..., because they're not at a full capacity event.

This is completely false. The race is perfectly at capacity. Based on pre-pandemic numbers they nailed it.

The race is typically only 80% qualifiers. BAA's words, not mine.

Therefore, if BAA advertises a 30K field comprised of 80% qualifiers they need 24,000 qualified applications to fill the race. That happens to be the same number of applications they announced yesterday. The balance of the field will be comprised of charity runners, runners with waivers, sponsors, thank yous, and whatnot. Those spots are in high demand and easily filled.

Had they opened registration to unvaxed runners they might have gotten up to an additional 2100 applications. That's based on the 7% unvaccinated runners this year. In that case, they would have had 26,100 applications for 24,000 spots and needed to turn about 2100 people away with a cutoff time.

So, as per usual, BAA really knows their numbers.

MTA: See you there. I'm in too.

Running Problem

Problem Child

This is completely false. The race is perfectly at capacity. Based on pre-pandemic numbers they nailed it.

The race is typically only 80% qualifiers. BAA's words, not mine.

Therefore, if BAA advertises a 30K field comprised of 80% qualifiers they need 24,000 qualified applications to fill the race. That happens to be the same number of applications they announced yesterday. The balance of the field will be comprised of charity runners, runners with waivers, sponsors, thank yous, and whatnot. Those spots are in high demand and easily filled.

Had they opened registration to unvaxed runners they might have gotten up to an additional 2100 applications. That's based on the 7% unvaccinated runners this year. In that case, they would have had 26,100 applications for 24,000 spots and needed to turn about 2100 people away with a cutoff time.

So, as per usual, BAA really knows their numbers.

MTA: See you there. I'm in too.

Registration is absolutely open to unvaccinated runners. They didn't require any vaccination proof to register and they most likely won't until race day. Someone could get COVID 19 soon, and start getting vaccinated in March to comply with their requirements. You know, because having recovered from COVID 19 doesn't grant you protection against COVID 19 because you can't prove it with a positive test.

I thought it was a 50k runner event not a 30k event.

Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

VDOT 54.9

5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

I meant it from the standpoint of runners getting an actual bib for race day. Anyone unwilling to be vaxed won’t be running next year. So, by “runners” I meant the people on the course next Patriots Day. That is not open to unvaxed runners.

I acknowledge that you are correct. Registration only required that you agree to provide proof of vaccination at a later date. Unvaxed runners can sign up now and vax later. Or they can make a donation to the B.A.A. I have to imagine most runners opposed to being vaxed aren’t going contractually agree to providing proof of something they are unwilling to do and then be denied entry to the race.

Are you able to acknowledge the race is actually at full capacity of qualified runners.

Registration is absolutely open to unvaccinated runners. They didn't require any vaccination proof to register and they most likely won't until race day. Someone could get COVID 19 soon, and start getting vaccinated in March to comply with their requirements. You know, because having recovered from COVID 19 doesn't grant you protection against COVID 19 because you can't prove it with a positive test.

I thought it was a 50k runner event not a 30k event.

darkwave

Mother of Cats

Therefore, if BAA advertises a 30K field comprised of 80% qualifiers they need 24,000 qualified applications to fill the race. That happens to be the same number of applications they announced yesterday. The balance of the field will be comprised of charity runners, runners with waivers, sponsors, thank yous, and whatnot. Those spots are in high demand and easily filled.

Had they opened registration to unvaxed runners they might have gotten up to an additional 2100 applications. That's based on the 7% unvaccinated runners this year. In that case, they would have had 26,100 applications for 24,000 spots and needed to turn about 2100 people away with a cutoff time.

So, as per usual, BAA really knows their numbers.

As for the side question of how the BAA nailed it exactly?  My hunch is that they have a bit of fudge room.  If they had 24,124 applicants, rather than turn away 124, they were probably able to flex a little bit to let in the additional 124.  However, if they had had 26,100 applications, they would have exceeded their fudge room and implemented the cut off, at which point they would have stuck with 24,000, or slightly over/under that #.

Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

Agree. It’s easy to iron out small numbers. They could simply offer local running clubs who volunteer one additional waiver. Btw, while it may cost \$195 for a qualifier, those waivers cost about \$300. Not a bad money making option.

As for the side question of how the BAA nailed it exactly?  My hunch is that they have a bit of fudge room.  If they had 24,124 applicants, rather than turn away 124, they were probably able to flex a little bit to let in the additional 124.  However, if they had had 26,100 applications, they would have exceeded their fudge room and implemented the cut off, at which point they would have stuck with 24,000, or slightly over/under that #.

Running Problem

Problem Child

I meant it from the standpoint of runners getting an actual bib for race day. Anyone unwilling to be vaxed won’t be running next year. So, by “runners” I meant the people on the course next Patriots Day. That is not open to unvaxed runners.

I acknowledge that you are correct. Registration only required that you agree to provide proof of vaccination at a later date. Unvaxed runners can sign up now and vax later. Or they can make a donation to the B.A.A. I have to imagine most runners opposed to being vaxed aren’t going contractually agree to providing proof of something they are unwilling to do and then be denied entry to the race.

Are you able to acknowledge the race is actually at full capacity of qualified runners.

You were so focused on vaccination and making your point you missed where I said I thought it was a 50k runner event.

I find it interesting they're not allowing religious exemptions. Hospitals allow them, but if you're going to be outside for a few hours with strangers exercising (something continually exempted from COVID 19 lockdowns) vaccination is 100% required.

I honestly don't expect COVID 19 vaccination to be required in 2023. It should make an interesting conversational piece.

Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

VDOT 54.9

5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

DavePNW

I thought it was a 50k runner event not a 30k event.

It’s a 30k event.

Dave

darkwave

Mother of Cats

You were so focused on vaccination and making your point you missed where I said I thought it was a 50k runner event.

I find it interesting they're not allowing religious exemptions. Hospitals allow them, but if you're going to be outside for a few hours with strangers exercising (something continually exempted from COVID 19 lockdowns) vaccination is 100% required.

I honestly don't expect COVID 19 vaccination to be required in 2023. It should make an interesting conversational piece.

I though they were allowing religious exemptions.  This is not my area of law, but I would think they would be on shaky ground if they didn't allow religious or medical exemptions.

Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

DavePNW

I though they were allowing religious exemptions.  This is not my area of law, but I would think they would be on shaky ground if they didn't allow religious or medical exemptions.

The statement on their website makes no specific mention of religious exemption:
“Any registered athlete who cannot provide proof of vaccination will not be allowed to participate in the race. Requests for a medical exemption will be reviewed individually.“

Dave

You were so focused on vaccination and making your point you missed where I said I thought it was a 50k runner event.

I find it interesting they're not allowing religious exemptions. Hospitals allow them, but if you're going to be outside for a few hours with strangers exercising (something continually exempted from COVID 19 lockdowns) vaccination is 100% required.

I honestly don't expect COVID 19 vaccination to be required in 2023. It should make an interesting conversational piece.

Gotcha. Yes, I was replying to your statement regarding vax and not being at capacity. So, yes the vax issue weighed into my response. Guilty. Basically my point is that requiring it didn’t cause them to not sell out. I gave evidence and citations to that.  I also underestimated what you know about the Boston Marathon. Again, my bad.

I think we’ve made our points. I’m moving on.

darkwave

Mother of Cats

The statement on their website makes no specific mention of religious exemption:
“Any registered athlete who cannot provide proof of vaccination will not be allowed to participate in the race. Requests for a medical exemption will be reviewed individually.“

Very interesting.  Again, not my area of law, but religion is a protected class.  And you have to have a good reason to discriminate against it.  And if they're granting medical exemptions, that makes it very hard to argue that they can't grant exemptions for other reasons.

OTOH, I'm sure they didn't go this route without running it past counsel first.

Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

DavePNW

Very interesting.  Again, not my area of law, but religion is a protected class.  And you have to have a good reason to discriminate against it.  And if they're granting medical exemptions, that makes it very hard to argue that they can't grant exemptions for other reasons.

OTOH, I'm sure they didn't go this route without running it past counsel first.

Well they don’t say they allow religious exemptions, but they don’t say they DON’T allow them. So maybe they’re just using verbiage that avoids proactively opening things up too much, even knowing in the end they’ll have to accept them. IDK. To your point, I’d assume they took legal counsel on this.

Dave

JMac11

I spilled the milk

Well they don’t say they allow religious exemptions, but they don’t say they DON’T allow them. So maybe they’re just using verbiage that avoids proactively opening things up too much, even knowing in the end they’ll have to accept them. IDK. To your point, I’d assume they took legal counsel on this.

If they're like any lawyers I've interacted with, they probably said "well, the law says X, but you could interpret it as Y, so it's up to you. Please make sure to refill our retainer by Monday."

5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)

Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

The president and ceo of the B.A.A. is an attorney.

If they're like any lawyers I've interacted with, they probably said "well, the law says X, but you could interpret it as Y, so it's up to you. Please make sure to refill our retainer by Monday."

JMac11

I spilled the milk

The president and ceo of the B.A.A. is an attorney.

I sure hope he went to outside counsel on this and didn't pay his own firm/self for legal advice!

5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)

Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)