Bolt blew it (Read 2037 times)

    The rule would still need to be there, otherwise false starts would become even more commonplace.

     

    Yes, absolutely. I don't think I said otherwise. My first posts were clear on this.


    HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

      We start races with predictable timing, when we start races -- either road or track.

       

      We tell the field what we're going to say, e.g.: The commands will be "Get set, and then the G-word". For gun starts, we put one arm up, then both arms up, then fire the gun. We try to be predictably even in our timing, so the field knows about when the next action or word will come.

       

      If we had an automated timing system, I suppose we would use predictable timing with it too.

       

      Of course we're just amateur hobbyjoggers. We just do it this way because it seems to sensible way to do it -- not because of any deep-seated beliefs in this apparently religious war about whether the race is over reaction times or running speed. We never had any discussion along those lines -- I suppose the issue never occurred to us uneducated amateurs.

      It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

         apparently religious war 

         

        This is what I don't get. It's not a war, it's a discussion. What the hell. Why can't we disagree and explain our positions without being accused of being ideological nuts.

         

        (MTA: this discussion of starts is a moot point in races over, say 400m. It's not that you are indifferent to this because you are hobbyjoggers, it's that you are distance runners.)


        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

          This is what I don't get. It's not a war, it's a discussion. What the hell. Why can't we disagree and explain our positions without being accused of being ideological nuts.

           

          Ah. Misunderstanding. When I said "religious war", I meant as in the "vi vs. emacs" sense -- a traditional use of the term referring to a classic debate over better means to a particular end (vi and emacs are long-established text editors). 

           

          You can't expect me to think that readers might read "religious" as actually referring to "religion". Heh.

           

          (PS: We don't use gun starts for 400m -- we only use them for shorter distances. But you're quite correct that we're distance hobby joggers.)

          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

            Ah. Misunderstanding. When I said "religious war", I meant as in the "vi vs. emacs" sense -- a traditional use of the term referring to a classic debate over better means to a particular end (vi and emacs are long-established text editors). 

             

            You can't expect me to think that readers might read "religious" as actually referring to "religion". Heh.

             

            Of course I didn't read you literally, but I thought I understood your point, which was something like: "you people seem overly attached to unimportant and irresolvable positions." I personally am procrastinating a paper, which is why I'm spending so much time on this. 

             

            (to your P.S. I misunderstood. This is not an issue for you then because you aren't deciding the winners by hundredths of seconds. But surely you can see why these issues would be important in a world championship event, right?)


              A Dance with Monkeys

                Jeff, if you are going to procrastinate writing a paper, procrastinate over writing my paper.


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  I don't think the differences between vi and emacs should be classed as unimportant -- whether they are irresolvable is another question. They involve user productivity and, I think, can be significant.

                   

                  However, if you're the administrator throwing together a system, and you're unaware of the religious wars involved in text editors, and you slap one in, you may well be surprised to find people complaining that you just slapped one in, without paying attention to the other choices involved.

                   

                  I suppose there is a straightforward analogy to the actions I described earlier -- we were unaware there were issues involved with starting times, and had never heard anyone argue for unpredictable starting delays -- so we just slap in the system that was obvious to us -- predictable timing.

                   

                  Of course, when your participants are not using starting blocks, or perhaps even cleats, the chance that they care about unpredictable starting timing is probably a lot less...  (Yeah, this goes back to them being distance runners, not sprinters.)

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                    I don't think the differences between vi and emacs should be classed as unimportant -- whether they are irresolvable is another question. They involve user productivity and, I think, can be significant.

                     

                    However, if you're the administrator throwing together a system, and you're unaware of the religious wars involved in text editors, and you slap one in, you may well be surprised to find people complaining that you just slapped one in, without paying attention to the other choices involved.

                     

                    I suppose there is a straightforward analogy to the actions I described earlier -- we were unaware there were issues involved with starting times, and had never heard anyone argue for unpredictable starting delays -- so we just slap in the system that was obvious to us -- predictable timing.

                     

                    Of course, when your participants are not using starting blocks, or perhaps even cleats, the chance that they care about unpredictable starting timing is probably a lot less...  (Yeah, this goes back to them being distance runners, not sprinters.)

                     

                    Ah that makes sense to me. My bad. I think I misunderstood you all the way through.

                      Brings new meaning to the expression " Bolt from the blew blue"Clown

                       

                      I resisted the urge to title this "Bolt Bolted."

                      Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                        Good discussion.  All this said, it sure didn't feel good to see the world's fastest runner forced to walk off the track, and be left to watch something of a lesser race.

                        Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                          Can't resist.

                          Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                            Blake's flinch may have set him off.

                             

                            Then what constitutes a flinch becomes a judgment call.  Living humans move, even when they are "required" to be still.  Blake's movement was almost infinitesimal.

                            Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                              What about that zero-tolerance rule?

                               

                              I don't think there is really much of a difference between one-for-the-field and zero-tolerance in false starts.  From what I remember from running track, if there was a free false start to be had, it was taken.  Either you were trying to get a better start and jumped the gun or you knew you had a free one to burn and jumped it on purpose.  The net result is the same; typically someone burned the free false start.  At that point the race became a one-and-done and you cut the shenanigans. 

                               

                              But I also recall being in the slower heats, so there wasn't much shenanigans to be had.  

                               

                              As for Bolt - if anyone can make up for a bad start it's him.  Close your eyes and listen for the gun. 


                              HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                                So this seems to me like an interesting question -- not sure if it can be debated rationally, or if  it is more of an axiomatic issue -- is the race about who can react fastest to an unknown start time and get to the finish line, or who can accelerate fastest and get  to the finish line?

                                 

                                How do they start swim events?

                                It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.