On Wisconsin! (Read 2073 times)

    "Right to own a home"? This was part of the problem right there, the assumption that everyone should own a home. Lots of people are better off renting.  This mentality is part of what drove the system to the point it reached, including gov't incentives to over-ramp home ownership. 

     

    I don't disagree that there's not an automatic "right to own a home," but beyond failing to guide people, the industry specifically targets people who should not be getting into such financial arrangements, just to suck their blood.  Look at the late-night TV ads for paycheck cashing outfits.  The sub-prime mortgage industry is only a little less blatant.

    Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

      "I believe that in this way the teacher always is the prophet of the true God and the usherer in of the true kingdom of God."

      -John Dewey

       

       

      I'm guessing that Dewey would support the teacher unionsRoll eyes

       

      Indeed. Hey--way to take a quote out of context. Looks like you coulda used a philosophy teacher.

      xor


        >> "Right to own a home"? This was part of the problem right there, the assumption that everyone should own a home. Lots of people are better off renting.

         

        That sounds nice and that may be true, but that's not what a large group of people were told and sold.  It's one thing to make declarations like this... it's a whole 'nother thing to sit down with families or groups and try to explain it to them.  Financial planning for those of limited means and limited (desire? sometimes, brainpower? hmmm....sometimes) is a big challenge.  BIG.  And sooo much harder when the industry is dangling easy money and the picture of "the good life" (own this big home!) at the same time.

         

        Not unlike trying to convince the person of limited means to eat healthy when "food" seems cheap and good at mcdonalds.

         

        I spent a couple years as a volunteer doing the money management gig.  This was BEFORE the loan situation went crazy with spooky loans.  It was super hard then.

         

        This, of course, does not absolve people of personal responsibility or some folks from gaming the system.  But stating "you shouldn't own a home" is a whole lot easier in a running message board with lots of middle class folks than it is in real life.

         

          Read--this is where the quote came from. 

           

          (I'm absolutely sure you won't bother.) (FWIW, this was one of the very first things that Dewey wrote. The piece I quoted was from his mature thought--32 years later.)

            Read--this is where the quote came from. 

             

            (I'm absolutely sure you won't bother.) (FWIW, this was one of the very first things that Dewey wrote. The piece I quoted was from his mature thought--32 years later.)

             

            And how old are you, Jeff?   JUST KIDDING, I couldn't resist.  (I enjoy reading what you write, even if I can't understand all of it!)

              And how old are you, Jeff?   JUST KIDDING, I couldn't resist.  (I enjoy reading what you write, even if I can't understand all of it!)

               

              I know!! I am hoping to become more mature in my thinking (I guess.) But also hope that people don't pull random crap out of the blue in order to misrepresent my views. Heaven knows there's plenty of random crap to choose from.

                Read--this is where the quote came from. 

                 

                (I'm absolutely sure you won't bother.) (FWIW, this was one of the very first things that Dewey wrote. The piece I quoted was from his mature thought--32 years later.)

                 Thanks - I've read Dewey before (a little anyway), and that's obviously where I pulled the quote.  I had to work quickly to tie it to the Wisconsin protesters and admittedly took some libertiesBig grin

                2012 Goals: 1:35-ish Half Mary ->(result 1:38:40).  Bust the sub 20 5k barrier (19:54!!!!) and whoop the 1000 mile bunny (ok, bunny, you win).

                   

                     Thanks - I've read Dewey before (a little anyway), and that's obviously where I pulled the quote.  I had to work quickly to tie it to the Wisconsin protesters and admittedly took some libertiesBig grin

                     

                    'S all good. Don't be messing with my Dewey now!


                    Dave

                      it is hypocritical to say employees / union or not should try and get all the pay and benefits that they can from a company and then question why a company should seek as much profit for its shareholders as possible. 

                       

                      Reality it is should be (And part of our mission statement) a balance between value provided to

                      1)  The customer

                      2)  The shareholder

                      3)  The employee

                       

                      But in our society all parties involved seem to want to mazimize their part and are not interested in balance.  But the shareholder can drive the final descision because we as consumers only want the lowest cost - The employee is going to take it in the pants ... until the cost to produce where you work is a neutral option to other options.

                       

                      The other choice is we as consumers demand something other thant he lowest price ...

                       

                      +1 Billion

                      I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

                      dgb2n@yahoo.com


                      Fat butt on couch

                        it is hypocritical to say employees / union or not should try and get all the pay and benefits that they can from a company and then question why a company should seek as much profit for its shareholders as possible. 

                         

                        Reality it is should be (And part of our mission statement) a balance between value provided to

                        1)  The customer

                        2)  The shareholder

                        3)  The employee

                         

                        But in our society all parties involved seem to want to mazimize their part and are not interested in balance.  But the shareholder can drive the final descision because we as consumers only want the lowest cost - The employee is going to take it in the pants ... until the cost to produce where you work is a neutral option to other options.

                         

                        The other choice is we as consumers demand something other thant he lowest price ...

                         

                        Since (for most people) the days of making a career with a single company are gone, it is up to the employee to drive for their best position by using the increased openness to pursuing new opportunities to preserve or grow their value to a company.  While is is a truth today it is not one I like, I hate the thought of switching employers and the thought of having to move and disrupt my family's stability even more.  But it is what it is.  I guess I buck the norm in that, so far, I have not had an issue with our yearly decreasing benefits as I have (so far) believed the cuts reasonable given our environment and justified my acceptance by believing that it increases the likelihood that I will have an employer here in the long term to enable stability for my job and family.

                         

                        (This ignores the whole other problem in the recent recession, that with defunct home values and underwater mortgages even people willing to relocate to take new jobs were held hostage by their homes).

                         

                        Even as I have blamed the local mom and pops where I grew up for sealing their own fate in the face of WalMart, I voiced my hatred of WalMart.  My reason for this is that we no longer get to make a trade-off of price vs quality....over the last 10-15 years WalMart has gone from getting the same stuff at lower prices, to getting the cheapest Chinese crap at the lower prices.  There are many items I desire quality, and am willing to pay more for it, but can no longer get it because WalMart obliterated my other options and they offer nothing of quality.  ALl I can hope is that there will be a correction to the market that pull things back in the other direction...this works in larger areas with more options fine but in small towns, not so much.

                         

                        As long as lowest price rules, it's just crap to choose from....

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         

                          the bill passed in the house at 1 AM as only 13 of the 38 Democrats managed to vote in time.  not that Democrats could have had enough votes anyway.  But it demostrates the chaos that is our government here. 

                           

                          crazy days.

                           

                          http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110225/ap_on_re_us/us_wisconsin_budget_unions

                           

                          video of the vote below must be seen to be believed.  what the hell?  Is this the UK or something?

                           

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGDp581g9t0

                           

                          An email from a representative:

                           

                           

                          Dear Neighbor:

                           

                          In the early hours of Friday morning, the people running the State Assembly violated the rules of the house and rammed through a vote approving Gov. Walker’s radical bill that would eliminate collective bargaining rights for public employees, allow no-bid contracts for the sale of the state’s power plants, and open the door to pushing thousands of people off of BadgerCare. 

                           

                          The vote was handled so poorly that more than a dozen members, including two Republicans and the Independent who opposed the bill, failed to register their votes for the bill. Those who missed the vote were not just inexperienced members who might have been confused by the chaos. Among those who were denied a vote was last session’s presiding officer, a long-term member and one of the Assembly’s leading experts on the body’s rules. Friday’s move came exactly one week after Republicans violated Wisconsin’s open meetings law by casting votes before the time they set for the Assembly to convene. At least they had the good sense to expunge that vote. 

                           

                          The unlawful vote by the Assembly stood in stark contrast to the lawful behavior of the tens of thousands of Wisconsin citizens who have been demonstrating against the bill. I have probably talked to 100 different law enforcement officers during the protests and every single one of them told me there have been no problems. Given how many people have been crammed together for so long in such uncomfortable conditions with passions running so high, that is a remarkable accomplishment that speaks volumes about the strength of our civic fabric in Wisconsin.

                           

                          But the demonstrators have gone way beyond simply not breaking the law. They have made it their responsibility to care for others by providing food and first aid stations, protecting one another and cleaning the stately halls of the Capitol. I ran into a mother who swept the marble floor while carrying her 7 month old daughter Lila. During debate in the Assembly, I was keenly aware that I was not just speaking for myself, but for all of you who oppose this bill, and for good people like Lila’s mom.

                           

                          The debate surrounding the bill was cut off prematurely by Assembly’s presiding officer. The tradition of the State Assembly, like the US Senate, is to allow people to speak for as long as they feel is necessary. If members want to cut off debate, they need to follow a very specific procedure, under Assembly Rule 71, that requires a separate roll-call vote to silence members and bring the measure at hand to a vote. 

                           

                          The roll call needed to end debate never happened. Instead, the presiding officer just unilaterally said “debate is over we are opening the roll to vote.” As far as anyone can tell, that move has never been pulled before in the State Assembly since rule 71 has been in place. The presiding officer quickly closed the roll and chaos ensued. The shouting you saw on TV reflected the anger and frustration Democrats felt as Republicans left the Assembly Chambers after silencing the representatives of hundreds of thousands of Wisconsin citizens who oppose the Budget Repair Bill.

                           

                          Having served in the Assembly for more than a dozen years, I have seen hot debates before. But members could always agree that they need to follow the rules of the Assembly. It is tremendously concerning that at a time when tensions are running high and when the eyes of the nation are on our state government that this is the time when Assembly Republicans choose to play fast and loose with the rules. As we move forward on this bill, the Assembly needs get back on track. You deserve to have the confidence that your government is obeying the law even though you might disagree with what it is doing.

                           

                          As always, if I or my staff can be of assistance to you in any way, please do not hesitate to contact my office toll free at (888) 534-0019 or via email at rep.richards@legis.wisconsin.gov. 

                           

                          Sincerely, 

                          Representative Jon Richards

                          19th Assembly District

                           

                          In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                          http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                           

                           

                           





                          DoppleBock


                            http://www.postbulletin.com/news/stories/display.php?id=1446420

                             

                            2 things from this article scare me, if true

                             

                            2/3 of WI 8th graders are not reading at a proficient level

                             

                            &

                             

                            In 10 years, starting in 1998, Wisconsin doubled the amount of money spent on each public-school student to more than $10,000 per pupil per year. And test scores went down! Doing the math, the equation seems to be that money is not the key to knowledge

                             

                            Although I agree with Bill the lack of performance is more of a parent issue than a teacher issue.

                            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                             

                              Doing the math, the equation seems to be that money is not the key to knowledge 

                               

                              I got this from some trade magazine and thought it fit well...it is Just about the Math:

                               

                              As everyone knows, the following holds true:

                               

                              Postulate 1: Time is Money

                              Postulate 2: Knowledge is Power

                               

                              As everyone knows,  Power = Work / Time

                               

                              As we substitute for Power and Time, we get:

                               

                              Knowledge = Work / Money

                               

                              Solving for Money, we get:

                               

                              Money = Work / Knowledge

                               

                              Thus as Knowledge approaches 0, Money approaches infinity.

                               

                              Conclusion:  The less you know, the more you make regardless of the work done.

                               

                              As DB said, it is in the equation...

                              DoppleBock


                                Actually Bill said what I quoted.

                                 

                                My 2 stated concerns

                                1)  America's students are falling down

                                2)  The cost of education has increased 100% over 10 years

                                 

                                There is some correlation - Because of how we parent or lack there of (Using TV and Video games as Parents) - Our kids are falling down.  Because our kids are falling down - the cost of specialized education services (Amongst other things) are driving the cost of education up.

                                 

                                So I am not sure of the peice of the cost puzzle related to teachers - is it 5% or 25%.  I am also unsure the piece of the "results" of education puzzle related to teachers.  But I find a lean analogy interesting - 90-95% percent of issues/failures you think are related to your people are really related to the processes that are set up for you people to follow.  Too often we put in road blocks to success and then expect our people to be extraordinary just to do their job.  1st attack the process and procedures to make sure it sets up the employee for success.  After you are sure of the quality of your process and procedures then you review your employees ability (Or attitude issues) to follow them.

                                 

                                PS - I am certain I am the poster child for bad grammer and spelling ... lower 49% percentile.  But 99%+ for Math and Science ...

                                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35