Forums >Racing>2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber
Mmmm Bop
Finally RP - no, not age or lack of sleep. All of these issues have existed for about 2 months now, and given I just ran CIM for a PR, it can't be age. It just feels like with 0 workouts in 8 weeks, I am getting slower and slower. I was thinking it would be the opposite (if you're not running hard, shouldn't your easy runs feel a lot easier and therefore faster?)
Yep, it’s not age as you aren’t even 40 yet and you ran a 2:36 last December.
I'll have to admit that your easy run pace recently looks very odd as it was never that slow even when you were in full on quality mode with higher mileage. You haven’t plateaued so it’s not like 8:30 easy pace is the way forward for you! My mileage is lower than yours with little to no quality each week and my easy pace is similar. I agree with Cal and surprised that you’ve never had a watch with HR as it’s an extra data point and very useful imo.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Mother of Cats
Cal's point about faster workouts is exactly what I've noticed too: the more workouts I do, the faster my easy pace is. I remember when I was doing those Daniels mixed threshold/easy pace runs, I had a hard time keeping my easy pace north of 7:00 during the easy portion. It's like swinging a baseball bat with a doughnut on: you're going to swing the bat harder once you take it off. That's why I think I need to add tempo runs in here and there in this base period. Overall, I'm not too concerned, but I do think there can be something to your easy pace being too slow when you're just base building. One of the mantras we have here is that you want to keep your easy pace easy so that you can a) recover from hard runs and b) be ready for your next hard run. With no hard runs during base building, does that hold anymore
Cal's point about faster workouts is exactly what I've noticed too: the more workouts I do, the faster my easy pace is. I remember when I was doing those Daniels mixed threshold/easy pace runs, I had a hard time keeping my easy pace north of 7:00 during the easy portion. It's like swinging a baseball bat with a doughnut on: you're going to swing the bat harder once you take it off. That's why I think I need to add tempo runs in here and there in this base period.
Overall, I'm not too concerned, but I do think there can be something to your easy pace being too slow when you're just base building. One of the mantras we have here is that you want to keep your easy pace easy so that you can a) recover from hard runs and b) be ready for your next hard run. With no hard runs during base building, does that hold anymore
Honestly, possibly not. I think it's fine to let your easy pace be a bit faster when not doing hard workouts, since you don't need to recover from those workouts. But...letting your pace be faster is different from forcing it to be faster.
Overall, since we don't have races to use for comparison, we don't know whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.
I do think the point about doing some faster running being good for your gait is a solid one. Have you been doing strides and/or short hill repeats?
My thoughts (which obviously are take them or leave them) is that maybe add in some fast but low stress stuff. I'm thinking like strides, short hill repeats, jogging the curves and striding the straights of a track, 30 seconds on/60 seconds off. Something that takes little or nothing out of you (I do strides or short hill repeats after every easy run), but gives you much of the benefits of faster running.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
JMac - Didn’t Slammin think that you and DW know everything and everyone else just throws shit on the wall and see what sticks? lol
Dont discount the fact that Jmac is currently breastfeeding. That must be exhausting
Yep, it’s not age as you aren’t even 40 yet and you ran a 2:36 last December. I'll have to admit that your easy run pace recently looks very odd as it was never that slow even when you were in full on quality mode with higher mileage. You haven’t plateaued so it’s not like 8:30 easy pace is the way forward for you! My mileage is lower than yours with little to no quality each week and my easy pace is similar. I agree with Cal and surprised that you’ve never had a watch with HR as it’s an extra data point and very useful imo.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
JMac: you truly are a man of many talents!
Cinnamon: Where are you living now, the sun?! Crazy the heat you are dealing with, I guess I should not be complaining so much. Another nice track workout there btw.
RP: Nice week; hills are the way to go for training.
2:52:16 (2018)
I envy you guys as you all seem to be still having that urge for training - I am barely making it out of the door nowdays - missing 2 or 3 days a week running is not a problem for me now . I think that happened after I realized there won't be any big races at least until next year, spring for sure is out of the questions - I mean I bet there won't be Boston 2021, not in April at least. Who thinks otherwise I would advise checking the numbers for new covid cases - very stable 50-70K new cases a day for last month and a half. Good news though - that will hopefully make Mikkey retire later than he planned
my week:
Mon - no way
Tue - 10.03 @8:34 with 6x(200/200+200/200+400/400) - 200s - 38-39secs / 400s - 79-82 secs
Wed - 8:16 @9:08
Thu - 8:20 @8:35
Fri - no way - legs didn't feel fresh
Sat - 5x1T + 6x200/200 - 1T-6:16,6:11,6:11,6:08,5:49), 200s - 36-38secs - speedier than expected, probably because one more day off
Sun - no way
===
Total: 37.4 miles
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
So far SF still plans to hold their marathon...?
i haven’t run in over a week. I lost my treadmill my time my motivation, sleep too! I went from 3 days a week to 2, then 1, now I’m at zero 😞
hoping to restart in 2 days, for me also, no races doesn’t help with the motivation
RIP Milkman
Well thanks for the tips everyone. I have been running strides over the past few weeks, so I added in a tempo last night as I think I need more practice at faster paces. This was a great learning experience for me overall, as it was a lesson that just slow base building doesn't work for me. I just get slower and slower. I think I'll also see how the next few weeks ago and decide if I should go out and buy a HRM.
Cal - I'm surprised you're so down and out about the spring. I have been the most pessimistic person out there when it comes to races, but all evidence points towards a vaccine happening this winter. So it would be surprising to me if Boston 21 doesn't happen. Maybe it'll be a smaller field, which would suck (e.g. it's a lottery for everyone with a qualifying time), but otherwise I think it will go on.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
I would not be so sure vaccine is available in the winter. But let's say it's available in January. So, by February-March (when the decision is made about the race) we are out of the woods? Keep in mind that any vaccine is not a cure and if we take flu vaccine effectiveness, it's between 40 and 60 percent. Not only that, but how many vaccines will be applied by March do you think? Are you willing to be among the first who are vaccinated with a new vaccine? So, I think it will take a lot of time for good results to show up, imho. But, in any case, counties/states operate based on number of new cases, I think - at least in California they are basing their open/close policy based on that trajectory - that I guess will be the deciding factor. And I do not think if Massachusetts has fewer cases but California and Florida still have a lot of cases they still decide to go with the race. As they say - let's hope for the best and prepare for worst.
I am hopeful for spring and even fall races, but do not believe we will have a vaccine. Or that if we have a vaccine, that it will magically change everything.
Here is a good read. The history of the polio vaccine is particularly interesting - can you imagine how that would have played out in today's social media?
I think that we need to learn how to learn to live with this virus, including figuring out modifications that let us do as much as we can. And I think that learning to live with the virus is where the world will go, because there really is no other option.
Halting life until a vaccine appears is like waiting at a station for a train that may never appear, or that may not have enough seats if it does arrive.
Problem Child
cal Truthfully, I think the financial impact of Boston 2020 being canceled is enough to guarantee it is held in 2021. I can't imagine the State could go another year with no mass gatherings like they have this year. The number of cases isn't such a big deal when you start focusing on the recovery rate. So what if 50,000 people got COVID 19 if it has a 98.75% recovery rate? You're saying the 625 people who died (and had underlying medical conditions like Stage 4 cancer or a heart attack) are enough reason to keep people from gathering? Good luck getting through Christmas and canceling Black Friday shopping. That would be the most organized black friday shopping ever.
Cal - I'm surprised you're so down and out about the spring. I have been the most pessimistic person out there when it comes to races, but all evidence points towards a election happening this winter. So it would be surprising to me if Boston 21 doesn't happen. Maybe it'll be a smaller field, which would suck (e.g. it's a lottery for everyone with a qualifying time), but otherwise I think it will go on.
fixed it for ya.
JMac Just run by feel. I've started doing it since you told me to a long time ago along with listening to the body and it's really helped.
darkwave Back in April we were to hault life. I haven't seen how life has changed other than not waiting in lines at the grocery store, paper products and bleach can be found (and are overpriced) without limits, and the internet is filled with proof how masks don't work ZOOM isn't the best way to teach kids. I found out masks don't work well when I wore mine while sanding down metal. PLENTY of black boogers to let me know COVID 19 didn't get through.
Gizmo I don't see why SF WOULDN'T allow the marathon. If masks work then runners can wear them at the start and keep themselves away from runner. In San Francisco you're exempt from wearing a mask if you're exercising or outside. Literally no reason they can't have an outdoor marathon other than "well we said 50 people and we're afraid you'll spread COVID 19 while you're outside exercising." They even added an option to have your packet mailed to you (for a fee which I think is bullshit at $30/person) so they wouldn't need an expo. Besides, everyone afraid of getting COVID 19 would stay at home and the spread of COVID 19 could possible be directly tied to the marathon, OR shown not to have an impact.
"15 days to slow the spread!""Sorry, 30 days.""Never mind, two months.""Okay three months""Alright just shut it all down until we have a vaccine""Actually a vaccine won't completely stop it. Let's shut down until we can build corona-free colonies on Mars." — Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) August 3, 2020
"15 days to slow the spread!""Sorry, 30 days.""Never mind, two months.""Okay three months""Alright just shut it all down until we have a vaccine""Actually a vaccine won't completely stop it. Let's shut down until we can build corona-free colonies on Mars."
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
DW - I think that was a very pessimistic view of the future. I do agree it's not going to be a light switch where things just return to prev covid the second a vaccine comes out. But the idea that you can't go to a football game for "years" as they quoted in that article is absurd. If people are fearful of getting the vaccine, then okay, sure. But you can't hold the rest of the population hostage. If that's the view, then I guess restaurants and bars in cold parts of the country might as well close up shop forever because then indoor dining won't exist for years either. At some point, people who are vaccinated are going to get fed up with those who decide not to and they will demand reopenings.
My broader point is that if a group of people decide they don't want to get vaccinated, governments shouldn't keep everything shut down until those people are convinced. That's not the role of the government here. They did their job holding off until the vaccine and helped get the vaccine produced as fast as possible.
And finally, why that article was kind of dumb and pessimistic (not criticizing you for sharing, more WaPo which sometimes can venture a little too far away from journalism imo): comparing a coronavirus to HIV immediately demonstrates the bias. Those two viruses are nowhere near the same in their pathology and to think the pathway may be similar with "mediocre" drugs is laughable.
Cal - the point about it being only half effective: that still is huge. I had the flu this spring of a strain it's supposed to protect against. Did I feel like crap for a few days? Yeah. But the severity of the symptoms was way lower because I was vaccinated. This is what I expect this vaccine to do. We can't wait for 100% effectiveness. That's never going to happen nor should it be the expectation.
DW - I think that was a very pessimistic view of the future. I do agree it's not going to be a light switch where things just return to prev covid the second a vaccine comes out. But the idea that you can't go to a football game for "years" as they quoted in that article is absurd. If people are fearful of getting the vaccine, then okay, sure. But you can't hold the rest of the population hostage. If that's the view, then I guess restaurants and bars in cold parts of the country might as well close up shop forever because then indoor dining won't exist for years either. At some point, people who are vaccinated are going to get fed up with those who decide not to and they will demand reopenings. My broader point is that if a group of people decide they don't want to get vaccinated, governments shouldn't keep everything shut down until those people are convinced. That's not the role of the government here. They did their job holding off until the vaccine and helped get the vaccine produced as fast as possible. And finally, why that article was kind of dumb and pessimistic (not criticizing you for sharing, more WaPo which sometimes can venture a little too far away from journalism imo): comparing a coronavirus to HIV immediately demonstrates the bias. Those two viruses are nowhere near the same in their pathology and to think the pathway may be similar with "mediocre" drugs is laughable.
BRO! Where have you been? The numbers literally show that over 95% of the population is not even infected yet we keep these businesses and events shut down. The elected officials ABSOLUTELY CAN keep the majority held hostage. A negative test result, or even being one of the "recoverd" ones isn't granting people any kind of exemption from wearing a mask and socially distancing.
What is the cure for HIV?
How much of the population has HIV?
Why aren't people with HIV required to quarantine until they're cured or a vaccine comes out?
Where is the cure for RSV in babies?
How many states require vaccinations in order to get into school? I can tell you locally they had to unenroll kids because of a whooping cough outbreak and there are kids who weren't vaccinated at the high school.
Cytomegalovirus?
If you want to say comparing it to HIV demonstrates a bias I'll go RIGHT to RSV and you tell me exactly what shuts down when RSV spreads. I hope your daughter never gets it. My nephew was hospitalized with it and two kids in my son's class were as well. Thankfully we only got the 104F fever ER visit due to it.
If all you want is for the government to tell you there is a vaccine just remember people don't get the flu vaccine. I'm sure everyone across America would rush out to get the COVID 19 Vaccine if Donald Trump said there was one on October 1.
EDIT:
Oh yeah, remember that vaccine doesn't provide long term immunity. If people who have recovered from COVID 19 aren't exempt from wearing a mask then you shouldn't be either just because you got a shot. Antibodies are antibodies and since those who have them now can't go out and do what they want they people who get the vaccine shouldn't either. Otherwise we'd be able to open up the country with proof of a negative test or proof of being recovered.
Well... My point was that even if vaccine is available in January 2021, with the rate of the general population vaccination and 50% vaccine effectiveness (btw, it could be 20% or 30% or virus could mutate), I doubt a lot there will be sufficient evidence for Boston (or any other relatively big race) to happen - they will just not do that if the numbers are not drastically improved and that is not happening in a month or two. Look at the current numbers in California - they are still few times bigger than they were in the spring - considering that most businesses and services are still either closed (barber shops for example) or only partially opened (restaurants for pickup) - imagine what happens when all those opened again - they tried it and it lasted 3 weeks (???). I also cannot understand why US was hit so hard and why it is lasts for so long though in other parts of the developed world (with exceptions of course - India, Brazil, Chile, South Africa are on fire) it subsided significantly. It's kind of disappointing to be a "Number 1 country" in that category. To me it's a big blow to the whole country that used to boast to be the best of the best. Adding all the problems of the country that showed up very intensely the last few months and after reading articles like this in Forbes:
35 Best and Worst countries to raise a family
I wonder, JMac, how you can even ask why I am so down lately?
Well... My point was that even if vaccine is available in January 2021, with the rate of the general population vaccination and 50% vaccine effectiveness (btw, it could be 20% or 30% or virus could mutate), I doubt a lot there will be sufficient evidence for Boston (or any other relatively big race) to happen - they will just not do that if the numbers are not drastically improved and that is not happening in a month or two. Look at the current numbers in California - they are still few times bigger than they were in the spring - considering that most businesses and services are still either closed (barber shops for example) or only partially opened (restaurants for pickup) - imagine what happens when all those opened again -
California population: 39.56 million
California confirmed COVID 19 cases: 0.519 million
California COVID 19 deaths: 0.009501 million
1.8% of California's confirmed COVID 19 cases died (no information if they fell off a building, drowned, or had a heart attack. They just tested positive for COVID 19)
1.3% of California's population has tested positive for COVID 19.
The 1.8% dead from COVID 19 in California represent 0.024% of the population. 99.876% of the population is still required to socially distance because of the severity of this virus.
Over 98% of those who HAVE tested positive for it have recovered.
How about New York City.
Over 92% recovery rate and that's if you use ALL deaths that PROBABLY would have tested positive and you're at 89% recovery rate.
I just don't understand what there is to be worried about, or why I can't get a haircut, but I can eat without a mask on at a restaurant in California. At least in Nevada we have races that are more than virtual.