2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 674 times)

Marky_Mark_17


    Question for all the experienced marathon runners on here about post-marathon recovery (thanks JMac and Darkwave for your views on the other thread).

     

    Initially I had all the expected tightness and soreness.  First-week post-race was 3 very easy runs only (20 miles or so).  Second week mostly easy with a few accelerations (wouldn't call them workouts as such), 40 miles-ish (5 runs).  Both those weeks I had all sorts of tightness in my legs, which you'd expect, and to be honest running did not feel natural at all.  I averaged around 60 miles per week for most of my marathon training with a couple of weeks around 75.

     

    This week (third week post-race) the legs have felt a lot better and the last couple of days running has felt a lot more natural and I'm finding a rhythm again.  However, my heart rate has been unusually high, maybe 8-10 bpm higher than what I'd normally expect given the effort I was applying.  To be fair, while running HR probably been a bit on the high side ever since the race, I just wasn't taking much notice until now, albeit my resting HR is at normal levels.

     

    There's no other signs that anything else is amiss, sleep, general energy and resting HR levels are fine, is this high HR during runs likely to just be part of the body sorting itself out again?

     

    edit: the only other point to note is that it's been noticeably warmer and more humid here the last week, but I don't think that alone explains it

    5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

    HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

    Last race: Wairarapa Country Marathon, 11 Oct, 2:41:41 (PB)

    Up next: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 28 Nov (I HOPE!)

    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

    darkwave


    Mother of Cats

      JT: Yep. I’m doing the 18/70 plan and added recovery runs in lieu of days off. 

      Rehoboth Beach Marathon was cancelled today. Not quite sure what my plan is going to be going forward. I’ll figure something out over the next week or so.

       

      Sorry I've been absent all week.

       

      JHudak - really sorry about Rehoboth.  Really sorry.  If you are willing to travel far have you considered Tucson marathon, which is on the same date?

       

      I just swapped to the Jacksonville Half-Marathon the weekend before Xmas (no full for that one) - I actually like that date for a half better than early Decemberr.  Weather  - I'm curious as to your instincts as to how likely it is Jacksonville will happen.  Any insight?

       

      Brewing - I'm hoping Louisiana marathon happens in Mid-January.  That's the one I'm entered in and it reportedly has the permits in place already.  A back-up is the Museum of Aviation marathon, which is the same weekend.  A second back-up is the Athens Marathon that JTReeves noted.  In response to the question about whether I'd do both a January marathon AND Athens, the answer is "it depends"

       

      JTReeves - switching to Harrisburg given that forecast sounds like a good idea.

       

      Marky_mark: my HR being elevated for a few weeks after a marathon is something I've definitely experienced.

      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

       

      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

        Dwarkwave seriously? there is actually a marathon going on right now? I'm impressed. I honestly won't sign up for a single marathon because I expect them to get canceled, or the quarantine requirements for visiting a state are just not worth it. I don't know if I could keep training, taper, go back to training, taper, and deal with the financial impact of canceled races unless they're offering a100% worry free registration.

        Maybe  I SHOULD sign up for Athens because it's just about the same times as Boston and I MIGHT be able to snag another qualifying time there.

        2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

        weatherboy80


          DW: it seems like small to mid size races (I'd put Jax in that range) in Florida are moving forward as planned. It will be interesting to see how the recent trend of increasing cases play out over the next 2 weeks though.  I know Miami recently canceled, but believe they were part of a larger race organization.  I am currently planning to run the Space Coast Half at the very end of Nov (just waiting to officially pull the trigger for a few more weeks).  As I mentioned my local 5K went on as scheduled last weekend, but imagine if that was anywhere else nationwide they would have shut us down based on the congestion before and after the race (even though we started in waves).

           

          JT: Seems like a smart call given the weather.  As for breaking 16 I'd say I'm fairly close now especially with cooler weather, but it will take a few targeted types of workouts to be able to ensure I can hold that pacing. Other part is finding that motivation Wink  Assuming it happens I'm gonna focus on my half in 4 weeks so will start working on more threshold type runs over the next 2-3 weeks.

          5K: 16:15 (3/20)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            Weather - thanks for the insight!

             

            JTReeves - from what I heard, Northern Ohio was miserable to run - good call on skipping.

             

            ***

             

            64 miles, 1000 yards swimming and 3:30 hours of pool-running
            M: 50 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
            T:12 miles, including a track workout of 2x800, 2x1200, 2x800, 2x200 in 3:13, 3:11, 4:53, 4:49, 3:12, 3:06, 43 and 42. 2:4x-2:5x recovery after the 800s and 1200s; full recovery for the 200s. Followed with leg strengthwork, streaming yoga, and 500 yards recovery swimming.
            W: 9 miles very easy (9:06), drills and 4 hill strides, streaming yoga. 30 minutes of pool-running in the afternoon.
            Th: 50 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
            F: 12.5 miles, including a workout of 2x~2 miles in 6:47/6:55 and 6:45/6:34 with 3 minutes recovery between; full recovery; and then 2x~.25 miles with 1 minute recovery in 91 and 90 seconds. (all paces questionable due to watch reading from GPS rather than footpod). Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
            Sa: 12 miles easy (9:02), followed by drills, 6 hill strides, streaming yoga. 30 minutes pool-running in the afternoon.
            Su: 18 miles progressive, split as first 6 averaging 8:57, next 6 averaging 7:41, next 6 averaging 7:04 (GPS) or 6:53 (footpod), plus a half-mile cooldown. Followed with streaming yoga, leg strengthwork, and 50 minutes pool-running.

             

            I felt really (and apparently looked) tired during Tuesday's workout, and had some trouble going to sleep on Tuesday night ( for me, that's an early sign of overreaching), so I deliberately slept in on Wednesday and shortened my run to get back into training balance. That seemed to help, as I felt much better the rest of the week.

             

            My paces for my runs on both Friday and Sunday have a bit of a question mark - my latest watch tends to undermeasure distance substantially on my runs, so I've calibrated a footpod and now use that to measure distance/pace. The footpod seems to be quite accurate during track workouts (if I run 800m in lane 1, it reads .49-.50 miles). However, the watch has been losing the connection with the footpod from time to time, and relapsing to the GPS. When it does that, I get the GPS pace/distance readings, rather than the footpod ones. And there tends to be 10 seconds per mile difference between the two. My workout on Friday was run completely by GPS, while Sunday's run was based on the footpod for the first 12 miles, and then GPS for the last 6 (which were the ones I cared about the most).

             

            On Sunday, I was able to recover the footpod data directly from the footpod post run, giving me two sets of data for the last third of the run. Of course, no way to be sure either is correct, but my hunch is that the footpod is closer to the truth. For Friday, I'll just have to go with the GPS data, and know that I probably ran a little faster than that. I guess in the end it doesn't matter - effort is what counts.

             

            One more week of training and then I go back for my second round of PRP.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

              Weather: Breaking 16 min would be an awesome accomplishment; I think you should target that!

               

              DW: Very strong week. Good call taking it easier after Tuesday. Interesting what you said regarding the footpod. I only use the footpod on the treadmill, but the pace my Garmin shows is much different than what my treadmill shows. I wore the footpod on Sunday's run outside (with GPS on) to try to calibrate it; I'll see the next time I'm on the treadmill if it is more reasonable. From your experience should this "calibrate" the footpod to be more accurate?

               

              As DW noted it was the right call not to run Northern Ohio; by raceday the rain was 100% during the race and winds remained in the 16-20 mph range. I had made the decision by Thursday not to run it and did a hard workout that day on the TM (it was pouring rain in CT). As I mentioned above, the TM vs watch readings were way off; I had the mill set to 11 mph (5:27 pace) for the intervals but my watch was showing ~6:10 pace. The effort felt much harder than 6:10 but certainly not 5:27 pace. Hopefully I can calibrate the footpod and get a better agreement.

               

              Weather looks good for Harrisburg; almost no wind and little chance of rain; the only non-ideal factor may be the temp a bit on the warm side; 49 at the start and 59 by the finish. Not too bad and I will take it if that's what it ends up being. My son has come down with a minor cold as of yesterday which I really hope I can avoid catching.

              2:52:16 (2018)

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                I ran a 5k "race" time trial this weekend. It was SUPPOSED to be a 10k however....due to me going out WAY too fast combined with it being a two lap course I went for the 5k to get some kind of base for training. With Boston being postponed to the fall I have time to get some speed built back up. 20:19 for the 5k with a good kick at the finish. The heart rate was a giveaway I was going to blow up for the 10k. I didn't have it in my to answer the question on race day. Amazing how much I've lost this year with no races or desire to train hard. 6:36, 6:36, 6:26, 6:02 final kick. I'm satisfied with the overall performance and getting a 5k base for some training. It points to a 3:15 marathon which I've done before. It makes me feel better than a 3:25 tempo run feeling like I'm going to die.

                 

                JT hope it works out for you. Mt Charleston REVEL had a bigger temp change and it was miserable for me that day.

                2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                darkwave


                Mother of Cats

                   

                  DW: Very strong week. Good call taking it easier after Tuesday. Interesting what you said regarding the footpod. I only use the footpod on the treadmill, but the pace my Garmin shows is much different than what my treadmill shows. I wore the footpod on Sunday's run outside (with GPS on) to try to calibrate it; I'll see the next time I'm on the treadmill if it is more reasonable. From your experience should this "calibrate" the footpod to be more accurate?

                   

                  So...I use the Stryd footpod (not the Garmin one).  Stryd comes with calibration instructions that are impractical to follow - they want you to run 8 laps on a track stepping exactly on the line between lane 1 and lane 2 the entire time - which assumes that you are running on a track free of other runners.

                   

                  (Stryd also avows that very few people should need to calibrate their footpods, but judging from the comments I've read, there are quite a few people that need to calibrate and do not get accurate results out of the box)

                   

                  So...instead, I calibrated my foodpod over multiple runs with measured distances between landmarks or on the track - I'd set a calibration value and then see how the footpod's reported distances compared to what I knew the distance to be.  I iterated this over several runs, and finally settled on a calibration factor that seems pretty darn accurate.

                   

                  Here's a recent track workout.  I ran 2x800m (reported as 801m and 813m), 2x1200m (reported as .75 and .75 miles); 2x800m (reported as 806m and 796m) and 2x200m (reported as 198m and 197m).  For many of these, I had to run in lane 2 some of the time, so a reading of slightly longer than 800m doesn't seem off.

                   

                  The recoveries were either one lap of the track or 1.5 laps of the track - in either case I was jogging in the outside lane and also swerving back and forth to maneuver around others, so it's not surprising that the recoveries measure a bit longer than 400m or 600m.

                   

                  ***

                   

                  That forecast for Harrisburg seems pretty good - I'd give it an A-?  I hope you don't catch your son's bug.

                   

                  Brewing - 10K time trials sound awful.

                  Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                   

                  And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                    darkwave it was a local virtual race for a race organization I wanted to support. Their races are held on time with accurate distances and unique finisher medals. I'd like for them to stick around and a 5k just didn't seem like enough motivation to get off the couch. A 10k seemed logical when I've done a few 8 mile "tempo" runs and I think everything getting canceled has shown me I NEED that difficult challenging race to push myself beyond what is comfortable. I'm even crazy enough to pull out Jmac's bible and fire up a training plan for a serious attempt at a sub 20 5K for 2021.....if such things are allowed. A year ago I was anticipating I'd be preparing for a marathon training cycle right now. Now...5k rust buster training through the winter seems to be logical. If it all goes well I could have a 10K to race in April which could line things up for Boston 2021 training. It's all in my head as no one knows when anything will happen and if my fear of a winter COVID 19 lockdown ACTUALLY happens I can't say there would be more than time trails next March. Plus the loop I ran is a mostly flat 2.9 mile long with parking, bathrooms, water fountains, pedestrians with animals to weave around like race day, and an actual park so it's REALLY conducive towards a 5k/10k time trial. I just need to finally accept I'm no longer in sub 3 shape and taking 15 minutes off my calculated marathon times is reminiscent of CIM 2016 (3:13), Chicago 2018 (blew up at halfway), Vegas 2019 (3:05:26 and medical tent) and CIM 2019. CIM 2021 is possible to aim for at this point. Athens would be a good one to run if I had an reason to believe I was in Vegas 2019 shape. The 10k time trial just builds that "answer the question" mental toughness I feel like I've let slip without any road races.

                    2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.


                    Elite Jogger

                      JT - Great call on switching races and those temps don’t look too bad and the lack of wind means that you’re still on for a 2:47 attempt! 

                       

                      I also only use a footpod on the treadmill and ended up settling on 98% calibration factor which means the treadmill/watch readings are roughly the same. If your watch is only showing 6:10 pace when the treadmill is at 11mph then it’ll obviously need to be adjusted to more than 100%. Anyway, treadmills are for wimps so that’s all I’m saying on the subject!

                       

                      RB - That’s not a bad 5k TT at all. 👍.  10k races are my least favourite distance. 👎

                      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                         Brewing - 10K time trials sound awful.

                         

                        Yes, a 16.1 km time trial would be much nicer. 

                        RP: Nice job on the 5k TT. I've started out on a 10k TT a couple of times and bailed early; nothing wrong with that especially if you still get something out of it which you did. Sounds like you're a maybe for Athens? Maybe we can get a group of us there. I do think it would be a nice venue for a Cal vs Mikkey showdown.

                         

                        DW: Thanks for the explanation on the footpod; the Stryd footpod seems much more advanced than mine. I just looked and for a Garmin 235 watch this is what it says:

                        Foot Pod Calibration

                        The foot pod is self-calibrating. The accuracy of the speed and distance data improves after a few outdoor runs using GPS.

                         

                        I'll wear it on a few more outdoor runs and see how things look next time on the treadmill. 

                         

                        Mikkey: Treadmills are for wimps? Wimp season is starting for me pretty soon!

                        2:52:16 (2018)

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                          JT why stop at 16? Might as well do the whole 42km to get an accurate estimate of fitness. (Insert smiling with broken teeth emoji)

                          2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                            Mikkey - Have you checked out Borat's new running kits???

                            ...and nothing says KingDong like his new "mask-mankini"

                             

                            It's time for an upgrade or a makeover.


                            Elite Jogger

                              Yep, I’ve got a new n95 mankini!

                              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                Just popping in to with JTReeves a great marathon!  Are you doing the Saturday or Sunday version?

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.