finally had some workouts, but yesterdays LR was so tough I have to take day off today (had hard time sleeping after that run and my quads are dead):
Mon - 10.2 @9:54
Tue - 12.6 with 6x1mile (6:20-6:30 paces range)
Wed - 10.2 @9:46
Thu - 12.1 with 6 miles @MP effort (6:30-6:40 paces range)
Fri - 11.2 @9:13
Sat - 20 @11:10 - 4200ft ascent
Sun - off
Total: 76.6 miles
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
My Dad's marathon PR is 2:37:02 which is my goal for Boston or Chicago in 2021. It is the only PR of his I have a shot at. He was a 13:57 5K / 4:01 mile (though he loves to point out out his 1500 pr is 3:58 mile equivalent) guy at Wisconsin and ran Grandma's after his senior year. Back then you couldn't go pro because there was no pros really, so he stopped running for 10 years until he started again. By my age, he had 3 kids and a law practice, so he has not ran more than 60 miles a week since college. It is the only one I have any chance at. Although he is 66, he is thinking of running the Twin Cities marathon this year and trying to go sub 3:30. He is truly a freak.
Yup - definitely my experience. And my easy run paces are affected not just by how much fatigue I have, but the environment. If it's really hot or cold, I run slower. If the run is after yoga class and my hips are very open, I run faster.
A fair amount of my winter runs are done well before the sun rises on poorly lit uneven sidewalks, so those are slower. [yes, I know it's not optimal, but I don't have time to wait until the sun rises. And as a woman running by herself, it's safer to run on those sidewalks than to hit the local multi use trail before dawn.
And then I also sometimes run commute - I'll do an easy run from my home downhill into the city, and then take care of errands (grocery shopping, etc) before taking the subway home - those runs are sometimes faster
The Running Dead
Decloaking.
My week 45.9 miles. Mostly EZ pace with 8 x100m strides after my Wed run. Still working on getting comfortable in the 40mpw range before starting training for a HM in April. Based on where most of you run your EZ pace, it looks like I'm a little fast. That said, it seems to be in range based on the McMillan calculator, and as I build to higher mileage, I wouldn't be surprised to slow down a bit.
8:40
You guys post as fast as you run, and your posts are as prolific as your weekly mileage. I'm sure I won't be able to keep up. That said:
Dwave - Hope the HS feels better soon. Are you doing any special stretches or strength exercises? Nice job getting in the miles.
Nimmals - Thanks for the tip on the format. And for the hill sprint explanation, I read Fitzgerald's book, but didn't get it as clearly as what you posted. Makes more sense now.
MarkyMark - I only convert to km when I want the distance to sound farther . Nice job on the week.
Wolvmar - Nice job getting your 37. Us Michiganders need to stick together.
DPS - 87 miles and taking care of your growing family. Nice job. Hope everything works out well for you and your wife.
CalBears - Impressive week with lots of variety (intervals, MP and big climbs). Nice job.
All I missed - I'll do my best to catch you next week.
Happy running everyone!
JT - Great that your getting back to your regular mileage, pain free! The fitness will come back in time.
Mark - What kind of mileage (KM's) do you expect to see as you build? I run all of my easy runs by feel. Hardly ever look at my watch during those runs. It's kind of nice to just totally zone out, and luckily I think the pace is always slow/easy enough not to get called out. But not only do I have some variation from day to day depending on the conditions, there's a lot of variation in an individual run. My first mile is always way slower. Many of them are at around 9, with the first half mile being 10 or so.
Darkwave - I'm glad it looks like Houston is on! 16 was on your schedule for this weekend? Seems like 12 is more than enough the weekend before a half, so doesn't seem like you'll have lost much, if any.
DP - 2:37 would be cool. Hopefully you'll get there. I generally have the opposite problem when running in a group. They tend to make me want to run quicker, even if I'm the one pushing the pace, as opposed to them. When I'm solo, I can run 8s or slower all day long. Get me talking and running with others, it creeps down to 7s quickly.
Cal - Is this your ramp up for the next ultra race? Or are you already looking at another marathon?
My week:
53 total
Mon: 8.2 @ 8:09
Tue: 6 @ 8:16
Wed: 9.7 with 1T, 2T, 1T, 2T (6:04, :25, :22, :06, :27, :23)
Thu: 5.7 @ 8:14
Fri: 6 @ 8:04
Sat: 12.1 @ 7:15 with 3 x 1mile, full mile between (6:10 down to 5:58)
Sun: 5.1 @ 8:25
I went with JMAc's suggestion for the workout this week (again). It was a weird one, but glad I did it. It was quite tricky getting the pacing right coming off the T miles, but the second M mile in each set felt great. The T felt harder than I would have liked for it to have felt. Saturday I was going to just run the last three down under GMP, but a friend was running the 3x1 and she convinced me to go with her on it. Those three felt way easier than the Wed, but could have just been the company. Things are starting to look good, I guess. I'll do 3 x half mile at some point this week, but everything else will be chill. I'm ready for it to come now!
Upcoming races: Boston
Andres - Only my coach knows that at the moment. Last year I peaked for goal HM's at around 65 miles / 105km (6 days/week with long runs mid-week and Sunday). I suspect I'll get up to around 80 miles / 130km a week. Those workouts are sounding promising - have fun in race week and try to avoid the legendary JMac taper madness!
Calbears/BCarv - yeah I just tend to prefer measuring systems where you don't have to count 15 rods to the hogshead except on Tuesday or in a leap year.
BCarv - yeah I'm struggling to keep up with the thread a bit too. Lucky work is quiet! Good to have so many on here though.
Calbears - Nice week! JMac was complaining on the other thread that his quads feel broken after running like 10 miles this week, I think your long run with that elevation gain might put it in perspective a bit haha.
UM 45 Ohio 23
thanks to all for the thoughts. I'm definitely running slower, not always by choice! I used to take 1-2 rest days a week but I may try running more days this time but with more slow and/or low mile days. I tend to find my legs feel better when I do some running each day. I htink I just need to not to overdue the easy days and not add too many miles to soon. That's always been a struggle as, when I start to feel good, I just want to run more/faster (relatively speaking!). It's an inspiration seeing what all of you are doing!
DPS: Wow, your dad was one hell of a runner! Those times are very impressive. Great goal to go after his 2:37 PR. BTW, I completely understand that for some, running slower just starts to feel awkward, and can actually be counterproductive if form is compromised, etc. Me bringing up that you are on the fast side for easy pace was just to reminisce about the huge debate that happened years ago on that topic which was quite entertaining (at least for me as I followed it). I totally agree with the Macmillan article DW posted.
DW: Good to hear the hamstring is feeling better; with another week to recover/taper I think you should be good for Houston.
Cal: Very impressive week, not only the 2 hard sessions but the LR; that was epic! I can see how you need a day off to let the legs recover from that; smart move.
Andres: You're finishing off this training cycle perfectly. I'm excited to see how you do at Houston; I think sub 2:50 is definitely in the cards. Relax now and enjoy the taper!
2:52:16 (2018)
Dwave: glad to hear Houston is a go! Stay well.
Cal: nice LR!
Not much to post hear other than recovery on the calf is progressing. Up to 4 miles with no pain. 14 miles this week. Planning to start building back up this week. Need to take this strength training I’ve been doing while injured into the training cycle. Curious to see how much I’ll have to adjust my Boston goal after missing a little time right when I was getting some speed back.
Road Mile: 5:19 (2017), 5k: 17:09 (2021), 10k: 35:54 (2021), HM: 1:21:55 (2020), M: 2:53:18 (2021)
Wow, tons of activity here...no way to respond to it all, but I'll throw out a couple of things...
Nimmals: Thanks for the graphic a page or two back. I'm a big fan of the Hudson book, and in addition to the section you mentioned, appreciate the chapter on self-evaluation after a training cycle, to know what to work on moving forward. I'm still working my way back into shape, so it isn't too relevant to me right now. Everything needs work, and a lot of it!
Interesting discussion on easy run pace. I used to fall in the middle to faster side of McMillan's easy pace range, but right now, I'm hanging off the back end of slow. Just happy to be niggle free.
My week...biggest week in about 11 months, and I came out of it feeling good.
M: 3.2M @ 9:31
T: 6.25M @ 10:00
W: Rest
T: 9.75M w/15 x 1min Easy, 1min @ HM effort
F: 8.4M @ 8:50
S: 20M @ 10:51 w/2900' elevation
S: 12.4M @ 9:34 w/1100' elevation
Total: 60M, elevation gain/loss: 5198'/1344'.
Mmmm Bop
I do recall an epic debate about your easy pace several years ago involving Mikkey and JMac (maybe others?), but I'd say you've proven you are running the pace that works for you. DPS may be the same type of runner, whose easy pace is not the "usual" 1.5-2 minutes slower than MP.
Yep, simply because Marky never gets injured, always nails his workouts/races and continues to improve each year. Can’t really argue with that!
Ive always been on the slower side of easy, in fact I don’t think I ran a single mile in the 7:00 - 7:40 deadzone last year.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)