Forums >Racing>2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber
Cobra Commander Keen
Ace - Glad that you're back to healthy, and hope you stay there.
OMR - Looking forward to hearing all about Black Canyon when the full report is finished. Congratulations! Did you come back with a new, slightly water damaged drone?
Cal - Bummer about the issues, but at least you can get over two things at once instead of spreading it out! Get better.
Mark - Very solid week.
JT - Good week as well. Any local sign that winter is coming to an end for you?
DPS - Great week. It's pretty awesome you can just run the whole HM course like that.
Dave - Welcome!
DWave - Solid taper week. What are you planning for this coming week? Sticking to the 4% for the race?
Tokyo - Whoa.
Starting to taper the mileage just a bit - this week I'll probably drop another 10 miles or so off and lighten workouts as well. Felt good overall, though I had to switch my LR day because I simply didn't get up when my alarm went off.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Stotan Disciple
Thats what I’m saying yes on diamond quilted ventilated seats no on 2.5-3 bottles of sake. 😂
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
Mother of Cats
This coming week will be 1200s on Tuesday, a 5K tempo on Friday, and a 12 mile run on Sunday at easy to moderate pace (i.e. a progression, but don't go down to marathon effort). Probably around 50 miles total.
The final week will have 3x4x800 on Tuesday (around 8 miles total), and then just easy from there. 4-5 miles easy on Wednesday, 40-60 minutes of pool-running on Thursday (I may swap to 3-4 on land), off on Friday, 1-2 on Saturday. So....about 16-20 miles pre-race.
CK - it looks like our weeks are somewhat mirroring each other in terms of mileage and structure, though I think your quality days were a bit bigger than mine I'll be interested to see what you do the next 2 weeks.
Nimmals - I agree with you on the shoe price thing. Many race entries cost much more than a pair of $250 shoes, never mind hotel, airfare, etc. And I think you get more use and bang for your buck out of the shoes.
Now granted, that argument has limits. The fact that I'm willing to drop $200-300 on a hotel room doesn't mean that I'd happily pay the same for a lollipop or a single yoga class or a t-shirt. But, running shoes are specialized sporting equipment, and it makes sense to me that a serious runner would invest in a pair, the same way that a serious running might invest in a trip to run London or Berlin.
(my views are also skewed by the fact that horse shoes can run $250+, depending on the need. and you have to replace those every 4-6 weeks.)
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
3 months til Masters
Yea that is coming too and I'm really not looking forward to that one
I really like those kinds of workouts. Either like the one you're describing, averaging ~MP, or alternating between 10K pace and MP to average HMP to Daniels' Threshold pace (60 minutes race effort). I also like the workouts with float recoveries, as I find I can get "more workout" in the same amount of time.
I really like those kinds of workouts. Either like the one you're describing, averaging ~MP, or alternating between 10K pace and MP to average HMP to Daniels' Threshold pace (60 minutes race effort).
I also like the workouts with float recoveries, as I find I can get "more workout" in the same amount of time.
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
DWave - This is technically still a bit up in the air for me, but I'm planning on 20min T, 10 min T tomorrow, then on Friday 4x 3 min I + 4x 400M R. Probably 12 easy for a LR, filling in the rest easy so I'll be around 60 for the week.
Next week just 3x 1T Tuesday or Wednesday with double recovery. Maybe 20-30 miles pre-race, mostly front-loaded. So slightly more easy volume 2 weeks out than last time, but the last week is pretty standard for me. Cutting down volume a lot tends to leave my legs feeling heavy and like they don't want to move fast.
cal: I figured out after a while, when things got spaced out a bit more, that it was better to leave a good 15-20’ of space between me and the runner in front of me (when there was one). My guess is that the people who run technical courses like Black Canyon well have trained themselves to plan things out several steps in advance, not just the next one or two. I got a little better at that once I realized I should be doing it. And yeah, my next ultra will be on a more “runnable” surface for me. Hope you get the hamstring issue figured out: looks like you’ve gotten some good advice.
MarkMark: Thanks, and yes, defend the homeland!
cyberic: Have you ever done (or thought about doing) the Arrowhead 135? You’ve got the icebeard for it.
Dwave: Yeah, the online tracking wasn’t working very well (my wife told me later). I think cell service is a bit spotty in the canyon, so they probably have some kinks to work out there.
nimmals: Thanks, and that’s a heckuva a week you put down.
Nice weeks also by MarkyMark, JTReeves, DPS, Dave, Dwave, Fishy, and I’m sure I missed at least one person. EDITED TO ADD: And that person would be Keen.
and no, Keen, I did not find the drone!
OMR: Never done an ultra. Technically I have as I ran a road 50k twice, but you can barely consider that an ultra.
I tried the Mona Fartlek for the first time today. It was actually a lot of fun. I’m not used to such short intervals, so it was kind of tough to dial in the right paces for both reps and recoveries. Just seemed like a nonstop flurry of watch-beeping. But in the end I was pretty happy with the result, and I think it was more or less where it needed to be.
I may make this a regular thing. I typically only do one speed workout per week, other than adding 10-12 strides at the end of one of my easy runs. (And until I add MP portions to my LR later in the cycle.) But this is kind of a half-workout, so may use it as a sort-of second workout to replace the strides. If not every week, maybe every other. We’ll see.
Dave
CK: Solid looking taper week. Don't go crazy now
DW: Solid looking taper week for you as well! 50 miles sounds about right! Looking like you are ready to roll!
Cal: Hope the hammy clears up soon!
Mark: Good luck on the 10k! Ran one myself on Sunday and forgot how much they hurt regardless of whether it is a tune up or goal race!
JT: looks like you continue to roll on. Nice week!
Nimmals: Damn that is a big weekend!
Nice weeks everyone else! Will be curious to see what happens to other big city marathons if this virus begins to spread more quickly?
Me: Just under 2 weeks before I attempt to race a HM again. Think I have an outside shot at going after sub 75 based on recent workouts and races, but I'm going to need much better weather than the continued warm and humid crap we have, yet again, here in Florida. Raced a local 10K on Sunday, that included 2 hard bridge climbs in the 2nd half and finished in a time 35:06 so not horrible given the weather (about 70 with 97% RH with 15 mph winds out of the east), mostly un-tapered legs, and the difficulty of the course. Wore the VF 4% for the first time ever and can't say if they helped or hurt, but I don't think they are as fast as the Next % based on my previous races. Went out with a slight tailwind and felt pretty good clocking a 5:30 in the first mile then ran with another guy in mile 2-3 clocking in a 5:39, and 5:41 as we fought a bit of a headwind in mile 3. Ran the the 5K split right at 17:33 so knew this wasn't going to be a PR day as the 2nd part of the course is much harder. Turned onto the bridge climb during mile 4 and the wind felt like a wall and lost quite a bit of bit of time here clocking in a 5:51 which was by far my slowest mile split. Literally had a pack of 2-3 right behind me so they were using me as a wind shield for that entire climb. Going downhill helped me speed back up a bit and then we hit a turnaround just after the decent and that is where I was able to really speed up going downwind now. Mile 5 was back to 5:35 and I had lost the pack just behind me except for the lead female who was almost side by side. Hit the 2nd uphill at mile 5.3 and gained a few seconds on the lead female and then gave it my all once the downhill took over. Ended up with a 5:32 split for mile 6 (which included that uphill and downhill) and then for the final 0.27 miles had 4:48 pace finishing just 4 seconds faster than the winning female (who broke the women's CR by 2 minutes. Surprised that I was able to also run 17:33 for that half of the course given my slower 5:51 mile 4 as well. Strava also gave me a 1K and 1/2 mile PR so I guess I was moving at the end! Also finished the race 2OA as the winner was a good 30 seconds ahead of me the entire time. Happy with the effort, but not sure it quite gets me to sub 75 fitness, but I gather it is close enough based on the course and weather. Other workout of note was Wednesday AM where I hit 5 X 1200 meter repeats, also on the bridge, so that could have been in my legs even 4 days later during the race. Also clocked in with 84.5 miles for the week, but will be cutting back the volume towards the end of this week. Full taper will be in effect after Saturday, especially if the weather looks like it will cooperate.
1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21) | 10K: 33:40 (4/20) | 15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20) | FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)
RIP Milkman
OMR - great work! I don't really follow ultras but based on your description, the changing terrain sounds awful. I can't imagine running 100K and never feeling like you hit a stride!
Cal - sorry about your hamstring issues. I'll leave it to others on that, as I've only had one minor hamstring issue. Most of my problems are below the knee. I will say though that I've found that heat, massage/rolling, and tape have cured almost everything I've had.
JT - what's the goal for the race?
Nimmals - that's just a crazy run on Sunday. Good luck with OSR!
Dave - welcome, I've seen you around before, we always like having regulars who participate in a meaningful way (although there seem to be a lot of regular RA trolls). It's great that you got that Boston qualifier last year! Most folks thought Boston was tough last year with that heat that came in the 2nd half, but it's been tough for about 4 straight years now. No idea why I signed up again...
Mark - I have three different versions of racing: full taper, mini-taper, and run through it. It looks like you're trying option number 3. However, even for that option, I will be sure to have 3 easy days before the race so that you're at least somewhat fresh coming in.
Cyber - sorry to hear that. I'm shocked to hear you've never done 2 days off in a row. You may just be burned out. See how you feel after a week, maybe you'll change your mind on the marathon.
Keen - you trying anything different this taper after your last marathon, or are you just chalking that up to your illness (which is what I did)
DW - interesting stuff on marathon pace and how you feel. I ran in the Takumi Sen for my quality day on Thursday, which had everything from easy pace all the way down to mile pace. I do think the shoe feels better the faster you go, but I had no problem with the slow stuff in it.
Fishy - that's the problem with running MP during races, very hard not to run too fast! Been there, done that.
Weather - that was great racing from you. I will say that VO2 max takes a LONG time to recover from, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were still in your legs 4 days later. I tend to do threshold work the week of a race as they're much easier to recover from. I agree that sub 75 should be in the cards for you.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Me - First really good week of training for me where both quality days went well. My Thursday session of VO2 max and Rep work went much better than my attempt at it two weeks ago. I don't think this type of work is very critical to a marathon, but as stated, I want to take a good crack at my half tune up so I'm keeping them in the repertoire longer than usual. My long run on Sunday may also have been one of my best ever, as I ended up averaging 6:43 pace for 20 miles. I had gone into the long run thinking of doing a Pfitz style progression (start at MP+20% and work your way down to MP+10%, with current MP around 6:10 pace), but I had one of those runs where no matter how easy I tried to take it early on, I kept being faster than expected (I wish all runs could be like that ). We'll see how this week goes though: a tough V02 max and fast long run are about as hard as a week comes, and my legs really feel terrible right now.
JMac- Thanks, Lesson learned! I had my eye on a couple of 30 K races over the next few weeks but may skip them.
5K 18:36 (2023), 10K 39:40 (2022), 1/2 1:24:37 (2023), full 2:58:36 (2015)
Problem Child
Spending money $200 on shoes? Psh....I'm trying to buy the front axles cut out of a 30ish year old truck for $1,300. You'd THINK I'd drop $250 on some Vaporflys for my upcoming half marathon but NOPE. I'm sticking with my fly knits. MAYBE for Boston. I predict horrible weather as training weather for my area this year has been excellent. Even if it has been a little windy.
JMac I'd expect you to be a little sore with going for that Moose Mug. Keep diggin man. It's looking good.
OMR I had a few locals run Black Canyons and your 2017 was the year I was thinking of when it flooded. I didn't think of the technical aspect of running trails like that. The locals I knew said it very much ISN'T a flat runnable type course. I guess it depends on what you compare it to. If you make it into States let me know. At this point I'm all about that pacing duties for ultra marathons and meeting up with my online friends. My wife kind of expects it and at least it isn't weird to me anymore.
cal I can't tell if you're being sarcastic about the Black Canyons cutoff or not. Either way you're training is looking good. I guess if your race is runnable it makes sense why you're getting 60+miles of runnable trails and a long run in the hills.
DavePNW Sub 3:20. I like it. Added it to the list. Best of luck.
dps Saw the run on Strava this morning. The heart rate looked good. I couldn't really see the pace all that well but it looked like you had to slow down. Do you just adjust the speed on the treadmill for each half mile? Oh and my comment of "snail" was Snow + Hail = SN-ail. Not calling you slow.
dwave weird how I picked 1,200s and so did you. Oh and horses are a MASSIVE pile of money. I think ANYTHING is cheaper than horse ANYTHING. I don't even want to TALK about saddles. My mom has a western one from the year or two she owned a hors. I'm not sure why she keeps it other than decoration. I'm pretty sure it was expensive and it's been close to 20 years since she has owned a horse.
My week was light. Got my workout in I think, but it was miserable. It's what I get for just picking something and not understanding the logic. I at least surprised myself with my abilities, as well as admitted defeat and hung my head knowing I'd just done exactly hat I wasn't supposed to do. The workout became "run until it hurts" and that's what I accomplished.
M: 6.6 miles
Tu: 7x400. 80 seconds hard, 80 seconds recovery. Either too fast, or not enough recovery. Hammered out 7 thinking I was doing 6 and I was SMOKED at 7.
W: 6.6 trail
Th: 8.3 Trail. RB said how I'm always missing out on this great single track so I went after it. I was thinking "this is probably more fun on a mountain bike" and then encountered a mountain biker going UP hill who didn't want to move so I made my own way arond him and smacked my shin on something. The trail wasn't worth it. Neither was the extra 15 minutes to get 1 extra mile.
F: 1.0. Only ran for the bet. SO unmotivated with no one around. It was a nice day too.
Sa: 1.0 after Ham radio class and before Junkyard adventures. Ran to the local homebrew shop and I don't think they recognized me. I even topped it off by running in the deadzone and NO ONE CAUGHT ON...or commented.
Su: 10.36. I was feeling good and wanted to get 10. I could have gotten up to 12 but spent time chatting, and didn't run back home. Felt good running a 10 miler though.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
I'm moving in with my parents. Yes, I said it!
DD2 is now sick. Fever, throwing up, the whole 9 yards. Of course I didn't know she was sick until after she crawled into bed with me for 90 minutes or so this morning (she said she was scared from a nightmare, and acted genuine about it). Hopefully she recovers quickly, but I'm having flashbacks to before Dallas when I got sick 2 weeks before, then during the race.
JMac - Awesome week especially the killer LR. This time around I'm going to try even harder to not get sick, but otherwise things are basically the same as what I planned on for Dallas.