2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 700 times)

Mikkey


Mmmm Bop

    Mark I just picked up the kids some Maccas. About 30 cars in queue but moved quickly.

     

    Enjoyable Zoom meeting yesterday nice to meet Cal and Darkwave and my mates from sub 1.30. Cal slightly better looking than Mikkey but looked very tired falling asleep while we talked 

     

    He probably lost interest when JMac failed to show up Smile

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


    Resident Historian

      Hit 30 miles last week, right on plan. A long run of 7.1 miles, 1/10th for each year of a recent birthday. Good progress! Also worked my daily Achilles recovery exercise plan: lots of balance exercises, ankle range of motion and strengthening, and some more exercises for knee extension and hips. The PT who set in up knows his stuff; it's working. Occasinally I get twinges from the A.T. and right knee, but they don't stay around long. Enjoyed sitting in on the Zoom call yesterday, although I rarely post in that sub-1:30 thread. But, when I get to run a half (however long that takes!), it better be sub-1:30 age-graded (hopefully sub-1:20 age graded). Here in SoCal, the first baby steps to opening up went into effect today. Beaches are now open (but not their parking lots, to keep the numbers down), and sitting to sunbathe is not allowed. The county worked with the Lifeguards to set up a manageable set of rules. Swimming and human-powered watercraft are allowed (surfing, paddleboards, kayaks). No recreational boating. Masks become mandatory for going out if you expect to be within 6' of anyone else.

      Neil

      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

      CalBears


         He probably lost interest when JMac failed to show up Smile

         

        Nah... I met JMac last December at CIM finish - he is alright, seeing him in Zoom would bring no novelty. Believe it or not, I actually wanted to meet / see Piwi and you, but I learned one more time that New Zealand people such a great folks and Brits are just as expected - ignorant bas****s 

        paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

        Marky_Mark_17


          Mark I just picked up the kids some Maccas. About 30 cars in queue but moved quickly.


          There were 15 cars in the queue at the Macca’s I drove past on the way to the track this morning at 6am. I mean, I like McDonalds but not enough to sit in a queue at 6am waiting for it.

          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

          * Net downhill course

          Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

          Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            Happy Birthday. Due to COVID-19 concerns I'll send you a meme instead of a card.

             


            - Today is my birthday, entering a new age group at 55. One more disappointment of lack of racing; I was looking forward to some improved placements.

             

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 53.37 

            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

            Marky_Mark_17


              My week was OK.  A bit lighter volume-wise, the 5K TT on Thursday was a bit of a bust, otherwise just churning out the miles.  In hindsight doing workouts on the 2 days before the TT, plus still recovering from the 36km long run last weekend, probably didn't set me up that well for the TT.  A bunch of races from April have now been officially rescheduled for September.  Unfortunately this means that NZ Half Marathon Champs (rescheduled Waterfront HM) are now the weekend before NZ Marathon Champs (rescheduled Rotorua Marathon).  I'm still leaning towards doing the Rotorua Marathon as a marathon was always the goal this year.

               

              Weekly for period: From: 04/27/2020 To 05/03/2020

              Date Name Distance
              in mi
              Duration Avg Pace
              per mi
              Elevation Gain
              in ft
              04/27/2020 Day 33: Someone wise once said “the most important day is the one you don’t run” 0.00 00:45:00 00:00 0
              04/28/2020 Day 33+1: The audible background hum of traffic has returned 7.62 00:47:00 06:10 23
              04/29/2020 Day 33+2: Short boost on Upper Harbour 5.07 00:35:19 06:58 259
              04/30/2020 Day 33+3.1: Warm up 1.88 00:13:43 07:18 43
              04/30/2020 Day 33+3.2: Athletics NZ Virtual 5k 3.11 00:16:28 05:18 82
              04/30/2020 Day 33+3.3: Warm down 3.30 00:24:26 07:24 112
              05/01/2020 Day 33+4: The long slog up Wairau Road 8.71 01:04:59 07:28 702
              05/02/2020 Day 33+5: Can’t believe that’s the first time up the bridge in over a week 8.89 01:00:36 06:49 495
              05/03/2020 Day 33+6: Escape from Lockdown Half Marathon (plus a bit) with the Escape from Prison haircut 15.55 01:55:28 07:26 988

              Total distance: 54.12mi

              3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

              10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

              * Net downhill course

              Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

              Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

              Magrawlas


                Hi, new to this...

                I am currently training for the Wellington marathon on 5th July. If it goes ahead (unlikely due to virus) it will be my first.

                After some advice please.

                •  If race is delayed should I go into a holding pattern on the training plan and repeat a week over and over say three or four weeks from  race day? I'm on week 12 of a 20wk plan.
                •  I'm aiming at sub 4hr. Is a pace of 5:30 per Km = 3hr 52min cutting it to fine considering water stops etc?
                •  How often to hydrate and is sports drink and gels enough to get through. When to take gels?

                About me

                •  49yrs old and have been running for 7yrs
                •  best half marathon time is 1hr 55. Did it in my first year of running and haven't done an official one since.
                •  best 10km time 44:52 min about 18 mths ago.

                Thanks

                CalBears


                  Marky - you will have plenty of opportunities for time trials, just do it right next time . Re choosing an event - I would chose what I think I am most prepared for, though it's hard to estimate I guess until you try. But yeah, you only ran one marathon - it's a shame .

                   

                  Magrawlas - welcome! Yes, I would just continue regular training, with an average mileage and one-two workouts per week. Last 4-5 weeks before marathon I would just repeat weeks from your plan. That would be the safest - just don't forget to taper. Cannot tell you anything on your marathon pace as looks like you are not sure yourself - but, your workouts and the latest races are the ones that should give you some idea. If your races are very old, do a Time Trial - 10K trial would give you a rough idea. Re hydration and gels - usual recommendation - every 30-45 minutes you take a gel (I usually do it every 5 miles) and you take water/sports drink at every aid station (which is usually every 2-3 miles). I do not stop to drink - just grab a cup and drink it while I run.

                   

                  My week was not bad. Tried some run at an elevated HR (150bpm) on Tuesday - hard to make anything out of it, but it was nice to run at something faster than 9 mpm. Finally felt a glimpse of a runner I have been in 2014-2016 - PM's run on Friday and both runs on Saturday were at a recovery HR and it was absolutely effortless and at a decent pace - oh, long forgotten runner's high :

                   

                  Mon - off

                  Tue  - am - 13.13 @7:39 (10 @7:24 @150pm)                 pm - 8.08 @8:50

                  Wed - am - 13.13 @8:57                                                    pm - 8.08 @9:05

                  Thu  - am - 13.13 @8:59

                  Fri    - am - 13.13 @8:03 (10 @harder effort, HR stuck)    pm - 8.07 @8:31

                  Sat   - am - 13.13 @8:31                                                    pm - 8.08 @8:21

                  Sun  - am - 13.13 @8:57

                  ===

                  Total: 111.1 miles

                  paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    Marky Mark -  you could always make the call (half-marathon versus marathon) when you got up close and had some idea what the weather might be.  For you, with your speed surplus, I keep thinking half and full marathon training wouldn't look that much different.

                     

                    Magrawlas another kiwi???? (joke)  I think what to do if your race is delayed hinges on how long it is delayed.  If I completed a marathon cycle, and then had the race postponed a few months, with no other option in the next week or two, I would shut things down, take an easy week to mark the end of a completed cycle, and then start a new cycle.  One cannot extend a training cycle indefinitely.

                     

                    Calbears - the fact that you ran 8.07 miles on Friday evening is driving me insane - it wrecks an otherwise perfectly symmetrical week - like a tile pattern.....

                     

                    ****

                     

                    My week:

                    65 miles, 10 miles of walking
                    M: Upperbody weights, core, and 5 mile walk
                    T: 14 miles, including 2 short hill repeats and 8 minutes at tempo effort on the treadmill before it shut down. Then moved outside for 4 more hill repeats. Followed with leg strengthwork.
                    W: 8 miles easy on treadmill (9:04), live streaming yoga, and 4.5 miles easy on treadmill (8:54).
                    Th: Upper body weights/core and 5 mile walk.
                    F: 12.5 miles on the treadmill, including a "hill workout" of 8 sets of:
                    2:00 strong effort at 3.0 incline/ 1:30 easy effort at 0.5 incline/0:30 fast effort at 0.5/1:00 easy effort at 0.5 incline.Followed with leg strengthwork.
                    Sa: 10.5 miles very easy outside (9:02) plus drills and strides, live streaming yoga, and upper body weights/core.
                    Su: 15.5 miles including 14 progressive, split as the first 4 miles averaging 8:43 pace, the next 4 averaging 7:36, the next 6 averaging 6:43, and then a 1.5 mile cooldown. Followed with some leg strengthwork and live streaming yoga.

                     

                    I'm getting really spoiled with the convenience of these streaming yoga classes - no need to get to the studio early, find a spot, etc.  And....since it's a national yoga studio that is streaming classes from all of the locations in all of the time zones, there's basically a live yoga class starting every 15 minutes, starting at 6 am my time and going until 11 pm...

                     

                    Best part is, I can do yoga in split shorts now....

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    CalBears


                       

                       Calbears - the fact that you ran 8.07 miles on Friday evening is driving me insane - it wrecks an otherwise perfectly symmetrical week - like a tile pattern.....

                       

                       

                      Strava always finds a way to destroy beautiful things - yeah, think about it - 13.13, 8:08 and 111.1. Why in the world they decided to ruin the perfectness??? 

                       

                       

                      Su: 15.5 miles including 14 progressive, split as the first 4 miles averaging 8:43 pace, the next 4 averaging 7:36, the next 6 averaging 6:43, and then a 1.5 mile cooldown.

                       

                      At this point I would inevitably be thinking about sub 2:55 

                       

                      Re kiwis - agree - I have never seen so many of that kind in one place  Until this year I only knew Piwi Kiwi, now there are like dozens of representatives - I wonder why RWOL was not that attractive to them as runahead is?

                      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                         

                         

                        At this point I would inevitably be thinking about sub 2:55 

                         

                         

                        Whelp, that was the goal, before a) I got hit by a truck (November), and then b) threw out my SI joint (February), and then c) ended up in the middle of a pandemic (now).    Hopefully the world will calm down before I get too old to run fast.

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        Re kiwis - agree - I have never seen so many of that kind in one place  Until this year I only knew Piwi Kiwi, now there are like dozens of representatives - I wonder why RWOL was not that attractive to them as runahead is?

                         

                        Any Kiwis care to chime in?  I am curious as to the surge...

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          Any Kiwis care to chime in?  I am curious as to the surge...

                           

                          Well, half of us were on here already so I guess search engine optimisation is trying to get the other half on here too.

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                          Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          Marky_Mark_17


                            Magrawlas - welcome!! Quite a few kiwis over on the sub-1:30 half marathon thread (including one who lives in Wellington) but I'm the only regular on this thread.

                             

                            Anyway, I'd say Wellington is unlikely but it is still an outside chance.  We'd need to be at Level 1 for larger races to happen, and I think realistically that's probably at least 5-6 weeks away - maybe longer.  However I think the odds on Wellington being deferred until late July or early August are probably pretty good as there's not much on the calendar then (September is really busy).

                             

                            Others will be able to help more in terms of adjusting your training programme... in terms of some of your other questions:

                            • Hydration and nutrition are pretty individual - try practicing your planned approach during a long run.  I personally grab water whenever I can, and would take 3-4 gels for a full marathon, staggered evenly - but we're all different!
                            • Don't stop at the water stops if you don't need to - just grab a cup and keep going like Calbears suggests.  Stopping and starting is a momentum killer.
                            • Most courses will end up with you running a little longer than exactly 42.2km, since the course is measured from the optimal running line and unless you run the tangent of every corner perfectly, you'll likely end up at 42.3-42.4km, not enough to really impact pacing but bear that in mind.

                            3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                            10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                            * Net downhill course

                            Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                            Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                            dpschumacher


                            3 months til Masters

                              Mark Jealous of the prospect of a marathon.  It is looking less and less likely that i'll get to race this year.

                               

                              Magrawlas-  I agree with Mark.

                               

                              DW-I'm with you on all the drills.  I since i have been working from home, I have really been spending 30-45 min a day doing drills to fix my issues.  Old injuries and constant fight stop them from coming back.

                               

                              Missed postling last week.  here are my last 2 weeks.  both about 86.5 miles plus or minus a few tenths.

                               

                              M 20-Apr 9 1:07:33 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides last mile.... lunch run. some left heel, knee, achilles pain. Did some drills after run to strengthen left leg and then slapped some ice on all of it.
                                  4.1 0:31:56 5am jog easy
                              T 21-Apr 11.35 1:25:34 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides in last half mile.
                              W 22-Apr 10.68 1:13:32 3 x 1mi in 5:40-5:50 w/ 800m recovery w/ 3mi w/u & 3mi c/d
                              Th 23-Apr 11.1 1:23:15 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides...felt the knee and Achilles a little bit but exercises are helping.
                              F 24-Apr 10.9 1:21:35 Easy run on the south part of the river. Nice place to avoid people. Lunch run. 6x100 in last mile. Took it really really easy for tempo tomorrow. Cut it a little short cause i had to hope on a conference call.
                              Sa 25-Apr 13.11 1:29:14 Uptempo (target 6:10/mi) 10k GnG course + w/u & c/d...10k in 38:21 tempo...rounded it out for 13.1. Ran in place of canceled Get in Gear Half marathon. Tried Hoka carbon x for first time. Legs feel good, but they are sure heavy compared to my New balance 890. I don't know if i would race in them, but the extra cushion really helped the recovery at the end. also really helped with my left knee and achilles which feel great.
                              Su 26-Apr 16.35 1:58:37 Glorious season opening on Pike Island. Ran with hazel. Amazing to be on soft surfaces. Legs felt good. A little slow in the sand and muddy parts, but on the whole a perfect run in perfect weather.
                              M 27-Apr 9.11 1:06:14 Running down at Ft Snelling. Went a bit quick for an easy run but it was perfect out and I love running down there. Just a perfect run. Lunch run
                                  4.4 0:33:55 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides, ran it on some of the single track trails in snelling and bit it on a root. fudge.
                              T 28-Apr 11.02 1:18:42 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides, got rolling a little fast in the rain. Rain makes me roll.
                              W 29-Apr 10.44 1:09:41 2mi w/u then 2 x 400 @ 80 (78,81) w/ 400 recovery, 800 @ 2:50 (2:49) w/ 800 recovery, 1mi @ 5:40 (5:40) w/ 800m recovery, 800m @ 2:50 (2:51) w/ 800m recovery, 2 x 400 @ 80 (80, 78) w/ 400 recovery, c/d to 10mi Felt really good. Everything was fast but in control.
                              Th 30-Apr 11.08 1:20:49 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides...took at shot at the Fort Snelling segment.
                              F 1-May 11.17 1:24:45 Ran the segment again....3 seconds slower so i may hit both on sunday. Leg and knee a little sore so i when and ran on minnehaha track afterwards. I started at 4:40 and sunrise was at 6:00. I got home at 6:08. Didn't run it all down in Snelling because it was just too dark down there for me to see the path well and not twist an ankle.
                              Sa 2-May 18.12 2:05:29 15mi easy w/ 3mi @ 6:30/mi finish...Great day. Out the door just before 5 am. 3 nokomis loops of 6 miles...felt really easy. Most miles between 6:55-7:10 for first 15 miles. Went for a 6:30 effort w/o looking at watch. Moved strong, but relaxed and cruised last 3 miles...turned out they were 6:20, 6:23, 6:15. Moved marathon goal (since it will be a virtual marathon) to 6:30 pace to drop below PR pace, but be able to recover easily and get back at training. The last 3 miles were only mildly harder in feeling than the first 15.
                              Su 3-May 11.36 1:22:45 Ran both 1/4 mile up hill segments....first time in a long time that I lost almost all ability to sprint on the second segment. otherwise felt good and got the miles in.

                              2023 Goals

                              Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18

                              10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)

                              5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)

                              Sub 1:16 Half Marathon  City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)

                              Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)

                               

                              2024 Goals

                              Sub 2:37 Marathon

                              Sub 1:15 Half

                              Sub 34 10k

                              Sub 16 5k

                               

                               

                              CalBears


                                Forgot about some bragging point - first time since I started running seriously in 2011 I had 2 months in a row above 400 miles - 431 in March and 438 miles in April. It's kind of weird - I thought actually I had it, but no - I had bigger months - 464 in 2015, 494 and 515 in 2016, but never had two consecutive months in a row above 400. Looking forward to make it 3 in a row .

                                paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile