2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 700 times)

Although some hobby joggers are a lot faster than others.

 

Most ultra-runners I know run because it brings them joy.

 

Most faster Mile to Marathon runners I know run because of their ego ... it brings them praise.  When these runners no longer are getting praise or glory they quit running.  They seem to run for others approval.

 

Just my opinion

I must have really hit a nerve with you, 3+ post.  Do not suppress that opinion, Please let it all out buddy less you become an ultra runner too.

Are you looking for praise and approval from the others for your opinions.

BTW - I am just bored and having fun.

I love the challenge of getting the most out of my body.  I enjoy that process of pain and discovery a race can bring.  I have never known how to run a mile or 5k well ... At the end of a 5k I have no joy - Not because how I finished, but because I know I did not come close to reaching my potential.  I have never tapered for a 5k to 1/2 Marathon.  They seem like golfing 1-9 holes ... not enough time to really get the whole experience and challenge.  I ran my 1/2 PR at the end of 190 mile week.

I do think the mile is a fascinating race - Just not for me.  My favorite HS race is the 1600 (They do not run the mile) with the 800 a close second.

I understand you are just having fun insulting ultra-runners.  Actually having fun insulting anyone that is not you.

 

I understand you are just having fun insulting ultra-runners.  Actually having fun insulting anyone that is not you.

That's it buddy let it all out. It's going to be okay... do not suppress it. I'm sure Cal's loving this. Him and I know how unfulfilled you feel.

Do what you need to feel fulfillment.  I get it.... you're an ultra runner so you have to go on and on and on. I'm here for you buddy let it all out.

I promise you can have the last word. I'm going to be a good therapist and just listen.

 This is absolutely a hobby of mine. I’m a lot more proud of many other things I have going on in my life so even if I nitpick at this result, it’s not going to bring me down. And even in running, I know that I will always be better at the half as compared to the marathon. That’s just not going to change. I plan to keep doing marathons, but I love the half so much more. I also think it’s much easier for me (comparatively, obviously).

 

Conclusion

 

Ultimately, I think what happened was I was just slightly off on my pace. I should have probably had a 6:35 goal. Cal has often said that running a marathon isn’t overly complicated. You run a good race, then you try to improve your training a little, and improve your time a little. I tried to make a big jump. I should have run a good and comfortable low 2:50s and see what happened from there.

This is how stuff gets lost in translation Andres said its a hobby but some can't read troll will try to make their opinion\misunderstanding and stupidly attempt to attribute hobby jogger  to me. Without even properly following the thread.  Man if that what what you need to have a little excitement in your life it really explains a lot about why you do what you do.  Remember reading and comprehension a class we took in elementary school.

 

1) harking back to an earlier discussion - where someone noted that your races didn't match your workouts.  I've seen that one pop up many times before.  And the answer has always been to slow down the workouts to match the current race times, rather than stick doggedly with those workouts and hope the races will match.  You can train slower than you want to race, and it really won't hold you back much, if at all.

 

2) nine runs in 19-21 range seems like too many to me - I"m not sure what you got from those last 4 or 5 of those runs, other than fatigue.

 

3) I understand that you had long runs that you felt fantastic on, but then race day didn't match up.  In my experience, that goes to the taper (I know we all disagree on how important taper is).    If you feel great on your long runs, and then don't have it on race day, the answer sometimes is to make the week before your marathon look more like the week before your best long run.

 

I really appreciate you, and others, for taking the time to read and comment. It's interesting that you and I arrive to the same conclusion, yet with kind of an opposite path. For one, if I was forced to guess, I would assume I didn't run enough quality, or that I didn't push hard enough in my quality. I know it wasn't that clear in what I wrote regarding "T", so let me try to clear one point up. JMac said go with 6:10, and I thought "sounds good to me." But the reality was that I had just run a half at 6:12 pace (with a hard fade at the end). And in that half, I felt great coming through mile 10 at just under 61 minutes. I have zero doubts that if it was a 10 mile race I would have done less than 6 flat pace. And so I kinda locked in on roughly what 6:10 felt like, and kept my workouts at that relative effort. A few, not many though, miles were closer to 6 flat after several weeks. That effort was different than what the 6:10 effort was earlier. So I had to increase the effort to get there. I honestly thought I had been training at slightly slower than T the whole time, and like you point out, didn't think that was all that big a deal. And overall, the total weekly T miles were quite low in my weeks, much lower than I had been used to in other cycles.

With regards to the long runs, and to comment on what JT said, I would be surprised if running too many or running them too fast would be the issue. Could be though. In general, I've always hated long runs. The first few were no different than every long run in a marathon cycle I've ever had. Yet the last four were better than in any other cycle. At first, after a long run I'd go to the park with my kids to play soccer. I could barely kick the ball and my legs would just be stiff. The next day or two I'd really need a short easy run. But by the end, they felt like they took almost nothing out of me. I'd happily play soccer with the kids running all around, and easily run a normal easy run the next day without feeling much. And the long runs were hard, but nothing crazy. I've seen waaaay crazier long runs on these boards over the years. With huge T and M and then T to the 10th type stuff. These were all quite mild in comparison, although faster than easy.

But overall, this was my biggest week, 5 weeks out. I struggle to see how I did too much quality. Seems somewhat mild:

Mon 8.2 @ 8:15

Tue 10.3 @7:48

Wed 6 @ 7:59

Thu 15 with 10 easy then 6:10, 6:10, 5:58, then 2 easy

Fri 6 @ 8:24

Sat 21.2 @ 7:16

Sun 6 @ 8:06

My other weeks were also quite similar.

I will be the first to admit that I don't have the answer. But if I'm trying to think how to do things better for the next cycle, I would be very hesitant to think "take it easier next go around." But who knows, maybe that's what I need.

Don't step into MY thread and tell me, or my imaginary online friends how to act. If you want to come here and tell me how humble ultra runners are then tell me how other runners do it to show off to other people you're doing a horrible job of it. Please do not tell me why I run or even try to understand it. For all you know it's because I have an eating problem and body image issues I don't want to admit to having because words like "bulimia" and "aneroxia" aren't pretty while running is viewed as a "healthy lifestyle choice" so I'm allowed to eat an entire box of Mega Stuffed Oreos with milk every single night or a pint of ice cream to myself. fuck outta here with your bullshit about how Ultra runners are better. Pretty self centered to tell me how running brings YOU joy but I'm out here to look good for other people. Take a training run and find a ditch to fall into so someone can come help you. You want to compare a 30 minute race to a 30 hour race and say "well WE help each other out and you just leave people on the side of the road." fuck off. ultra runners will enter Western States injured and knowing they won't finish the race thereby BLOCKING someone who COULD finish the race from even competing because they're such self absorbed assholes. Hardrock is so biased to runners in the race there isn't really a point trying to get in because they make it obvious they don't want anyone new coming to enjoy their race. The disgust you're reading has NOTHING to do with me being a road runner. It has everything to do with you being a complete dick head and me being blunt about not giving a fuck about your opinion because when you point one finger you have three pointing back at you.

 

Opinions are like farts. We all have them. They all stink. Feel free to fuck RIGHT the fuck off back to wherever the fuck it is you came from and drown your sorrows into your favorite light American lager.

Brew, I love you buddy, but it's hard to understand letting Slammin totally get a pass when he says crazy ass shit just to stir up the pot, then get upset when some new guy comes here and does the same thing but on the exact opposite end of the spectrum.

We need more crazy in here; not less. Let's not discourage DoppleBock.

Andres - sorry I haven't commented on your RR yet, haven't had the time to fully digest all of the discussion. I don't think you ran your workouts too hard as you said. I specifically said 6:10 because I thought it was off of a half you "bonked" in, meaning it was going to be a conservative number. So you're right on the money with it not being too difficult for you. It's really hard, you looked like you did everything well and this is definitely a case of there's something unique about you that you need to figure out training-wise, which it seems like you're doing.

If you feel like you succeed at the half much more, I would definitely lean on that experience to determine what works. Your taper looks fine to me, but maybe you need a vastly different one than what is "normal." I always think shorter races are where you can experiment more with tapers. Maybe you need the opposite of what you think: I know DW talks about how she needs a full 3 week taper. Maybe you're the same, where you do something like 80% in week 3. Or maybe you need even less taper.

The long run is definitely something to consider. You were doing them a lot and replacing them with quality may have made a difference. Look, I know I'm a sample of one, but I only do 3 long runs (21+) per marathon cycle and I've had zero issues with bonking in marathons. The vast majority of my runs are 16-18 with quality. Maybe I just happened to luck into the right style for myself when I went with Daniels 4 years ago. But I think my point is don't be afraid to experiment there.

On nutrition - I'm in the same boat as you. EVERY SINGLE RACE I have stitches. EVERY SINGLE RACE I get nauseous enough where I wonder if I'm going to vomit. But you have to find a way to get more gels down. Nimmals got me on this, and he was dead right: I've increased my gel consumption and I've noticed a difference after each gel I take. It just takes a lot of practice: I make sure to practice with my gels and water a bunch of times during the cycle, even if it ends up costing me more money. The one thing I do make sure to do is not run my 22 mile long runs with any nutrition to make sure that I learn on depleted carbs.

You've got a great attitude and I really love when you post here. Please continue to do so, even if you stick with shorter races. You can always join us over on sub 1:30 if you want!

Brew, I love you buddy, but it's hard to understand letting Slammin totally get a pass when he says crazy ass shit just to stir up the pot, then get upset when some new guy comes here and does the same thing but on the exact opposite end of the spectrum.

 

We need more crazy in here; not less. Let's not discourage DoppleBock.

Yo, I realize this is beside the point but DoppleBock is not a new guy here.

I also endorse more crazy.

(DB's got a World Championships Bronze Medal in the sport of ultra hobbyjogging, fwiw.)