On Wisconsin! (Read 2073 times)

xor


    What I want to know is if the group of Wisconsin legislators is still holed up in Illinois, like a gang post-bank robbery.  Because, you know, bailing on your state to huff and puff in another state is a very mature way to solve problems.

     

      It's complicated.

       

      I have a lot of friends who are K12 teachers.  Every one of them works super duper hard and gets the shaft in lots of ways.  K12 teaching is one of those "calling" type activities.

       

      I agree. I have worked in K12 teaching, and my wife does now. The work is hard and rewarding. You have to be a professional in every sense of the word--be on call at all hours, work outside of general office hours; the work takes intellect, emotion, compassion, toughness, an ability to deal with frustration and failure--all of that. Which is also why it is rewarding.

       

      Unfortunately, many teacher's unions have put institutional structures in place that reward longevity and complacency. They tend to act on behalf of the interests of the folks who have been in the profession for a very long time: protecting those positions against change and opportunity for rising stars. 

       

      Obama has been very clear about the damage that these unions have done to the schools, and he has been very good about supporting alternative institutional structures that would reward the best teachers, attract bright and competent people into education, etc. So, he has not blindly supported the unions and has begun to articulate policies that address the complexity of the issue instead of blindly backing unions (or blindly criticizing them.)

       

      On the other hand, one reason--and it is sort of ironic--that teacher's unions have become so powerful is that schools are always very controversial. They are asked to do the work of integration in the South. They are asked to be advocates for science in the face of religious movements that attack the scientific method and its results. They are asked to do the work of transforming poor communities into middle class communities. They are asked to prepare the children of middle class families for college. They are asked to create attitudes of tolerance and civility in their classroom that allow for this pluralistic society to live together amid our differences.

       

      The rigidity of the unions is in many ways an effect of the relentless criticism that the public education takes (and ought to take) in a pluralistic society. The classroom of the teacher has been heavily politicized in a way that private corporate America--the jobs that many folks outside education have--is not politicized. Teachers did not set out to have these rigid institutional union practices--they came into effect through protection against real threats. That history helps understand why some are reluctant to let them go, even if they are on the wrong side of history this time.


      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

        A very mature way to ....do what?

         

        Are you sure you understand what the purpose of legislators is?

        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

        xor


          A very mature way to ....do what?

           

          Are you sure you understand what the purpose of legislators is?

           

          I think I do.  Confused

           

            SRL,

             

            I agree.  But know this... in their mind that's the only choice they have.  Reasoning is this, if they leave the bill cannot be passed and there is dicussion on the matter via protests etc.  The minute they return the vote is over.  The Republicans control all 3 branches of government and have already said they have the votes to pass it.  So them comming back is not going to add to the "solving" part.

             

            Again... not my position.  But that is their reasoning. 

            In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

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            HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

              The purpose of legislators is to get re-elected. Which means making money. So anything that gets press coverage is usually good for their purpose.

               

              I don't know what nonsense you were babbling about problems and solving them, unless you mean the problem of getting enough money into the reelection campaign.

              It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

              xor


                Ok, so what's the rationale behind very loudly going to another state.  Is there some rule that if they are inside those WELCOME TO WISCONSIN signs, "something happens"?

                 

                That's the piece that seems petty and weird.  The point, of course, is that I don't have all the facts.  A lot of what I've put in this thread is how the WI thing is getting reported and viewed from another part of the US.  I don't know that this part matters all that much to those in WI, but still.

                 

                No, I do not always understand how government works.  But I do, at least I'd like to think that I do, understand what the purposes of state reps and senators are.

                 

                Edited to add: oh yes, the getting re-elected and fundraising bit.  Yes.  Ok. Got it.

                 

                  Ok, so what's the rationale behind very loudly going to another state.  Is there some rule that if they are inside those WELCOME TO WISCONSIN signs, "something happens"?

                   

                   

                  Yes.  If they are inside the State then the vote can happen.

                  In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                  http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                   

                   

                   





                  xor


                    Ohhhhhhhhh.

                     

                    Ok then.

                     

                    Now I get it.  Of course, that piece isn't being reported here.

                     

                      Gotta have a quorum for any vote on finances.

                      Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        Ohhhhhhhhh.

                         

                        Ok then.

                         

                        Now I get it.  Of course, that piece isn't being reported here.

                         

                        Ok, that was a fundamental part of the story. I think your reporting kinda sucks.

                         

                        Course, it might not be only yours.

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                        xor


                          Gotta have a quorum for any vote on finances.

                           

                          That I understand.  What I did not understand was the rules regarding when people count and when they don't.  Didn't know if you were inside the sign (but eating cheese far far away from Madison) you counted.  Now I do.

                           

                          xor


                            Ok, that was a fundamental part of the story. I think your reporting kinda sucks.

                             

                            Course, it might not be only yours.

                             

                            I have no doubt that our reporting is not accurate nor complete.  No, this is not specific to my location.

                             

                              Ohhhhhhhhh.

                               

                              Ok then.

                               

                              Now I get it.  Of course, that piece isn't being reported here.

                               

                               

                              Why would they report that?  It makes us sound like bigger idiots if you just report the sensational part and don't explain the reasons for things. 

                               

                              Did they report that cops were out looking for them?  That's good copy. 

                               

                              quorum sounds like boring.   cops looking for lawmakers is way better. 

                              In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                              http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                               

                               

                               





                                What I read was that if they are within the state, then the WI state patrol has the authority to round them up and bring them to the state house for a vote.  But maybe they just need to be in the state for a vote to happen?

                                 

                                Strange stuff indeed.

                                Runners run.