2020 Marathon Training Thread (Read 338 times)

weatherboy80


    I'm not sure I can keep up with this thread anymore.  Good job everyone!

     

    JT: so glad to see you really back at full training again!

     

    JMac: Kudos on what looked to be an excellent rust buster.  Don't think you've lost  as much as you thought!

     

    DW:  Agree with JT as you look to be in PR shape!


    Nimmals: thanks for your posts.  I'm learning quite a bit from you over the past 6 months or so.  Really like how EZ you keep alot of run slow steady runs and easy days.  Much to be learned from that!

     

    Andres: congrats on a well executed HM this weekend.  Looked pretty warm from what I can tell.  And yes that warmth has spread over FL yet again.  This morning was about 70 degrees along the beach before sunrise Sad

     

    Got back up to just shy of 90 miles last miles week which is the highest I've had since before the Jacksonville full last month.  Really pretty pleased with my 3 X 2 tempo workout after an 8 mile honest warmup on Saturday.  Other workout of note was pacing my buddy on his Daniels style workout of 8M + 3T where we dipped into the high 5 pace range on the last few miles.  For me this was a challenge since I ran a HM EZ run the day prior so lots of volume in the legs.  Thinking of jumping into a local 10K this upcoming Sunday, but the odds of a PR attempt look quite low as we will be quite warm and it will include 2 bridge climbs in the last half.  Figure this will also be a good rust buster with my half about 2 weeks away.

     

    Monday: 13.2 EZ

    Tuesday: Pacing a LR/workout 16.3 miles total ( 8@6:35 w/ last 3 @6:00 pace)

    Wednesday: 10.5 EZ (AM); 5.2 EZ (PM)

    Thursday: 10.20 on hills EZ

    Friday: 6.2 EZ + strides

    Saturday: 8E + 3X2T (@~5::3x pace) + 4.5E

    Sunday: 8.10 EZ

    Total: 88.2 miles

    5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 34:30 (11/19)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

    macey.runner


      Hi everyone,

       

      Recently found this forum and have found it to be extremely helpful. The knowledge and experience you have is fantastic and enthusiasm I have gained from your posts have been immense - thank you!

       

      My running goal is to go sub 3 hours for the Marathon in Vienna on April 19. I ran a 3.05 last March in Limassol but really struggled the last 6 km of that race running it in just under 34 minutes.

       

      I am just looking for a little advice please:

       

      I have a friend who has asked me to pace them to a 3.30 marathon in Palestine this is 22 days before my goal race in Vienna. Could I do this as my last long run or is it too far?

       

      I also have a 10 km race 9 days before. Can I run flat out and still fully recover?

       

      Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

       

      Cheers,

       

      Kev

      Brewing Runner


      3:56 marathoner at heart

        Dwave When you said "friday was a comic" I imagined you put a protective sleeve around it, and filed it on a shelf to preserve it forever. Oh and "grinder" has a third definition. It is a dating site for men equivalent to the one with a name similar to dry flammable material such as wood or paper. It might come up in an online search for people sometimes.

         

        Jmac I'm always impressed when "celebrities" in running act like such normal people. I would have crossed paths with Jim W. on a lunch run one day and found out after since I didn't go running. I've also tagged him on Strava to ask for some beer spots and he has replied. I haven't had the same success with Jimmy Johnons.

         

        Shoe Sales I bought some New Balance Summit Unknowns for about $80. I've never run in those Saucony and I'm not sure I've EVER run in a Saucony. I DID see the Nike substitute for the vaporfly was on sale. Not sure I want to buy those, or the Next percents for my upcoming half. I still want to hold off on doing absolutely everything possible to help myself for some reason.

         

        Cyberic I feel you on the "no workout options" even WITH an indoor track. I'm always impressed how much more "hardcore" runners in the North seem to be compared to me. My "Bad day of running" is your Monday - Saturday with an option for Sunday too.

         

        nimmals What 50K and when is the date? I know Keen is running a 50k soon. Also, Goose Island is owned by Budweiser so I get a kick out of imagining all their beers in Budweiser cans. If ANYONE coudl get you some Clover or Samuel, from Hill Farmstead Brewery (I believe it's local distrubtion only, or at the brewery) you'd probably like it. If you're ever in Santa Cruz, CA check out Saint Adarius Rustic Ales.

         

        Macey Welcome. As someone who recently ran sub 3 I can tell you I would NOT have paced a friend to a 3:30 just three weeks before a marathon. I did a fair amount of running near 8:00/mi and if I WANTED to pace them I might only do the second half. I don't think I'd want to run 20 miles at an 8:00/mi pace three weeks before a race ESPECIALLY in a race where someone could get in my way. As for the 10k I'd say go for it. Last tune up run to feel good. Others might say not to do it.

         

        My week:

        42 miles.

        one 8x200m workout. Second set of 200s felt easier to control. All GPs based and all about 39-40 seconds with a 41 second recovery. Definately felt weird to run so fast and not feel destroyed. I would have expected Anaerobic running to hurt more. As I said in the 90 minute race thread I'm not really focused on races, and I have one in March (5k) and my goal race in early April. Is it true you need to run half as much for a half marathon compared to a marathon?

        1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

        5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

        10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

        Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

        Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

        Annual Miles 2,121 miles

        *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

         

        2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

          Otter1, come on no need to apologize, we talk about every and anything. I had no idea who he was but I wanted to go over the studies so I just read them and other similar ones. He is right about walking efficiency when load bearing and it makes sense. But walking is a front of body movement. Whereas running is power and force created under the body as you stated not ahead of it. And you do want to fly as it allows for shorter power lever that's why I even played around with it on the track doing two workouts to see if it made a difference. He doesn't go into the running per se only what to do prior. So I'm still curious , No matter i can reach out to him if I have more questions so its not a sideshow.

           

          As for Purrier yes, she was amazing Lipari introduced me to her at the 5th Avenue mile and I had seen here races in college when she won the mile then lost the 1500m outdoors. She was from my old athletic conference America East so I root for the few athletes that make it main stream. Haha actually there was Vin Baker and Malik Rose now Purrier lol so its a short list and I remember them all and Eric Nedeau too he was good but not main stream.

           

          She has a kick like Shelby, I can't wait to see those two go at it over 3000M. I think we can have a new AR there too. All Shalane's records may fall and Slaney's 2000M. Over the summer I saw  a German get a world record in some obscure distance 2000M steeple we should do that too its good for the sport. Gets us excited at least I for one.  JT a few others and I always discuss track and field in here so no worries. Saturday was a great day for track & Field Duplantis WR and Sandi Morris Opening height. Just crazy.

          Yes, maybe we can get a discussion going again on the thread you started in general running, but once the dust clears a little.  Yeah, if he could actually engage in a civil discussion it might actually get interesting. Sadly, I don't think he is capable.  There is a great value in studying the movement of animals.  I know you're a fan considering that was a passion for Cerruty and Lydiard as well.

           

          Every now and then I get itch to run again so I can imagine myself someday posting in here again as an athlete.  I ran out of goals but I have one on the backburner.  I have run a sub 3 marathon in four decades of my life (10's, 20's, 30's, & 40's) and in a little less then two years I turn 50 so maybe I will go another round.  I'll let you guys inspire that!

          IAAF Level 5 / USATF Level 3 Coach (Endurance)

          IAAF Level 5 / USATF Level 3 Coach (Sprints & Hurdles) 

          USTFCCCA Strength & Conditioning Certification

          USATF Cross Country Specialist Coaching Certification

          OMR


             

            OMR- race is coming soon...how are you feeling in the taper?

             

             

            dps:  I feel as ready as I can be.  I've been using this cycle to try a couple of things, so I'm curious to see how it goes.

             10/4:  Twin Cities Marathon

            CommanderKeen


            Aspiring Hobby Jogger

              Cyberic - Nice week, but forgetting the Stryd??? NOOoooooo......


              Cal - Good week, and nice vert on the LR.


              JT - Good that you're holding things together with the bump in mileage.

               

              Slammin - A 50k on March 1 that has a BQ marathon component? You aren't going to Texas, by chance, are you? Chasing a record, by chance?


              OMR - Getting close to race time! Looking forward to seeing that.


              Weather - Good week, especially that 8E, 3x2T.


              Kev - Welcome! For me 10 days out would be a better time for the 10k, but I'd think it would work well for a last big workout.


              80 for me last week, which will be my biggest week of this (shortened) cycle. One workout on the treadmill (icy roads) and my best LR in a long time (even with my previous two being really good). Volume hasn't been as high as last summer/fall, but I think my LRs have been better, so here's hoping that all counts for something.

              5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

               

              Upcoming Races:

              Vacavillage - 3/1

              dpschumacher


              Making a comeback

                Has anyone Bismark Marathon? Thinking of it as a back up if I miss Grandma's and still want to be in the BQ window for 2021.

                2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                2020 Goals:

                5k:16:30

                HM: 1:18:00

                Marathon: 2:45:00

                Next Race: 3/14/2020 O'Gara's 8k

                Nimmals


                Stotan Disciple

                  Otter1 for sure on catching up. I will also be 50 YO in a few short years and I think that's an amazing legacy you have going.

                  You certainly know how to get yourself back there. While I am happy to entertain and inspire you know in the end its discipline. So stop putting off the date join us officially and just slowly get back into it. I would love to see your training and pick your brains. I had a 52 YO friend go sub 3 who is also a coach but he wanted someone to hold him accountable and we did it together so. I'm here when you're ready to make the step.

                   

                  Keen & Brew No I will be doing the US 50K National Championship. On March 1st. Me running in Texas?? Sorry I'd either melt or be shot. So I avoid places like that (too hot to handle).

                   

                  Weather thank you, trying to get faster as I get older, a losing battle but I welcome the challenge of conditioning my Mind and Body as it ages.

                  Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                  Brewing Runner


                  3:56 marathoner at heart

                     

                    Keen & Brew No I will be doing the US 50K National Championship.

                    Marathon as part of a 50k.

                    See the source image

                     

                    EDIT: What is the goal? Moose mug?

                    1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                    5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                    10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                    Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                    Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                    Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                    *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                     

                    2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                    JMac11


                    Taper Czar

                      Madison - thank you for your kind words! Glad to see you back at it, hopefully you can keep the injuries away and go get that new PR.

                       

                      Cal - I'm surprised you haven't done trails before given you've run ultras before! I thought that was a must.

                       

                      JT - you gonna jump into a race anytime soon to test your fitness? Feel like you could use a rust buster like I just had.

                       

                      Weather - this was the weekend I was supposed to come down to Florida but my wife's trip got cancelled. Sounds like I made the right decision to stay up here with your weather!

                       

                      Otter - that's an awesome running history, please stick around!

                       

                      Me - ended up 2nd OA in my race with a time of 40:25, for an overall pace of 5:41. I was expecting around 5:45 pace given my recent workouts. It wasn't a PR at the 10K distance, so I'm not counting it as one. However, it did exactly what I wanted: it really helped me remember racing. I felt really good at mile 1, bad at mile 2, and then horrible at mile 3. That's when the bad thoughts started creeping in regarding "how am I ever going to finish this race without walking?" I seriously thought about a comment DW made over in 1:30 about asking questions and answering them appropriately during races, and it really motivated me! It was a really rough patch at that point, as I was completely by myself in third place, and the guy in 2nd was a good 20-30 seconds ahead of me. Just thought about easing the effort on down a bit so that the pain would stop, but I just kept telling myself to keep the legs going, keep the legs going. I ended up actually speeding up during mile 4, which was a huge shock and a big motivation boost. I ended up catching the guy in 2nd with about 1.5 miles to go (he was the leader for the first 3 miles, so I knew he was falling back a bit). At this point, he got a 2nd wind and kept up with me, so I decided to actually put a tiny surge in to try to dishearten him a bit, which worked perfectly. I only got a bit ahead, but it immediately led to him falling back relatively quickly, which gave me some breathing room to finish 2nd OA.

                       

                      Overall, happy with the race given at mile 3 I thought the wheels were going to come off (this race felt way harder than any of my 3 races last fall). Still, my current VDOT puts me at 1:17:13 half, which means I have a LONG way to go to get down below 1:14. Either way, I've added additional VO2 max and Rep work to this cycle, as I want to do well in the half and I feel I've done so many LT runs during my CIM running that I can focus a bit less on them, still recognizing that they're the bread and butter of marathon training.

                       

                      It was a lot of fun finishing at a brewery, and perhaps most importantly, I won a cool prize for coming in 2nd of 1) a huge beer mug and 2) a free growler and fill of any beer I wanted. Never actually won anything for a race before (besides the classic trophies that you don't really want), so this was pretty fun.

                       

                      Ended with 57 miles this week. I'll be going for 80+ over the next 4 weeks, entering the heart of the training cycle. NYC Half is in 5 weeks.

                      5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:16:05 (10/19)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: NYC Half (3/15/20)

                      CommanderKeen


                      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

                        Has anyone Bismark Marathon? Thinking of it as a back up if I miss Grandma's and still want to be in the BQ window for 2021.

                         

                        No input here, but the question is quite relevant to my interests. 

                        5k: 18:25 10/19 (solo track TT) │ 10k: 38:56 4/18 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

                         

                        Upcoming Races:

                        Vacavillage - 3/1

                          Thank you Nimmals and JMac11

                          IAAF Level 5 / USATF Level 3 Coach (Endurance)

                          IAAF Level 5 / USATF Level 3 Coach (Sprints & Hurdles) 

                          USTFCCCA Strength & Conditioning Certification

                          USATF Cross Country Specialist Coaching Certification

                            Cal - I'm surprised you haven't done trails before given you've run ultras before! I thought that was a must.

                             

                             

                            JMac - I understand, there are so many messages since my weeklies - so, you cannot spend as much time as necessary to understand hat I what I was saying  No problem, I was guilty myself multiple times 

                            Here is what I wrote about my previous trails training:

                             

                            ...I run trails in hope to be better prepared for May's 100K - never did trails so consistently before...

                             

                            So, the key word - consistently - I always trained for the trail races somehow, running them maybe every other week for couple of months, or every 3rd week as they were so taxing on my body that every trail run would stop me from decent running, and of course from doing any workouts for a few days. So, I was still always prioritizing mileage and workouts over specifically running trails - but the trails running still was doing some damage to the mileage and workouts. This time, when I do not have goal marathons in nearest future, I decided to run long runs on trails and see how it helps me in upcoming 100K in may. Why I am not sure about this approach is, because my best trail 100K was when I was not running many trails, but was preparing for Boston 2016 marathon - running a lot of flat miles and doing a lot of workouts. Though I definitely was younger back then and had 4 years of very consistent training before that.

                             

                            It's so interesting how you can overcome the major "down" parts in your races - it's  the hardest thing to do, imho, not to give up when you are so close to give up... 5:41 average. Man... I swear I can run that fast too - but only for one mile 

                              Nimmals: Nice week; I am amazed at the 2 workouts in one day. I know Swim was doing that regularly but man, I would fall apart.

                               

                              You and Otter mentioned the racing at Millrose; yes, it was awesome indeed. I was most blown away by Brazier. He is so smooth and in control. The way he negative split that 800 was crazy, and he stayed controlled the whole way. I'm really looking forward to the 800 in Tokyo. King David is apparently trying to get back to form, but at this moment I'd put my money on Donovan, even over a healthy Amos.

                               

                              Saturday I also went to my son's regional for indoor track. It is so nice to see HS'ers run; no "Mo Farah" type racing, sitting back and waiting. These kids run as hard as they can go from the gun. That's my kind of race.

                               

                              Otter: I hope you stick around, even just to share your perspective and insight.

                               

                              Weather: Nice work getting back to the big mileage and the JD workouts!

                               

                              Keen: Your training looks great; I'd say sub 3 is a lock for you. Just a matter of how far under 3 you will go.

                               

                              JMac: Excellent job on that race, and great that you could pull yourself out of a negative place midway through. You asked about upcoming races for me: I'm planning on a 7.6 mile race in a couple of weeks. It will be like your rust-buster only much, much, much slower. 

                              2:52:16 (2018)

                              dpschumacher


                              Making a comeback

                                Thinking as a back up if I can't run Grandma's and it is before the Boston sign up period. Pancake flat +/- 30 ft

                                 

                                 

                                No input here, but the question is quite relevant to my interests. 

                                2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

                                2020 Goals:

                                5k:16:30

                                HM: 1:18:00

                                Marathon: 2:45:00

                                Next Race: 3/14/2020 O'Gara's 8k