Bolt blew it (Read 2037 times)

    I think the best thing would be to regularize the starts, a standardized countdown with lights and horn, as in auto-racing. The sprinters could learn to time the start, but it would be an automatic DQ if one went early. Let's take the "guess when the dude will fire the pistol" factor out of the sprint. This would eliminate the error that no one ever talks about: the long hold.

      I just saw a discussion on Universal Sports.  They think the rule has to be changed before London Olympics.  There's big money lost when the biggest star is lost.

       

      "They" might think it, but it's not going to be changed before the Olympics. (I saw Seb Coe being interviewed earlier today and he said as much.)

      MrH


        This would eliminate the error that no one ever talks about: the long hold.

         

        The Millrose Games was awful for this. I wish the athletes would 'punish' the starter by standing up once the hold gets unreasonable.

        The process is the goal.

        Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.

          Nah.  It's a race not a time trial.  First one there wins.

           

          There's no easy solution.

           

          I know what you're saying but if there is no good solution then why not consider this?  None of them are good.  This is at least quick, fair, and addresses the problem. 

           

          (I would have said make them move the starting blocks back 2 feet but that would take setup time)

          In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

          http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

           

           

           






          Fat butt on couch

            I think the best thing would be to regularize the starts, a standardized countdown with lights and horn, as in auto-racing. The sprinters could learn to time the start, but it would be an automatic DQ if one went early. Let's take the "guess when the dude will fire the pistol" factor out of the sprint. This would eliminate the error that no one ever talks about: the long hold.

             

            Based on rigorous studies they already have a minimum reaction time built in.  If you start before that .05sec or whatever it is, you are charged with a false start regardless of whether anyone saw you go before th gun or not. This does take the "guess when the dude will fire" out of it to a large extent.  Because if you did guess but were slower than the .05 (I don't remember the exact figure offhand), you at least aren't out-reacting other fast people on the line reacting to the actual shot.

             

            In this case, whatever technology they use in the blocks must have failed to register the leg twitch.

             

            MTA:  A refined analysis of what I'm talking about.  Very interesting to see what goes on behind the curtain with the blocks and timing equipment.  The reaction time is 0.1sec, though this article indicates lower than 0.12 is probably jumping as well.

            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

             

              Based on rigorous studies they already have a minimum reaction time built in.  If you start before that .05sec or whatever it is, you are charged with a false start regardless of whether anyone saw you go before th gun or not. This does take the "guess when the dude will fire" out of it to a large extent.  Because if you did guess but were slower than the .05 (I don't remember the exact figure offhand), you at least aren't out-reacting other fast people on the line reacting to the actual shot.

               

              In this case, whatever technology they use in the blocks must have failed to register the leg twitch.

               

              MTA:  A refined analysis of what I'm talking about.  Very interesting to see what goes on behind the curtain with the blocks and timing equipment.  The reaction time is 0.1sec, though this article indicates lower than 0.12 is probably jumping as well.

               

              Yeah, I know this. But if you went to a standardized countdown, you wouldn't have to build in a minimum reaction time. Sprinters could time it, and as long as they left after the light went off, they would be good to go. It would be fair and it would take the idiosyncrasies of individual starters out of the mix.


              Fat butt on couch

                Yeah, I know this. But if you went to a standardized countdown, you wouldn't have to build in a minimum reaction time. Sprinters could time it, and as long as they left after the light went off, they would be good to go. It would be fair and it would take the idiosyncrasies of individual starters out of the mix.

                 

                The winning margins of 100m races are often within the realm of the difference between a fair start based off reacting to the sound of the gun and a false start by guessing well (see link I posted for concrete examples).  You are saying that rather than making sure everyone is actually reacting to the gun sound and leaving fairly, you'd rather leave it up to how well they guess the lights? The issue with the reaction time is exactly the same.

                 

                The long hold is there to make sure they are actually reacting to the starting gun, and non guess-timing shenanigans.  It is supposed to be unpredicatable.  If they are not jumping the gun, it should not be a problem.

                 

                Besides, how would drag-style lights have solved anything?  We could still have had this exact same scenario.

                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                 


                  The long hold is there to make sure they are actually reacting to the starting gun, and non guess-timing shenanigans.  It is supposed to be unpredicatable.  If they are not jumping the gun, it should not be a problem.

                   

                  Besides, how would drag-style lights have solved anything?  We could still have had this exact same scenario.

                   

                   

                  The drag-style lights would take the unpredictability out of the equation. That's what they would solve.

                   

                  The guy who times the lights best gets the best start. Sounds fair to me. Since the lights would be at the same rate every single time, immediate disqualification would be justified if a sprinter jumped. So, yeah we could end up with this same situation, but I believe it would be much rarer since the standardization would take the anxiety of the start out of the situation, let the runners concentrate on running fast.


                  A Dance with Monkeys

                    Shouldn't part of the competition be and ability to react correctly to the gun?

                      No doubt.  Which is why the zero-tolerance false start rule should be reviewed.  Nobody got a second chance: not the officials, not the fastest man in history, not the fans.  It was a lose, lose, lose.  Well, except for Blake who is now a World Champion.

                       

                      I'd hate to return to the days when it took 15 minutes to start a 100m final, but that would still be better than this--losing the sports biggest star to a bad call.

                       

                      Yesterday my wife and sister-in-law, who have no interest in T&F, watched the race with me.  They wanted to see Bolt.  It has been a long time since someone has done this for the sport. 

                      "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                        Shouldn't part of the competition be and ability to react correctly to the gun?

                         

                        Wouldn't my plan also include ability to react to the gun as a part of the race?

                          I don't know if I go for the whole drag race style lights and such but I do think some standards as to the time between "set" and the gun are in order. I think it was Tyson Gay who suggested they make the gun automatic--so when the starter says "set" he pulls the trigger at the same time.  Then after some standard delay the gun fires unless the starter releases the trigger (such as in the case when he wants all the runners to stand up and start over.)

                           

                          It still doesn't solve the problem of the zero tolerance rule but it would probably make false starts less likely.  I think they should go back to the first false start goes to the field rule and go with the standard delay between set and gun.  That has its issues too but it's better than the current system.

                          Runners run.


                          A Dance with Monkeys

                            Not as I understand it.  If the lights are standardized and predictable, then the sprinter will know when the green light will fire based on timing, not as a reaction to seeing it.

                              Not as I understand it.  If the lights are standardized and predictable, then the sprinter will know when the green light will fire based on timing, not as a reaction to seeing it.

                               

                              Yes, that's the primary change. Sprinters would time the start, not react to the gun. It would change the event slightly, but I also believe this system or one like what Mikey proposed (which would have precisely the same issue) would do a lot to resolve the problem at hand, which is how to create a system where people don't just false start forever or get disqualified the first time they jump.

                               

                              I guess I see the 100m as answering the question of who's the fastest runner over 100m. You need a fair start that creates equality in order to answer that question. 

                                I guess I see the 100m as answering the question of who's the fastest runner over 100m. You need a fair start that creates equality in order to answer that question. 

                                 

                                +1.  There may be some really fast sprinters out there that can't compete now because they have slow reactions.  If you take that out of the equation it becomes all about running fast.