Forums >General Running>Heart Rate and Getting Stronger
I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but I don't even really know how to ask the question so I have no idea how to search for the answer.
Anyway, I know getting constant conditions in running is tough (wind, weight, tiredness, etc...), but assuming everything is constant as the muscles engaged in running get stronger would you expect HR to decrease at a fixed pace? I know there are other adaptations going on so assume a plateau has been hit and other parts of the body have stopped improving.
I'd really like to increase my "Zone 2" pace and I'm wondering if the way to do that is building muscle with some combination of weights or intervals. I do a decent amount of "speed work", but I like being outside longer than a true intervals workout takes so I generally do a few too many miles before starting intervals so I think I get to the "muscle building" zones too easily from general fatigue instead of purely taxing the muscles.
Thanks!
Pace Prophet
Don't fixate too much on zones. As you build aerobic fitness, which comes from lots of easy miles, your HR at a given pace should get lower - or really, the way you should look at it, your pace at a given HR should improve.
This is an important question for someone trying to get the full affect and benefit from their interval workout.
The simple answer would be that if you want to increase the duration of your interval workout, do it at the cool-down more than in the warm-up.
You are right that you would don't really want to be fatigued before you start the intervals. Additionally, common strategy for intervals is to not run to failure - leave a little in the tank by the time you do your last one. Then, if you want to do a nice long cool down, it's not going to do much to detract from the adaptations you've gained in the workout.
You also ask how to increase your pace while staying in Zone 2. That is a different question. In order to be able to increase the pace you can do and still stay within the zone 2 heart rate, you just need to generally improve. That would be more base miles, more speed work, and just more general adaptation overall. Like Ilanarama said, improvements comes as " your pace at a given HR should improve."
Biomimeticist
If you're a beginning runner, your body will improve slightly simply because it can find some biomechanic improvement on its own. If you've been running awhile, then your body has already reached peak running skill. Your HR is attached to your biomechanic efficiency, which unless you change, won't alter either.
That's the joke of the 2hr marathon quest that Nike tried last summer. Even with building a giant wall on a vehicle to eliminate wind resistance, along with rotating pace runners (all illegal in competition of course), wasted $4 Million trying to get their elite top runners to break the time barrier.
The accomplishment, if successful would have been the sales pitch for the VaporFly. Of course they didn't. So they sell you the shoe telling buyers it'll increase your speed by 4%. The joke of course is that the attempt failed.
Why?
Because even the elite, if they don't change the way they run, will never run faster...
Since they couldn't break the time barrier legitimately, they couldn't do it illegally either. Because the way they ran never changed.
Your peak speed is a biomechanic limitation. Unless you impact that, everything else in focus is a waste of time.
So you can do all training you want, but to impact your HR for any given speed, or increase your speed for the same energy expenditure, you have to reduce the biomechanic inefficiencies in how you run.
If you want to run faster, ask yourself the question why track events are held in counter clockwise rotation and not the other way around?
If you don't understand the biomechanic difference between running different direction curves, then every clockwise turn you take over the course of a racing event, will slow you down even more. Erase that skill deficit and of course you'll run faster for the same energy expenditure...
Experts said the world is flat
Experts said that man would never fly
Experts said we'd never go to the moon
Name me one of those "experts"...
History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong
I'm sure this has been answered somewhere, but I don't even really know how to ask the question so I have no idea how to search for the answer. Anyway, I know getting constant conditions in running is tough (wind, weight, tiredness, etc...), but assuming everything is constant as the muscles engaged in running get stronger would you expect HR to decrease at a fixed pace? I know there are other adaptations going on so assume a plateau has been hit and other parts of the body have stopped improving. I'd really like to increase my "Zone 2" pace and I'm wondering if the way to do that is building muscle with some combination of weights or intervals. I do a decent amount of "speed work", but I like being outside longer than a true intervals workout takes so I generally do a few too many miles before starting intervals so I think I get to the "muscle building" zones too easily from general fatigue instead of purely taxing the muscles. Thanks!
Your heart rate is the result of the need to meet the muscle's demand for oxygen. Don't think in terms of 'strength'. Think about 'capacity' and 'efficiency'.
When you inhale you are starting with a fixed maximum amount of available oxygen (the O2 in the air you breathe). Your lungs are able to absorb some percentage amount of that available oxygen based on your lung capacity. You *can* improve your lung capacity through training.
Next is the oxygen extraction rate in the lungs. What percent of the available oxygen gets absorbed into the bloodstream and what percent gets exhaled out. A 'normal' extraction rate is in the range of 25%-30%. So, a quarter of the oxygen is absorbed and 3/4 exhaled back out. In very healthy/athletic people the extraction rate can be closer to 50%, with a theoretical maximum up around 70%. The more oxygen absorbed the more there is to deliver to the working muscles.
Next is the hemoglobin in the red blood cells that transport the oxygen. More red blood cells improve aerobic capacity (think about the controversies around 'blood doping'). Oxygen debt over time increase red blood cell production.
Next are the capillaries. The density of capillaries in the muscle tissue affect how much oxygen can be delivered to the mitochondria (the powerhouses of muscle fuel). Exercise increases capillary capacity and can ever create new ones. That increases the oxygen available to the muscles.
Lastly, is the mitochondria. The mitochondria are where the energy is produced (the Krebs Cycle). Improving mitochondria density provides more 'energy generators' to use the available oxygen and return the energy by-products to the bloodstream. Mitochondria density can be improved through exercise over time.
Taken all together, improvements result in greater aerobic capacity and efficiency. The more oxygen that is available per heart beat, the greater the oxygen absorption/transport ability, the more capillary pathways into the muscle fiber there are, and the more oxygen you can use in the ATP production in the muscle cell... the lower your heart rate will be at a given unit of work.
In practical terms for training purposes, this translates to: RUN MORE. Mostly easy. Sometimes hard.
be curious; not judgmental
Thanks! I don't generally fixate on HR, but I do like to look at it. I do a good amount of easy miles.
This is an important question for someone trying to get the full affect and benefit from their interval workout. The simple answer would be that if you want to increase the duration of your interval workout, do it at the cool-down more than in the warm-up. You are right that you would don't really want to be fatigued before you start the intervals. Additionally, common strategy for intervals is to not run to failure - leave a little in the tank by the time you do your last one. Then, if you want to do a nice long cool down, it's not going to do much to detract from the adaptations you've gained in the workout. You also ask how to increase your pace while staying in Zone 2. That is a different question. In order to be able to increase the pace you can do and still stay within the zone 2 heart rate, you just need to generally improve. That would be more base miles, more speed work, and just more general adaptation overall. Like Ilanarama said, improvements comes as " your pace at a given HR should improve."
Makes sense. I'll start adding miles to the end from now on.
If you're a beginning runner, your body will improve slightly simply because it can find some biomechanic improvement on its own. If you've been running awhile, then your body has already reached peak running skill. Your HR is attached to your biomechanic efficiency, which unless you change, won't alter either. That's the joke of the 2hr marathon quest that Nike tried last summer. Even with building a giant wall on a vehicle to eliminate wind resistance, along with rotating pace runners (all illegal in competition of course), wasted $4 Million trying to get their elite top runners to break the time barrier. The accomplishment, if successful would have been the sales pitch for the VaporFly. Of course they didn't. So they sell you the shoe telling buyers it'll increase your speed by 4%. The joke of course is that the attempt failed. Why? Because even the elite, if they don't change the way they run, will never run faster... Since they couldn't break the time barrier legitimately, they couldn't do it illegally either. Because the way they ran never changed. Your peak speed is a biomechanic limitation. Unless you impact that, everything else in focus is a waste of time. So you can do all training you want, but to impact your HR for any given speed, or increase your speed for the same energy expenditure, you have to reduce the biomechanic inefficiencies in how you run. If you want to run faster, ask yourself the question why track events are held in counter clockwise rotation and not the other way around? If you don't understand the biomechanic difference between running different direction curves, then every clockwise turn you take over the course of a racing event, will slow you down even more. Erase that skill deficit and of course you'll run faster for the same energy expenditure...
Thanks! I've spent very little time on form because I haven't had many problems with injury - even when running lots of miles a week for many weeks/months in a row. So I've just sort of figured "don't mess with a good thing", but maybe I should spend a bit of time and at least pinpoint any major inefficiencies and see if I can fix them without introducing injury.
Your heart rate is the result of the need to meet the muscle's demand for oxygen. Don't think in terms of 'strength'. Think about 'capacity' and 'efficiency'. When you inhale you are starting with a fixed maximum amount of available oxygen (the O2 in the air you breathe). Your lungs are able to absorb some percentage amount of that available oxygen based on your lung capacity. You *can* improve your lung capacity through training. Next is the oxygen extraction rate in the lungs. What percent of the available oxygen gets absorbed into the bloodstream and what percent gets exhaled out. A 'normal' extraction rate is in the range of 25%-30%. So, a quarter of the oxygen is absorbed and 3/4 exhaled back out. In very healthy/athletic people the extraction rate can be closer to 50%, with a theoretical maximum up around 70%. The more oxygen absorbed the more there is to deliver to the working muscles. Next is the hemoglobin in the red blood cells that transport the oxygen. More red blood cells improve aerobic capacity (think about the controversies around 'blood doping'). Oxygen debt over time increase red blood cell production. Next are the capillaries. The density of capillaries in the muscle tissue affect how much oxygen can be delivered to the mitochondria (the powerhouses of muscle fuel). Exercise increases capillary capacity and can ever create new ones. That increases the oxygen available to the muscles. Lastly, is the mitochondria. The mitochondria are where the energy is produced (the Krebs Cycle). Improving mitochondria density provides more 'energy generators' to use the available oxygen and return the energy by-products to the bloodstream. Mitochondria density can be improved through exercise over time. Taken all together, improvements result in greater aerobic capacity and efficiency. The more oxygen that is available per heart beat, the greater the oxygen absorption/transport ability, the more capillary pathways into the muscle fiber there are, and the more oxygen you can use in the ATP production in the muscle cell... the lower your heart rate will be at a given unit of work. In practical terms for training purposes, this translates to: RUN MORE. Mostly easy. Sometimes hard.
Thanks! Makes sense. I'll just keep at it and hope improvements happen.