2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 634 times)

JMac11


Taper Czar

    Cal - it did look like you tapered, but boy was that extreme. Do you always taper like that for these types of events? Hard to criticize given your past success, but pretty dramatic to go from how much you were running to taking 3 of the 6 days off and only 8 miles on the other days.

    5K: 16:42 (9/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 


    Elite Jogger

      Cal - Honestly that was a very impressive effort on Saturday and you shouldn’t be pissed off about it as you’ve never done anything like this before (ie, 4x400+ mileage months and then pretty much no taper for this event!  If you’ve been used to rolling hill runs then maybe the short loops with no elevation caused problems? That would drive me nuts having to start/stop every hour!

       

      Anyway, you’ve put in the mileage and really built up your endurance (which is the most time consuming) so you can pretty much do what you like now...hit the ultras or reduce mileage to say 80mpw with some quality and you’ll be golden for CIM. 

      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

         

        Thanks everybody for kind words! The only thing I could agree with you - it was a big effort, really was. The problem is that the training I thought I had and the result I had this past Saturday put me so down - I do not think I was that down ever in my whole "running history". Basically - last 3 years I didn't run much at all - 1000-1400 miles per year and I was able to run 100K races with 13K+ elevation gain in 13-15 hours. This time, after 16 weeks of 100+ miles weeks and about 25 very decent weeks before that I was absolutely, totally sure that I will be able to run at least 100 miles (24 loops) in 24 hours - that was my minimum goal - I was done by loop 16. Taking into account that the elevation gain within those 16 loops was basically non-existent and you start understanding the disappointment. Like, why bother why run some ridiculous miles just to get a mediocre result? Yes, it was hot during the day (101 oF), but still - I gave up at 9pm, exactly when it started to cool off. Though, now I think something was wrong from the very beginning, from 6am, when the temps were fine (60oF) - I had 125 bpm HR average running 9:45 pace, when I usually have 8:45 pace at that HR, especially after I only ran 24 miles for the whole week before the race.

         

        This is classic Oleg.  Still proud of you.

         

        Formerly Brewing - I like the new handle.

         

        Cinnamon - crazy about the chipmunk.

         

        JTReeves - I hear you on the humidity - we had a bad stretch of it here.

         

        Hi to the rest of y'all, I'm a bit limited on time, but will drop off my week (to explain the strange Strava, if nothing else.

         


        20 miles, 1500 yards of swimming, 5 "miles" pool-running, and 50 minutes slow walking on treadmill.
        M: Upper body weights/core and streaming yoga
        T: 12 miles outside, followed with streaming yoga.
        W: 8 miles, including a track workout of 3x1200, 3x400 in 4:42, 4:40, 4:36, 90, 87, 87. Recoveries of 2:40 after the 1200s; 90 seconds after the 400s. Hamstring/groin/butt grabbed up at end of last 400.
        Th: Core and gentle streaming yoga.
        F: Upperbody weights, core, and gentle streaming yoga
        Sa: 1500 yards swimming, gentle streaming yoga, and 20 minutes slow walking on treadmill.
        Su: gentle streaming yoga, upper body weights/core, and 50 minutes pool-running. Later 30 minutes slow walking on treadmill.

         

        I pulled a hamstring on Wednesday, in the very last steps of the last 400.  It was frustrating - my left leg felt a bit more nervy and weak than normal on Tuesday, so I bagged the workout that day.  Wednesday I went out for try two, warmed up, and things felt fine so I did the workout.  Felt fine until the very end of the very last rep.  So now I'm out for a few days.  It's progressing pretty quickly and I started some gentle jogging this week, so I don't think it's too big a deal.  But it does mean that I'm not racing the 5K I was planning on this weekend, and 99% certain I'm not racing the mile I was targeting next weekend.

         

        The good news, as I noted in the other thread, is that we suspect that I had some old scar tissue in the left hip from a previous hamstring tear that has been the source of my long term issues with the left leg, and that I may have actually split that scar tissue (and improved the hip) on Wednesday.  I felt a "pop" on Wednesday in my left hip when I did this, but it clearly was not a muscle, bone, or tendon tearing/breaking - things have improved way too quickly for that to be the case.  At the same time, my hip mobility, which has always been worse on the left, literally improved within hours of the "pop" - I now have equal range of motion in both hips.  And my left leg is no longer nervy at all.  So...this may have been a very good thing.  We shall see.

         

        At least they opened the pools back up.  It's all very complicated - I can't just drop in, but have to reserve a session and then go through a screening to enter the pool.  But it's working well and it's great to be back in the water.

         

        OMR, DPS (and maybe Cinnamon - not sure exactly where you are?) - I'm about 80% sure I'm going to register for that Mankato Half-Marathon in hopes of it happening. Heck, depending on how things look, I may swap to the full.  Though it looks like Richmond Marathon is pretty committed to having their race happen, one way or another.

         

        I'm also entered in the Fargo 10K, with hotel and flight booked, so I'll be coming to the Midwest for that, assuming no massive Covid travel restrictions, etc.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        Running Problem


        Curmudgeon

          Darkwave You should look me up in the phone book.   It was a random idea that came to me since I no longer brew, and is relevant to jeep stuff. I still don't think it is as good as "something clever" who hasn't come over since the big move of 2018.

           

          EDIT: I haven't heard of the hip popping. I can only imagine it's similar to when I had numbness in my hip or tendon pains that put me down earlier this year. Hope it works out for the best. Good luck on the half and 10ks. If travel restrictions come back it's taken a BIG toll for the worse.

          2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

          OMR


            cal:  A belated congrats on the effort, I agree with Dwave about your comment regarding the temps.  Also not sure if just one week of lower mileage would have been enough to get fresh after all of those 100+ weeks.  Personally, I've always felt horrible in the first week of a taper.  Anyhow...impressive.

             

            Dwave:  Mankato is about 5 hours from me, and school will be back in session, so I'm not sure if I'd be able to get down there for that event.  I'm still planning on signing up for the Fargo 10K, although I'm going to wait until the last minute so that I don't sign up for what becomes another virtual race.  I also never got that data from my test run posted...there was some road construction on the race route, so I had to take a few detours.  But, a couple of comments...

             

            •My Garmin recorded 17 feet of incline, which did not include coming out of or back into the FargoDome (add about 13.5 feet for that).  I'm going to assume they will move the start to outdoors, so that probably won't be a factor anyway.  I thought the 17 feet that it did measure was exaggerated.  There was one place where I felt I was running "extremely slightly downhill" for a couple of blocks, meaning maybe a foot or two of elevation drop in a few tenths of a mile.  Beyond the start/finish, I don't think there's more than about 10' of total elevation gain/loss.

             

            •If there is a wind, you will feel it at the start and finish.  Much of the middle is in a residential area with tree-lined streets, so you shouldn't feel too much wind in the middle miles.

             

            •Same goes for the sun if it is hot.  Quite a bit of the middle of the race should be shaded, especially in the morning hours.  The beginning and the end are more exposed.

             

            Not Brew:  Does this mean you have a problem that relates to running, or that you have a continuous problem that may or may not relate to running.  I'm confused.  FYI, I had a job interview a couple of weeks ago...at a brewery.  Didn't get called back for the second round, but was contemplating what it might be like to change careers.

             

            Hey to everyone.  With Twin Cities becoming a virtual event, I've backed out of racing it as a solo time trial.  I'll just run it as a long run and  focus on getting back into shape for 2021...maybe Twin Cities again.  With that, my coach and I decided to change the plan, so I've started working through a 16-week Half Marathon plan.  (Theoretically, this "could" line up pretty well with Mankato...hmm...)  Here's Week 1...

             

            T: 5.3M @ 8:36
            W: 7.8M @ 8:24
            T: 8.5M @ 8:19
            F: 9M Progression run @ 8:19 overall, last 10 minutes @ 7:32 --> 6:39
            S: 8.2M ~ 8:34
            S: Rest ("recovery kayaking")
            M: 15M @ 8:44 (winds gusting into the 30s/40s)

             

            Total: 53.8M

            Running Problem


            Curmudgeon

              Omr both? The Jeep has an anti freeze leak and the rear end isn’t currently operational so there is a running problem there. Ive also told people running is kind of similar to an addiction so while some have a cocaine problem I have a running problem. Oh and I just scheduled a phone interview with 5 people in about two weeks. Maybe going last is better. Maybe I’ll get the job this time since everyone who works there has about 6+ years of experience from what linked in says.

               

              dwave the pool scheduling you’re experiencing sounds similar to my mother in law’s experience locally. Unsure of the social distance requirements (I.e. every other lane closed/open) but I do know you can’t just sit around and hang out along the pool edge as if it’s a Starbucks/coffee shop.

              2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

              Longboat


              On the roads again...

                Recovery from my hip adductor strain seems to be on schedule. Built up to a 3.5 mile run by last Sunday; 10 miles total on 4 alternate-day runs. The adductor is still "there", but I wrap it up and it doesn't interfere with my stride or get worse during the run. Trying to step it up to 20 or so this week.


                Cal, I agree with the others -- temperatures and cumulative fatigue were major factors. Still a great effort.

                 

                darkwave, hope that hamstring both recovers and gets better than before. I accidentally got rid of plantar fasciitis like that; couldn't run, but I was jogging across the infield when coaching XC practice, and felt a big POP under my foot. It hurt like hell for an hour, then faded... and the next day, no more PF. 

                JTReeves - Did you happen to see 5000 at the Bowerman TC intra-squad "meet", last Friday? Moh Ahmed ran a  sub-4 mile to the finish, opening up a big gap over Lopez Lomong and finishing in 12:47.2. (Lomong also broke 13).

                Neil

                --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

                Running Problem


                Curmudgeon

                   

                  When do we start placing bets for the spring majors? I think vaccinations will have started at that point, but will there be enough people vaccinated for organizers to feel comfortable?

                   

                  Also Cal - amazing work. Your training has been insane this spring/summer.

                   

                  Weather - good to hear from you, going to continue to follow you on Strava as always!

                   

                  I might be out a few hundred bucks...

                  https://www.nj.com/eagles/2020/07/coronavirus-update-eagles-phillies-cant-have-fans-in-the-stands-as-philadelphia-bans-large-events-for-6-months.html

                   

                  If you can't have NFL football fans show up until after the Super Bowl I'm not sure it's ever going to be possible to host another big marathon again. Good by Philadelphia marathon. Good by Boston Marathon. See ya later New York Marathon. Glad I have bad memories from Chicago.

                  2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                     

                    dwave the pool scheduling you’re experiencing sounds similar to my mother in law’s experience locally. Unsure of the social distance requirements (I.e. every other lane closed/open) but I do know you can’t just sit around and hang out along the pool edge as if it’s a Starbucks/coffee shop.

                     

                    It's assembly line aquatics, so to speak.  You have a 15 minute assigned window in which to enter the building, and then marked stations for a) hand sanitizer, b) quick interview, c) temperature check, d) get colored wristband, e) shower.  Then onto the deck, where you place your bag in a specially marked spot and go to the lane or other area that is marked to match your wristband.  Then you get 45 minutes (enforced strictly) before you grab your bag and go out the emergency exit doors (i.e. no post-swim shower or changing of clothes).

                     

                    It's very complicated, but easy to follow, and works really well - they stagger all the times so that there's never any bunching of people.

                     

                    Jmac - interesting that you talk about a vaccine - my personal opinion is that small marathons are much more likely this fall then a vaccine.  I guess we shall see.  I'm living my life under the assumption that a vaccine is not happening any time soon.

                     

                    OMR - thanks for the pro tips.  I'm really hoping this one happens, especially since I now can't race this weekend or next.  BTW, I pulled the trigger on the Mankato Half

                     

                    Longboat - thanks.  This is looking like a similar situation, except that I also pulled the hammie at the same time.  The leg was really really nervy for the first day or two after I did it (I was also swollen in that sit bone area at the time)  And then the nerve pain just eased away.  PT confirmed last night that my left glute is firing much better than previously.  Go figure.

                     

                    Hammy is improving reasonably quickly - fast enough that it's clear that I didn't significantly damage it.  And frankly a missed week or two of training (and some races) will be totally worth it if this left leg problem has been fixed.

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      DW: Great to hear the hamstring is improving and that you helped your hip issue.

                       

                      OMR: Man, that Fargo course sounds just as good as the elevation profile looks. I wish they were having it later in the fall instead of Aug. 29; I was planning to do it in the spring prior to COVID bumping it, but August is too soon for me training-wise and I also worry it will be too warm. Eventually I'd like to run that one.  Nice week BTW.

                       

                      Longboat: Yes, I watched the BTC 5000s. Both great races! A couple of things stood out. For the women's race it was how easy it seemed for Shelby for the first 8 or more laps. She looked like she was on an easy jog, whereas the others looked like they were racing. I saw she has ambitions of sub 14 and sub 3:50 eventually. Both tall orders but I would not count her out. In the men's race it was Moh's stride that stood out, especially that last 1600m. Huge strides! Eating up the track like that with each lap faster than the last suggests he has even more time to cut. Pretty exciting. And talk about demolishing a national record!!

                      2:52:16 (2018)

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                         

                         

                        OMR: Man, that Fargo course sounds just as good as the elevation profile looks. I wish they were having it later in the fall instead of Aug. 29; I was planning to do it in the spring prior to COVID bumping it, but August is too soon for me training-wise and I also worry it will be too warm. Eventually I'd like to run that one.  Nice week BTW.

                         

                        I'm like...."it's a race!  It might happen!  I'm there!"

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                           

                          I'm like...."it's a race!  It might happen!  I'm there!"

                           

                          Totally understand for the 10k. Even if it's warm you'll be fine for that. Do you (or anybody) know if Jayluf is running Fargo?  He was also planning on it for the original spring date.

                          2:52:16 (2018)

                          OMR


                            Dwave:  No problem.  I saw your post in the HM thread about driving up on Thursday.  From the Minneapolis airport, I'd say close to four hours is about right, but you want to avoid rush hour traffic out of Minneapolis, west on I-94.  That probably begins to get congested around 3pm, unless there's an accident or road construction.  Once you get out of the city and suburbs, it is a pretty quiet drive (lots of farmland).  When you get about 20 miles from Fargo, things will flatten out drastically (welcome to the Red River Valley/Lake Agassiz).  I'm not sure about my schedule for Friday at this point, but hopefully we'll have a chance to meet without interrupting your pre-race schedule.  I'm thinking more seriously about the Mankato Half, too.

                             

                            Glad to hear the hamstring wasn't injured too badly, and the hip pop is interesting.  Mine pop rather routinely, and it always loosens things up.

                            Running Problem:  I'm going to assume the issue with the rear end is also on the Jeep?  Hope so...

                             

                            JTReeves:  Thanks.  I agree about the Fargo series being better if it was later, but I'm guessing there were too many potential issues about securing streets, using the FargoDome, and other conflicts.  Late August can still be hot for sure.  Most of our college's dorms do not have air conditioning, and sometimes the students roast for about a week after they arrive on campus.

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                              Dwave:  No problem.  I saw your post in the HM thread about driving up on Thursday.  From the Minneapolis airport, I'd say close to four hours is about right, but you want to avoid rush hour traffic out of Minneapolis, west on I-94.  That probably begins to get congested around 3pm, unless there's an accident or road construction.  Once you get out of the city and suburbs, it is a pretty quiet drive (lots of farmland).  When you get about 20 miles from Fargo, things will flatten out drastically (welcome to the Red River Valley/Lake Agassiz).  I'm not sure about my schedule for Friday at this point, but hopefully we'll have a chance to meet without interrupting your pre-race schedule.  I'm thinking more seriously about the Mankato Half, too..

                               

                              Thanks.  I land at MSP at around 9:30 am local time, so I should be fine, I'm thinking.  The logistics are looking fairly easy for this one.  I've even mapped out the Chipotles...

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              dpschumacher


                              Making a comeback

                                OMR/ DW....

                                 

                                FYI. Mankato said the should have an update on this week on how they plan to hold the race with restrictions. I think there is an 75% the races happen, but likely a rolling start (no gun times, all chip) and bare bones event (no expo, after party, etc). Which frankly I would welcome to get to race and I don't generally do the extra stuff anyway.

                                2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                                2020 Goals:

                                5k:16:30

                                HM: 1:18:00

                                Marathon: 2:45:00

                                New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**