2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 585 times)


Elite Jogger

    And another Hadd's test today:

     

                                   140                150                 160                  170

     

    04/03/20                       8:01             7:16                 6:53                 6:29

     

    05/15/20                       7:48             7:02                 6:32                 6:11

     

    07/03/20                       7:37             7:07                 6:35                 6:13

     

    Looks like the fitness settled down, all signs points toward lowering the mileage and doing some speed block - maybe another week or two though.

     

    Btw, I was running with HRM-RUN chest strap today and Garmin finally decided to detect my LTHR numbers and reported that it's 6:37mpm and 168bpm. I guess that means I might now switch from running Hadd's 10 milers from 150bpm to 155bpm as a next step (I got tired running at 150 bpm anyway 

     

    I’m sure you’ve still made fitness gains since the last one and also - the tests are supposed to be on a track on a windless day and rested as if for a race. You probably haven’t recovered from those 4 marathons last week. 

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

      Cal -

       

      You (and Sergey Bubka) will be relieved to know that Joey Chestnut set the hot dog eating world record AGAIN today with 75 hot dogs + buns in 10min (which topped his old record of 74).

       

      Happy 4th of July to everybody!

      dpschumacher


      Making a comeback

        Hey all...slowly getting back to running. Building up mileage again. Cal's training results are interesting. Cool to see someone to really do that over a longer period of time. Mankato was chosen not so much for the downhill and more so due to my brother living 15 min from start and only 1.5 hours from home. Still hopeful!

        2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

        2020 Goals:

        5k:16:30

        HM: 1:18:00

        Marathon: 2:45:00

        New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

        CalBears


          rovatti - seriously, the last thing I care about is that guy and his hot dog "record" - US itself set so many "records" this year and they are so disappointing and the year is still is only at its half 

           

          dps - you are right, it's pretty difficult to keep those things for a long time, it takes some discipline and I am surprised I had 3 tests by now, I am everything but discipline 

           

          Mikkey - marathons were two weeks ago, not last week Smile , but you are right anyway - I feel exhausted...

           

          My week was ok, nothing unusual, just regular stuff, though I did another Hadd's test - had a very good improvement at 140 bpm mark, but everything else was off 3-5 seconds comparing to the last time. Though, I should note that two previous times I was running 1.5 miles at certain HR, then I was taking 90 seconds walk before starting the next run at higher HR. This last time I was not taking any walks, maybe it had some impact at the final result, but I doubt it was very significant.

           

          Mon - 13.17 @8:34 - am / 4.25 @9:42 - pm

          Tue - 15.27 @7:46 (10 miles @150 bpm @7:17) - am / 4.23 @10:02 - pm

          Wed - 13.2 @8:53 - am / 4.24 @10:03 - pm

          Thu - 13.18 @8:31 - am

          Fri - 13.11 @8:03 (Hadd's test 140-7:37/150-7:07/160/6:35/170-6:13) - am / 4.21 @10:01 - pm

          Sat - 15:22 @9:15 - pm

          Sun - off

          ===

          Total: 100.1 miles

           

          My fourth month in a row with a mileage of over 400:

           

          March - 431

          April   - 438

          May   - 487

          Jun    - 448

           

          Really ridiculous numbers even for me, nothing close to this ever happened to me, my highest mileage year was 2015, when I set almost all my PRs and I ran 3045 miles that year.This year is only barely through its half and I already ran 2406 miles - two more months and I will pass my yearly PR number. I wish racing was out there, so I could check if that kind of work has any relation to results. Will keep the faith even if there are no races this year, I think I will be able to grind through it for the next year too, though it is obviously going to get more and more difficult, I have to have a very strong beliefs to continue, for obvious reason of no proof...

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

            Cal: Nice job on another 100 mile week! Regarding your Hadd test, now that you mentioned you took no walk breaks between reps, I think this is why your results for the last 3 were not much improved (but the first one, when you were fresh, was improved). Not sure if you just totally omitted the walk and have no break between segments or jog instead of walk, but either way to me that would make a pretty big difference. If you try again with the original procedure I think all the HR zones would be faster.

             

            My week is done after a brutally humid hilly long run this morning. Horseflies were out in force. The only "workout" this week was a run with 2 big hill repeats. This week I will try to do some kind of tempo run, though the pace will be slower since it's supposed to be hot/humid all week.

             

            BTW, thanks Flavio for the new strava generator!

             

            Date Name Distance
            in mi
            Duration Avg Pace
            per mi
            Elevation Gain
            in ft
            06/30/2020 Morning Run 10.08 01:20:42 08:00 633
            07/01/2020 Morning Run 10.12 01:22:40 08:10 636
            07/02/2020 Morning Run w/ 2 x hills 12.36 01:45:13 08:31 1594
            07/03/2020 Morning Run 8.37 01:08:13 08:09 568
            07/04/2020 Trails in Sega Park 8.26 01:14:35 09:02 610
            07/05/2020 Hilly long run 18.08 02:21:35 07:50 1401

            Total distance: 67.26mi

            2:52:16 (2018)

            darkwave


            Mother of Cats

              60.5 miles
              M: Upper body weights/core and streaming yoga
              T: 12 miles outside, including a track workout of 2x1200m, 3x800m at hard aerobic effort, and then 4x200m at mile effort. Splits were 4:36, 4:36, 3:06, 3:04, 3:01 and then 41, 41, 40, and 41. Just under 3 minutes recovery for the 1200s, 2:40-ish recovery for the 800s, full recovery for the 200s. Followed with leg strengthwork and streaming yoga.
              W: 8 miles very easy outside (9:26), streaming yoga, 4 miles very easy on treadmill (8:56), plus drills and four strides.
              Th: Upperbody weights/core in morning; streaming yoga in afternoon.
              F: 12 miles outside, including a track workout 2x3200m at tempo effort, and then 4x200m at mile effort. Splits were 13:09 (6:35/6:34), 13:05 (6:37/6:28) and then 42, 41, 41, 41. 5 minute recovery between the tempo segments; full recovery for the 200m repeats. Followed with some leg strengthwork and streaming yoga.
              Sa: 10 miles easy outside (9:26) then drills and four hill strides plus streaming yoga.
              Su: 12 miles progressive, split as first three miles averaging 9:22, next four averaging 7:49, next five averaging 7:08. Followed with a 2.5 mile cooldown, leg strengthwork, and streaming yoga.

               

              DPS - I would be hopeful for Mankato as well.

              Calbears - is the weather the same for each of these Hadd tests? I would think that would be a confounding factor also. I know I'm running significantly slower than I was a few weeks back, and it's not because my fitness is going backwards, but because it warmed up around here.

              JTreeves - I hate horseflies - hate them hate them hate them. Awful creatures (and I like spiders, snakes, etc).

              Rovatti - I can't read about someone eating that many hotdogs without getting nauseous.

               

              As I mentioned, it's gotten warm around here.  I'm not handling as well as I did last year, and I suspect that it's because I've slacked off on my past heat training.  I used to regularly spend 10-20 minutes in a sauna at 180 degrees, and also do my easy runs in a longsleeve - those things seemed to help remarkably with my performances in workouts on hot/humid days.  I no longer have access to a sauna due to Covid 19, but I do have a black car with a dark interior that I park outside, so I think I'm actually going to start using that a bit (no joke).  I also reintroduced doing my easy runs in a longsleeve this week.

              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

               

              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              dpschumacher


              Making a comeback

                Nice job on the mileage Cal.  I'm going to have to keep creeping up my mileage as well if I want to grind down my times since my fast twitch is leaving me so I need the endurance to keep lowering my times.

                 

                JT Weather as been a killer the last week here.  Temps have been hot, but the humidity has just been soul crushing.

                 

                Dark-Long sleeve running in heat and car training.  2020 is a wild wild world.

                 

                My last few weeks including the marathon.  Like I said it was a box to check on little sleep to justify all the running I have done since last fall.  Started to feel it at mile 22. Picked it up a bit, but couldn't grind the last few miles mentally even though the legs were there.  I just couldn't mentally take myself to a place to really make my self hurt in a virtual race.

                 

                M 15-Jun 9.04 1:09:24 0:07:41 Legs really stiff. Just took it easy and used it as a shake out.    
                T 16-Jun 9.03 1:05:40 0:07:16 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides. Legs feeling better. 6:45 am run. Willow was born at 7:24 pm this evening.    
                W 17-Jun 7.07 0:52:49 0:07:28 Got home at 10:30 pm from the hospital. Went for the 7 mile run and moved workout to tomorrow. Not ideal being this close to marathon, but no way I could run it on this little sleep and this late at night. 6x100m last mile striders Actual 70
                Th 18-Jun 8.52 0:55:58 0:06:34 2mi w/u, 2 x 2mi @ 6:10-15/mi w/ 0.5mi recovery, 2mi c/d....Hit this pretty well. First 2 mile (6:09, 6:15) took a couldn't really find the groove on the pace as it was early morning and I was still on little sleep. Second 2 mile was right on (6:13, 6:12). Ran this in the carbon x to make sure they felt good for marathon. They are clunky on slow bits but super smooth sub 6:20.    
                F 19-Jun 5.01 0:36:14 0:07:14 Easy w/ 6 x 100m strides, 1 pm, hot out    
                Sa 20-Jun 3.04 0:22:20 0:07:21 Striders at the end    
                Su 21-Jun 28.29 3:05:25 0:06:33 1 mile warm up and some striders/drills. Ran 26.25 to make sure i went the full distance. 2:48:40 (2:48:25 at exactly 26.22). Felt really good, but couldn't lock in and grind the last 10k like I hoped. Being that it was not a real race and on minimal sleep the last 3 nights, I just mentally couldn't take myself there to really grind down. 5 min faster than my previous best. I felt like i could keep clipping off 6:26 pace a few more miles, but just didn't have the next gear to go faster mentally. I think the biggest struggle is I just really haven't raced in a long time and workouts just don't get me to the dig deep, empty the tank, place. Hopefully can set up some time trials or runs with guys from the club who are much faster so I can simulate something closer to a race. A fast 5k, 10k or something. I think I will be able to really do well at Mankato if it is held in October. Did a one mile shake out before bed so my legs didn't seize up over night.    
                M 22-Jun 0     30 min walk with pup quads are sore    
                T 23-Jun 0     38 min walk with pup quads are a little sore    
                W 24-Jun 3.02 0:21:32 0:07:08 Clipped right along and felt like it was just a normal run. No soreness or stiffness. Feel 100% Actual 31.93
                Th 25-Jun 6.02 0:44:41 0:07:25 felt good. pace on average was likely closer to 7:15 but had some gps issues. felt smooth and good.    
                F 26-Jun 6.03 0:42:06 0:06:59 Was cruizing pretty easy. Ran this one quick cause it was late and I needed to get back to help Jess get Willow to bed.    
                Sa 27-Jun 5.84 0:39:55 0:06:50 Watched the marathon attempt by the Collegeville boys and ran a couple miles with them on Nicollet Island.    
                Su 28-Jun 11.02 1:18:31 0:07:07 Started out hot was going to aim for 6:30-6:40, but Hazel got hot and decided to lay in the grass. Had to stop a few times for her and had to jog it in cause she was too hot. Short easy runs only for the rest of the summer for her.    
                M 29-Jun 6.06 0:43:37 0:07:12 late run. hot as he'll. lost 6 lbs in 6 miles    
                T 30-Jun 8.02 0:59:53 0:07:28 5 am run. very foggy, humid. 73° heat index 80°    
                W 1-Jul 10.07 1:07:35 0:06:43 6mi @ 6:10-6:20/mi w/ 2mi w/u & 2mi c/d. Gonna be 70's with 90% humidity in the morning, depending on how things feel, trust the effort instead of the watch....felt moderate and not too bad despite hear and humidity. was totally soaked after 2 mile warm up. 6:16.3 6:21.9 6:18.1 6:09.7 6:17.6 6:12.9 Actual 57.94
                Th 2-Jul 8.22 1:01:37 0:07:30 Ran with hazel at 4:55 am. Nice to be out of the heat, but it was super super humid.    
                F 3-Jul 6.04 0:41:49 0:06:55 Easy but got cruising. 6x100m in the last mile    
                Sa 4-Jul 13.5 1:33:17 0:06:55 Very hot and humid. Ran the mendota/lillydale loop which is not a fast run. Felt good and longest since marathon, but the humidity and heat plus no water limited the pace. Great to run with Alex Cole. It would have really been a grind solo.    
                Su 5-Jul 6.03 0:45:01 0:07:28 88 degrees and 95 degree heat index. Tried to keep it easy, but HR was just super high with the heat...decided to just get it over with and picked up pace a bit.    

                2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                2020 Goals:

                5k:16:30

                HM: 1:18:00

                Marathon: 2:45:00

                New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

                JMac11


                Taper Czar

                  Jt - haven't posted much here but haven't caught up with your running in a long time. Glad to see you're doing well. Let's hope the northeast has some running in the fall and you can get a crack at a PR. Also saw you note the horse flies, which I know kill you every summer. We were up in VT 2 weeks ago and had to deal with black flies. So incredibly annoying, worse than mosquitoes. Took 2 weeks for the bites to go away completely.

                  5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                   

                  Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                  jhudak55


                    63.7 miles

                    M: 3.1 miles recovery (9:31)

                    T: 7.9 miles with 2x2 tempo (6:48, 6:48 & 6:48 & 6:46) with 0.5 mile recovery in between

                    W: 14 miles ML run (8:33)

                    T: 3.1 miles recovery (9:29)

                    F: 14 miles ML run (8:54)

                    S: 4.2 miles easy (9:31)

                    S: 16.4 mile progressive long run with first 5 averaging 8:47, middle 5 averaging 8:01, last 5 averaging 7:15

                     

                    Cal: Nice week. I wouldn't worry about the results of your recent test, but results like that always make me look forward to the next test/fitness check.

                    DW: A car sauna is definitely a creative solution. What are you going to do about all the sweat in your car? Asking because I have a seat cover I use when driving after runs which doesn't work as well as I'd like.

                    Longboat


                    On the roads again...

                      Just 2 miles this week, three trials of my strained hip adductor, stopping each time in starting acting up. At least they were progressively better -- almost a mile yesterday.  
                      Should be able to start back this week.

                      Cal - As others point out, weather and no walk breaks could explain the smaller change in the Hadd test, but I agree with your thought on changing the training phase. You're definitely on the diminishing return part of the improvement curve. Monotony of training can be a factor in overtraining; you clearly have some resistance to that, and you have varied the weeks somewhat. But now you'll get a better return by changing the pattern for a while. If you start the 100-mile weeks again later, I suspect your starting point could be faster than your recent tests.

                       

                      Don't envy those in the heat and humidity these days! Good weeks, darkwave, jhudak.
                      DPS - solid mileage considering your baby and the weather. Hope Mankato works out for you.
                      JT - Very consistent week! When I lived in Ontario, those damn horseflies would chase me down the country roads. Other runners liked to run with me because the horseflies would all be on my back. Yuk. BTW, I love the SG-1 series, have most seasons on DVD (but not sure I have a DVD player any more). 
                      JMac - Don't even get me started on black flies! If they're outside, I'm not.

                      Neil

                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

                      Running Problem


                      Curmudgeon

                        52-53 miles. No speed work. Not running races any time soon. I've also decided to start trying to run earlier in the morning to avoid the heat. Thankfully COVID 19 has given me the option to work from home indefinately and my kid decides I need to be away with breakfast made by 5:30am so I might as well go out when less people are walking their dogs or going for their mask free explorations into society.

                         

                        jhudak Check out Wet Okole. They are popular in the Tacoma world online.

                         

                        darkwave the Sauna isn't allowed due to covid 19? wow.

                        2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                          DW: Nice week! Seeing your track workouts makes me anxious to get to the track but I think I need a few weeks of roadwork before I go there.

                           

                          Horseflies: I did a bit of google research on them and learned some interesting things. Only the females bite, males don't even have the cutting/biting apparatus. The females need blood to reproduce. They are attracted to warmth, CO2, dark colors, and especially the color blue. They are most abundant near bodies of water. They are most active in warm, humid weather. Unfortunately my running route is mostly along a river, through a woodsy area, which explains why they are so abundant. The only useful thing I learned was to not wear blue shirts, but so far making that change has not reduced the intensity of the attacks.  They are the one species I would be happy about going extinct.

                           

                          DPS: Looks like you're back in the swing of things, nice recovery from the marathon. I was thinking your training reminded me of Swim's; unfortunately he has disappeared from this thread.

                           

                          JMac: Good to see you here! The little one must be due any day now... are you ready?

                           

                          Longboat: Hope that hip adductor heals up quickly. Seems like you caught it fairly early and have been smart about not running with it so you should get back out there soon. I had a really bad case of that late last year, made worse by me running a marathon with it and starting/stopping running when I should have just given it full rest. BTW, you can watch SG-1 on Hulu if you have that. We got to the episode where O'Neil meets the Asgard in person; when they use the 8th Chevron for the first time; one of my favorites. Always like episodes with the Asgard, especially Thor.

                          2:52:16 (2018)


                          Elite Jogger

                             As I mentioned, it's gotten warm around here.  I'm not handling as well as I did last year, and I suspect that it's because I've slacked off on my past heat training.  I used to regularly spend 10-20 minutes in a sauna at 180 degrees, and also do my easy runs in a longsleeve - those things seemed to help remarkably with my performances in workouts on hot/humid days.  I no longer have access to a sauna due to Covid 19, but I do have a black car with a dark interior that I park outside, so I think I'm actually going to start using that a bit (no joke).  I also reintroduced doing my easy runs in a longsleeve this week.

                             

                            Wear 5 layers of clothes on the treadmill and do a speed workout. I think that’s what Strugglr used to do before Boston. 

                            5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                            JMac11


                            Taper Czar

                               

                              Wear 5 layers of clothes on the treadmill and do a speed workout. I think that’s what Strugglr used to do before Boston. 

                               

                              DW - if you really want to heat train more, why don't you do more runs in the middle of the day? Maybe work can't afford you that opportunity all the time, but I would imagine at least one weekday and both weekend days. Not sure why you feel like you need a sauna, multiple layers of clothes, or your car (?!?). Running at noon on an 85+ degree day is going to be much better heat training than anything else you can do (see the solar radiation discussion over in 1:30).

                               

                              Also, relevant recent article on heat training:

                               

                              https://www.outsideonline.com/2415257/heat-training-benefits-2020-study?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=onsiteshare

                              5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                              CalBears


                                 Wear 5 layers of clothes on the treadmill and do a speed workout. I think that’s what Strugglr used to do before Boston. 

                                 

                                It was kayry, I think Dan (IAmDisappoint ?) did it too, but that was not heat adjustment - it was a sweat run.

                                paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile