2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 700 times)

minmalS


Stotan Disciple

     

     

    Nimmals - would you mind writing a very short recap of the OSR race? I'm curious about the entire experience, would love to hear more!

     

    Me - nothing to report, 73 miles all easy as I build back up to actually start Boston training for real.

     

    JMAC the OSR1 Race was a one mile no checkpoint just a straight shot. It started on 7th Ave around 50th St.   With these races you don't always know the course its given to you moments before so you have to pay attention and attend a race briefing. The meeting place and time are usually given two days out.

    The setup was we met at a bar on 50th an 10th Ave.  Registration is online through Eventbrite. The fees for most  races are $50+. This race was $50. You go to As is, the bar and there is a registration table to pick up your number, bathrooms prerace drink if thats your thing. Just a really relaxed chilled place.  Joe walks around and introduce himself to the runners. I felt at ease right away.   There were bag checks, a few volunteers,  bathrooms and  just a cool vibe. When i got there I saw one of my teammates an older ultra conservative guy, great running friend of mine (but I had to block him on face book because of his politics he eventually took himself off he had become too toxic.) Politics aside we're buddies. So he kinda schooled me as it was my first OSR he has done most of their races.

    OSR puts on Tuesday night runs  that are free as well. Ive always wanted to do their events but because I live in the island it was hard to do without lack of sleep or using a vacation day. The mile was just the event to get me out.

     

    So we are briefed on road course, conditions, the start and what to expect. I thought it would involve a lot of stopping or recklessness but  the race was organized well.  I knew ahead we would see Times Square due to hints he drops on Instagram.

    At about 10 minutes to the start we leave the bar and head to the designated start. We pretty much are on a time clock so it starts exactly around 1:00 we line up and take off on a green light. we are running through cars and taxis parked trucks etc, during the briefing we are told to look out for each other so we call obstacles and the volunteers are on bikes they are about 6 of them and the operate like police out riders blocking intersections as we rip down Electric Avenue (Times Square).  I am sitting pretty watching the race unfold i help chase down breakaways and  try too early Model's 34 street to take the race the guy who led most after the half pulls up beside me and I'm like whoa. Not many people can run me down, he caught me with ease. The race was the most fun I've had they were some people cheering it was just an awesome race. I plan to do more and some Tuesday night runs.

    There is a video here:

    OSR1 Race

    Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

    CalBears


      What improvements?  You need to fire your coach....start racing regularly and fulfill your potential.

       

      Cal, do you second me on that?

       

      Wow... That escalated quickly  Actually, Swim had an improvement - he PR-d last year at CIM. Not sure what kind of improvement he is talking about re those measurements every 6 weeks.

       

      Mikkey, seriously - why should we be so impatient with Swim's progress, if he, himself is so really f&^%ing patient with it. Plus he is not a  paid pro to improve every year. Plus, he is getting older every year and hence getting slower - like you and me . Not to mention we already expressed our opinion so many times - Swim didn't agree. So, be it. We tried . We should close this case and never come back to it.

       

      I truly believe Swim really enjoys hard core training maybe even more than racing. If that's what he enjoys, so be it. It's not bad at all. I hope he will not disappear again just because two old farts are not happy with his progress over last 7 years  - but this is not pre-school - we should be able to express what we/I think honestly. And we still love Swim because of his hard core training  and because he is such a nice person.

      paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

      kramrunner


        *** Toledo 2020, Week 9 ***
        M     01/13        01 00 17       7.07 tm
        T      01/14        01 21 56       9.85
        W     01/15        01 25 58      11.1 tm w/ 2.5wu + 7x1@6:00 + 2cd, 0.5%                           +24min bike

                                                                    rec: <120s walk @3mph
        Th    01/16          -- -- --          URD ankle locked up... da fook
        F      01/17          -- -- --          URD left ankle still not right                                                   +25min bike
        S      01/18        00 31 36       3.23   fresh 6" snow - slow & tough.... ankle seemed ok!
        S      01/19        01 11 21        9.0    tm w/ 2>9mph, 0.5%, angry ankle after Sad
                                                      ====
                                                      40.25

         

        Messy week. Things started great, with a solid T session on Wednesday. Zero problem during that but later that day my left ankle started locking up and by next morning I was carrying a dead weight at the end of my leg. No idea what happened, but tendons on both sides and all the muscles seemed to be giving me the collective finger for some reason, kinda acting like I rolled it, but I didn't. A couple of days of message and icing appears to have got things back in order. Appears to be a peroneal issue or at least that what's sore now. I was really pissed/down at this over the weekend, but have come to my senses and gotten to extra stretches etc,. and seem to be making progress. Had an easy 7 on tm this morn and while ankle was a little sore, it went ok. So a steady diet of easy miles for a few weeks for me, I hope.


        Andres: Tough break. My 2 cents. It seems like you may have only just went out too fast, a few seconds slower, i.e., nothing under 6:20 and you may have held on. Also, from reading DWs RR there was a bit of a wind and it was a little chillier than usual. I had a complete shut down of my body at philly a few yrs back when race morning hit me like that. Finally, I'd agree with others on the value of some long race time slow runs. Having that mental memory of running this long and if fasted some of the feelings will be similar. This can help during those hard miles. Anyway, regardless of how it went, you did put in a really good cycle and as long as you don't let your fitness go, it'll be something real solid to build on next time out. Personally, I wouldn't stress over another, work on a spring half and wait to get after NYC, but only you can judge how deep into the well you dove.

         

        DW: Thanks for the RR, solid run on limited fitness. Got to sharpen up those elbows though.

         

        Nimmals: That looks borderline legal. I'm really surprised NY.gov is not chasing you lot.

         

        Mikey: Good luck with the physio, borderline charlatans the majority of them

        5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17)  -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)

        2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40!         Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)

        Mikkey


        Mmmm Bop

           

          Wow... That escalated quickly  Actually, Swim had an improvement - he PR-d last year at CIM. Not sure what kind of improvement he is talking about re those measurements every 6 weeks.

           

          Mikkey, seriously - why should we be so impatient with Swim's progress, if he, himself is so really f&^%ing patient with it. Plus he is not a  paid pro to improve every year. Plus, he is getting older every year and hence getting slower - like you and me . Not to mention we already expressed our opinion so many times - Swim didn't agree. So, be it. We tried . We should close this case and never come back to it.

           

          I truly believe Swim really enjoys hard core training maybe even more than racing. If that's what he enjoys, so be it. It's not bad at all. I hope he will not disappear again just because two old farts are not happy with his progress over last 7 years  - but this is not pre-school - we should be able to express what we/I think honestly. And we still love Swim because of his hard core training  and because he is such a nice person.

           

          CASE CLOSED! 

          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            https://patch.com/pennsylvania/lansdale/mike-rossi-accused-marathon-cheater-arrested-upper-gwynedd

             

            How was this not mentioned two weeks ago? I figured this guy would have run away from the cops. 

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 53.37 

            5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

            CalBears


              https://patch.com/pennsylvania/lansdale/mike-rossi-accused-marathon-cheater-arrested-upper-gwynedd

               

              How was this not mentioned two weeks ago? I figured this guy would have run away from the cops. 

               

              Why on earth any intelligent person would spend their precious life time fidgeting over TMZ-quality stuff??? 

              paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

              Running Problem


              Problem Child

                Did you jut label me intelligent?

                did you just  label me as having a life?

                 

                im not sure what the proper response should be. Millennial or marathoner.

                It came up in a conversation today.

                 

                Why on earth any intelligent person would spend their precious life time fidgeting over TMZ-quality stuff??? 

                Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                VDOT 53.37 

                5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                  https://patch.com/pennsylvania/lansdale/mike-rossi-accused-marathon-cheater-arrested-upper-gwynedd

                   

                  How was this not mentioned two weeks ago? I figured this guy would have run away from the cops

                   

                  Maybe he retired from running and took up boxing?

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


                  Resident Historian

                    Hit my planned 25 miles last week despite a tweaked back (from working on a home project). Had to cut two runs very short. On to 30 this week, I hope.

                    Andres, Well done on sub-3; as others have meentioned, it's not easy to pull back from a really bad patch! I've had a couple of marathons like that -- on pace for what I thought was a reasonable goal, but going from feeling good at 20-22 to walking in the next mile, followed by trying to hold on. One time I never did identify the cause -- just chalked it up to a bad day. The other I concluded that my training was lacking in specific ways, and changed it. Take your time and see if you can figure it out.


                    Marky Mark, nice win! Where are you headed in BC? (I've done a lot of skiing there)

                    Keen - Excellent mileage.

                    Neil

                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

                    minmalS


                    Stotan Disciple

                      Never let a race define you!!!

                      Never let a race define you!!!

                      Never let a race define you!!!

                       

                      The danger in running mostly marathons is in letting your ego become a factor, allowing it to define who you are as a runner by how you finish or by what your time is.

                       

                      I will say this everyday if I have to, its not inspirational. It's common sense. I preach mental toughness and self reliance but I also have common sense. Some days you don't have it. Stress is stress and it diminishes our output. The body only knows stress, its not categorized by type you may know the difference but your body doesn't.  So never let a race define you. I coached an Autistic runner and I remember being disappointed at his Boston I knew he was in great shape but on that day he just was trying too hard it was the worse conditions,  we decided to pull back, while most of the pros decided to drop out.  The kid however just kept fighting and he wore himself out. I knew what his whole training cycle entailed. I knew in better conditions or if the marathon was a week later or earlier he'd have run a sub 2:45. instead of 2:56. Disappointed with the day, I knew the results didn't define his fitness or his training cycle. So I talked his parents into giving him 4-5 days off and I would get him ready for a fast half. 2-3 weeks later? I had him do a half and he ran a 1:16:30 with the last 3 miles at 5:45, 5:38, 5:33??  I knew he was FAF and I didn't let one race define him. We all know the marathon is hard and all of 18 weeks go into one day if you think your marathon or your training cycle has to be decided on one day then I'm sorry but you're a FI...

                       

                      Swim before you there was Thomas the guy from NJ who trained hardest on RWOL forum and did those sick gazillion pull-ups crunches all that important but overdoing it stuff. He never did see his potential. I know I'm irascible and contentious so no one pays attention to what I say. If some of you put more thought into your training, you will see the improvements. Why do some people succeed more than others. I watch our comments and they're only a few thinking runners on this board the majority of you throw shit on a wall and hope it sticks. (forgive me I'm opinionated)  Don't be insulted instead really ponder what I'm saying, even if you don't understand it.

                       

                      I always encourage my athletes to do shorter races. I ran for 5 and a half years before I ever did a marathon and I won my first marathon and they first thing I uttered to my GF was this is the stupidest thing I have ever done. 

                       

                      • I still think they're the stupidest races. (IMHO)
                      • The historical figure behind the marathon origin died after, poor Pheidippides...
                      • I think ultra runners are dumb numb unfulfilled people that's my opinion.  (IMHO)
                      • When I meet most ultra runners on long island I'm unimpressed I see a fool who has lost their way and is trying to use races to define themselves. (IMHO)
                      • I'm like "you can't even run a good 5k??  Why do you want to run a 100 miles?" (IMHO)
                      • My training week has more mileage than yours and I'd never race 50 miles. (IMHO)
                      • We are a half assed culture and tolerate half assed results. (IMHO)

                      Whenever  I state my opinions everyone goes into attack mode is that because it hits home? If it doesn't speak to you or what you do why be offended? My idea is not to offend but to provoke thought if we put the same effort of thought into running as we do in our careers and education you will see incremental success.

                       

                      “We make of ourselves what we may make .

                      . . the solution . . . to our problems lies within us . . .

                      the rewards are in direct proportion as we are prepared

                      to learn: to think: to act”  Cerutty 1967

                      Thinking should be done first, before training begins.


                      Speed Surplus

                        Nimmals, that's quite a post. A lot of good takeaways there, and I do think the fixation on marathons and ultras can be myopic - shorter races are great! But being on the wrong side of 40 with a number of semi chronic injuries, I also understand why some folks back away from the speedier stuff. I can only run hard and fast every so often these days, so I try to make it count.

                         

                        Completely unrelated... I got into Tunnel! They said last year's race sold out in 1:20 (or about the length of a fairly speedy half marathon), but it sounds like there are a "few" spots left for the June race still available. Unfortunately, this means I'll have to run a marathon this year. I am weirdly on track for running one marathon every two years going back to 2012. If I run sub-3 (or even in the 3:05 range) I'll end up messing that up by running Bratislava 2021.

                        5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12

                        DeadRunner


                          Hi All,

                           

                          Just joined RunningAhead, found it when looking for a way to matchup my training plan with my workouts. Love it so far. 


                          I am training for second marathon (NJ Marathon on April 26) using the Hansons marathon plan. In the early weeks now so only 25 mile weeks right now, picks up next week. Ran a 4:01 pace last year, goal was 3:50. I made lot of mistakes (didn't fuel well enough, came out too fast) and also had an injury (peroneal tendonitis) in the heart of training that made me miss 2 weeks of training.

                           

                          This year I feel really good and am ready to learn from my mistakes, I think I am going to target a faster pace since I know I can be faster. Thinking about targeting an 8:25 pace which is about a 3 hr 40 min time, but hard to gauge if it is too aggressive. Here are some of my PRs:

                           

                          1 MI - 6:03 min

                          5K - 23:02 min (need to work on this after training)

                          Half - 1hr 42 min

                          Full - 4hr 1 min

                           

                          Based on my half and mile times and also based on the fact that I know I can learn from my mistakes I don't think 3hr 40 is too unreasonable of a target for marathon. I am even wondering if I should try a faster pace.


                          kramrunner: Good luck with that ankle, sucks having an injury in the middle of training. When I got injured I just made sure to give it extra rest, it is hard not to run but worth it for race day to have healthy ankle.

                          I know I'm faster.

                          Mile 6:03, HM: 1:50:56, M: 4:01:54

                          Next Race: NJ Marathon 4/26, Goal: 3:39:00

                          wolvmar


                          UM 45 Ohio 23

                            Thinking about targeting an 8:25 pace which is about a 3 hr 40 min time, but hard to gauge if it is too aggressive.

                             

                            I don't have the marathon experience others on this thread have, but I do run near your pace so, for what it's worth, based on your PRs, I think 3:40 is a reasonable target.  I can't see your log but, with 3 months to train, and being at 25 miles a week now, you should have enough time. Also, if you've been consistently running ~25 miles a week for a while, you should be able to ramp your miles fairly quickly and without over doing it. Good luck!

                            minmalS


                            Stotan Disciple

                              Hi All,

                               

                              Just joined RunningAhead, found it when looking for a way to matchup my training plan with my workouts. Love it so far. 
                              .
                               

                              How many 5Ks & 10Ks have you run?  "Leave until after.."  So why not use a 5K/10k as a gauge leading up to April 26??

                              Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                Nimmals,But being on the wrong side of 40 with a number of semi chronic injuries, I also understand why some folks back away from the speedier stuff. I can only run hard and fast every so often these days, so I try to make it count.

                                 

                                I think it's a balancing act.  As someone who is also on the wrong side of 40 and very injury prone, I've found that faster running, used judiciously, is what keeps me healthy.  You need to keep maintaining power, strength, and range of motion if you want to stay healthy - running tons of miles slowly doesn't get that done.    That's why I do drills and strides nearly every day that I run - it's healthier to do so.  With disuse comes injury.

                                 

                                The trick, of course, is not to OVERDO it (while doing it consistently).  And the older you get, the less margin of error you have.

                                 

                                Deadrunner - welcome.

                                 

                                Mikkey - (belated comment) - very interesting abut the Shockwave therapy and being able to run.  I had heard that practices in my area required time in a boot when doing Shockwave, but that was a few years ago.  [this is not meant as a criticism of your current practitioner, but rather an observation on how different medical providers have different protocols].  I'm glad it seems to be working!

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.