2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 700 times)

I just don't think that's what's happening here though--I don't think anyone (credibly) is picking one or two examples and saying that the Vaporfly's are a game changer. There appears to be tons of data to back up the fact that they are far ahead of all other marathon shoes currently on the market, for elites down to hobby joggers. I'm struggling to see how you can make an argument that they are not a game changer. I'd bet a lot of money that all else being equal, a runner in VF beats the theoretically equal runner wearing ANY other shoe in a marathon. Every time. Saying all that, I think they're totally fair. In my mind, they seem to have met the rules in the past, and they clearly meet the new rules. Hopefully other companies catch up.

It's interesting, because I think a lot of what we are arguing about is degrees.  Not whether it's a very good shoe, but whether it is too much a better shoe than anything else.  I don't see the gap as large as others do.

To be clear, I don't disagree that the VF is a very good shoe.  I don't disagree that it is the best marathoning shoe on the market, and that the Next% is arguably the best shoe at any distance (that's why I wear them when I race).  What I do disagree with is that it's a huge, insurmountable advantage, and that everytime someone wins something in the shoe, it's evidence of said insurmountable advantage.    And I don't think we were at some utopian "all shoes are equal" point before this.

I think that if you removed the VF from the equation, I'd argue that I'd run faster in the Adios than I would in any other shoe.  And I think that would hold true for pretty much anyone my size, who could handle the Adios over 26 miles.  One difference in the VF, of course, is that it's combination of lightness and cushion makes it accessible to a larger # of runners.  You have to be on the smaller side to be able to reap the benefits of the Adios Boost over 26 miles; but most people can get away with the VF.

 

If you had to guess, what percent of non-sponsored runners at the trials will be wearing VFs?

Probably 70%.  I know some people who prefer the Carbon Rocket to the VF.   Of the DC area runners I know going to the trials, I'd say 3/4ths wear the VF.

A coach posted on LetsRun that he had 4 women going to the trials - of them, he said one would be wearing the VF, and three would be using the new Brooks Hyperion shoe.

I think there will be a lot of VFs at the trials.  I do not expect them to be the universal choice of those without a shoe contract.

Those around here that know me for a while probably see right through my real issues with VF.  I just missed sub3 a few years ago and have lived with a pebble in my shoe ever since.  This new technology gets the bitter bile refluxing in the back of my throat again.

 

I need to shut up and get some professional help.       "...  so tell me Rovatti., what kind of shoes did your mother wear?"

I ran my PR on a hilly course with trainers.  Imagine what I could have done on a CIM-level course with the shoes.  2:58?  2:57!

 

Cal - I've worn the Adios 4's for 90% of my mileage the past 4 months or so. They're great. Fast stuff, slow stuff, long, short. I highly recommend them. But the VF's are in a totally different league. They're super fast, but can be awkward for anything not racing. I also don't find them to be all that comfortable. I'd give them a shot. You and Mikkey, when it comes closer to, need to set down some rules on what shoe is or isn't allowed.

I’m sure I’ll be asked to wear a 10kg weighted vest. 

Those around here that know me for a while probably see right through my real issues with VF.  I just missed sub3 a few years ago and have lived with a pebble in my shoe ever since.  This new technology gets the bitter bile refluxing in the back of my throat again.

 

I need to shut up and get some professional help.       "...  so tell me Rovatti., what kind of shoes did your mother wear?"

There is some extra pride that comes with beating people in $250 shoes when you're wearing the $100 clearance ones.

There is also small amounts of satisfaction to say "oh I TOTALLY ran in the cheap version of the carbon fiber shoe" and add * to your PRs.

I bet your mama wears combat boots.

 

There is some extra pride that comes with beating people in $250 shoes when you're wearing the $100 clearance ones.

There is also small amounts of satisfaction to say "oh I TOTALLY ran in the cheap version of the carbon fiber shoe" and add * to your PRs.

 

I bet your mama wears combat boots.

Eek.  I think $100 shoes are way overpriced.  Of course I can remember the time when everybody knew someone who wore $8 K-Mart shoes and crushed.

I can't sleep anymore.   Someone send me to Bellevue.  Nike patent

 

Eek.  I think $100 shoes are way overpriced.  Of course I can remember the time when everybody knew someone who wore $8 K-Mart shoes and crushed.

I think flying across the country to run a marathon and buy a thin running jacket for $100+ is way over priced and I've been trying to do it for 4+ years because I said I could quit running when I run Boston. Pretty expensive way to quit a hobby, don't you think? I'm not the best person to take advice from and I'm glad my wife married me because I made her laugh because she obviously didn't marry for brains.

Keen You get VF 4% shoes on clearance and you better buy lottery tickets because it was your lucky day. *This does not apply if you wear a shoe size 11 or larger as those are always available on clearance for years. No one that big runs.