Forums >Racing>2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber
Speed Surplus
Way to hang in there for the sub-3, Andres!
DW, looks like a solid HM time if not a PR. Nice race.
Just a short update from me. I'm 3/3 in hitting 40+ miles per week this year, according to plan. I'm going to try to average 50 in Feb/March, then 60 in April/May. And registration opens tomorrow for the Tunnel Marathon in June, so by this time I'll know if I got in or not. Fingers crossed!
Oh, I also entered a Parkrun on a whim this weekend (a friend mentioned that he was doing it and it was near where I live) and took it down. Felt great to win the race overall and complete a rust buster. My pacing wasn't the best, as I took it out somewhat conservatively to see if anyone would be racing me. At the turnaround I realized I was at least 200m ahead and so I tried to pick it up a bit, but it was too late for a PR. Split roughly 6:20/6:20/6:00 and the race was a tad long on the GPS (3.15). 19:30 official, and roughly 19:15 at 5k. That's in line with my last 5k from last March (19:17), but... that race had hills. However, I was un-tapered and I can't remember the last workout I did, so I'm happy with it.
Got a free pic with some nice race face, too!
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
Mother of Cats
Andres - I'd be very interested in seeing your training and especially your taper. My hunch is that this is a taper issue more than a fitness issue.
Also - what was your nutrition like before and during? Could that have played a role?
SC - congrats on the Parkrun win, and nice pic!
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Cobra Commander Keen
Swim - Do you use a canned plan, or more individualized training from Steve? Thus far I've been using Daniels/modified-Daniels-style program while switching workouts targets from pace to power, and usually switching distance for time duration.
JT - Typically I use the TM to escape bad weather, though occasionally I'll use it to really nail execution (power targets) for a workout. About half of my usual 10 mile loop is on dirt/gravel roads that naturally get ruts when someone drives over them after a rain. I run in quite a rural area and even the road through town has no shoulder or sidewalk, so I do have to accommodate traffic and road conditions and the TM definitely helps. It took me a while before I was comfortable running workouts with a headlamp, but I've learned where most of the pot holes are in the paved roads and how to best avoid rough spots on the dirt roads.
Andres - I'll echo DWave and say I'm quite interested in your training and taper as well.
SC - Nice job picking up the win.
Had a decent-ish tempo workout this morning. The first two intervals were just fine, but it seemed like I couldn't get up to speed for the second two, even accounting for the headwind on #3. Oh, well. On to the next run.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
RIP Milkman
Andres - I definitely do not think it was a long run issue. You were smashing those 20-21 mile long runs every single weekend. If anything, I think it was quality, so you're right on the mark. As the taper czar of this thread, I just went back and looked through your taper. I would have only made some slight tweaks, like not running any quality in that long run the week before and potentially just a slightly different steepness of the taper, but there really wasn't anything there. It was definitely something else, either your quality or you just had an off day. You had such a great cycle and your taper was good.
Honestly I wonder if it just has to do with racing for you. Your races right now are not lining up with your training. If I remember correctly, you had a poor 10K and a so/so half during this build up (at least based on what you thought you could do), yet you were smashing long runs and even your quality runs went well. Maybe you just need to race more? Some people are good with racing less frequently, some people need to race all the time to stay in tune with that.
Nimmals - would you mind writing a very short recap of the OSR race? I'm curious about the entire experience, would love to hear more!
Me - nothing to report, 73 miles all easy as I build back up to actually start Boston training for real.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Andres: Way to tough out the ending miles. I'll third the inquiry about the training and taper.
Dwave: Oops on the extended warmup! Congrats on 3rd AG!
Katia: Fired on maternity leave?! Ugh... Welcome back!
Brew: A much-delayed response, but this isn't so much horse country. Lots of corn and sugar beets. A few horses.
Won't single them all out, but a lot of good weeks posted. Mine was a significant recovery week before the last two "big weeks."
M: RestT: 4.25M @ 9:23W: 4.5M @ 8:36T: 8.5M w/10 x (2.5minutes @ HM effort, 2.5minutes easy)F: RestS: 12M @ 11:11 with 2138'/475' elevation gain/loss (cut short due to a blizzard and about 1.5 hours of "cross-training" (aka "digging out"))S: 10M @ 10:01 with 1108'/316' gain/loss
Total: 39.25M. Elevation gain/loss: 3456'/1001'
Swim - Do you use a canned plan, or more individualized training from Steve? Thus far I've been using Daniels/modified-Daniels-style program while switching workouts targets from pace to power, and usually switching distance for time duration. JT - Typically I use the TM to escape bad weather, though occasionally I'll use it to really nail execution (power targets) for a workout. About half of my usual 10 mile loop is on dirt/gravel roads that naturally get ruts when someone drives over them after a rain. I run in quite a rural area and even the road through town has no shoulder or sidewalk, so I do have to accommodate traffic and road conditions and the TM definitely helps. It took me a while before I was comfortable running workouts with a headlamp, but I've learned where most of the pot holes are in the paved roads and how to best avoid rough spots on the dirt roads. Andres - I'll echo DWave and say I'm quite interested in your training and taper as well. SC - Nice job picking up the win. Had a decent-ish tempo workout this morning. The first two intervals were just fine, but it seemed like I couldn't get up to speed for the second two, even accounting for the headwind on #3. Oh, well. On to the next run.
I work individually with him. Pace is pretty much insignificant. Just hit the target and the time will show up. I test every 6 weeks to see what kind of improvement there has been. Pretty simple
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
Mmmm Bop
Mikkey - what is the state of your "heel" fix?
I had my first shockwave therapy session on Friday and the heel has definitely improved. The PT is also a qualified Osteopath and experienced with sports injuries and seems to know his stuff. He’s given me a few additional strength exercises to work on along with what I’ve already been doing and figured that my left side is noticeably weaker than the right and needs correcting! The treatment wasn’t painful at all and lasted about 10min max. He also focused on the calf (trigger points) and thinks the pain/discomfort is from the tendon rather than the actual heel spur. I’ve got two more sessions booked (possibly more) and starting to feel a bit more hopeful! I’m going to jump into a Parkrun on Saturday and get an idea of how much speed I’ve lost...the pace will probably be my old MP.
Andres - That’s great that you’ve got Madrid lined up! I also forgot to ask if you did any strength training this cycle? I remember you racing well a few years back when you were hitting the gym.
SC - Congrats on the Parkrun win! And nice shoes.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Just to clarify - I was talking about the long run duration rather than “smashing them” every week. I know your a JD fanboy, but I always benefit from some easier LRs that are the duration of my goal time. (ie 2:50/3:00 runs). Andres has the speed, but he needs the endurance and strength to hold that pace for 26.2 miles. You are correct regarding his taper as that isn’t an issue. 👍
That's fair, but I think if you can run 21 miles at the quality he did, throwing in a couple of 23-24 milers wasn't going to make any difference. Worth experimenting though.
One question: Andres - is now the time for everyone to start pulling this apart and chiming in with their opinion? Or would it be more productive to give it some time to settle first?
I ask because I think there's a time and a place for discussions like this, and that time/place is determined by the runner. I've always thought that participating on a thread like this is implicitly soliciting advice - hence I'll hand out my opinion even though my normal practice is not to give advice unless asked. I don't think anyone participates on these threads just to give praise - that's what Instagram is for.
But I also think that it can get to the point where it feels unproductive and like a pile-on, especially in those first few days after a race. And that can be compounded by the fact that it's advice from behind a keyboard, based often on someone's own experience of n=1. I'm not sure if we're starting to hit that point here. (and yes, I've definitely been chiming in, so am guilty myself)
Well having met Andres a couple times I’m pretty sure that he’s not a snowflake who will get bent out of shape or think it’s a pile-on just because some of us have started analysing his marathon from the armchair.
Darkwave - I'm totally cool with the analysis, but thanks for asking. A lot of it so far has made a good amount of sense. Some of it less so. Monday morning I had to fly down to Mexico City, and I'm returning tomorrow. I've been a bit swamped the past couple of days, but have been trying to organize my thoughts in my head. I'll try to put something together soon, taking most of what's been pondered in to account., and see what you all think. And hopefully others will get some value out of this. You're absolutely right; I don't stick around here just to get praise or to get cheered up when things don't go as planned. Also, I always assume that most of the advice that is provided in these types of circumstances is not solely for the benefit of one individual. Other people can see what's thrown out there and ask whether that applies to themselves.
Upcoming races: Boston
What improvements? You need to fire your coach....start racing regularly and fulfill your potential.
Cal, do you second me on that?
Problem Child
I just think Andres needs to run CIM. The internet has established it's one of the easiest marathons. It has the benefit of a major downhill marathon without getting the flack for being a major downhill marathon. 06.December.2020. Be there or be a hater.
EDIT: CommanderKeen Glad we don't have to DOXX you. We all know YOUR results weren't faked. BMW Marathon Fibbers.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I haven't met him (our NYC try was a disaster) but based on online personality, I root super hard for him and want him to reach his potential, which is why I get into the after-the-fact analysis. Definitely not intending to pile on: I just want to see the guy smash a race because he's a great member here.