Forums >Racing>2018 Boston Marathon Thread
Are we there, yet?
Ah, the good old, “wasn’t in the elite start, but had an elite finish” story strikes again. The fifth place male at Boston got $15,000, the fifth place female at Boston got a hearty congratulations. https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein/boston-marathon-women-prize-money?utm_term=.mmbR73RlM#.mkLdqnd5B
Ah, the good old, “wasn’t in the elite start, but had an elite finish” story strikes again. The fifth place male at Boston got $15,000, the fifth place female at Boston got a hearty congratulations.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/juliareinstein/boston-marathon-women-prize-money?utm_term=.mmbR73RlM#.mkLdqnd5B
Boston and other marathons with separate elite women starts definitely need to expand the number of women allowed in the elite field to avoid that sort of occurrence, but I'd also like to remind people of the history of women in the marathon, When women were first allowed in the NYC marathon, the AAU and marathon organizers required that they start 10 minutes before the men. (a separate starting line would have satisfied them also.) When the gun fired for the women's start there was a sit down strike. They would not budge until they could also start with the men. RW article Sole Sister of '72 Of course they could also equal things out by starting the elite men 30 minutes before the mass start, though that would drag out the day even longer for the volunteers and officials.
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For some of these women they would have still placed based on gun time. The gun time for Wave 1. The gun does go off before each wave and I think they would have started close enough to the front to not have that much of a difference between the gun time and their net time.
"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means." * "Gun time", like "dialing" a phone number, doesn't refer to the physical action any more. "Gun time" refers to when the race begins, for the elite women that would be 9:32 AM, for the elite men and the rest of the field "gun time" begins at 10:00 AM.
So, to put it another way, if you want to win prize money you have to be in the first 15 women or 15 men to cross the finish line. Unless your Barry Allen*, this is unlikely to happen if you aren't in wave 1 for men or for any non-elite woman.
*First quote is from The Princess Bride and Barry Allen refers to The Flash
Ray
My hot take, because I know you're all dying for me to weigh in:
1. The elite women's start, though not perfect, is far better than the way things used to be as far as providing a fair race and appropriate coverage for the elite female athletes.
2. The BAA should just pay her and any other woman whose time was fast enough to have placed them in the money. They can sure as hell afford it.
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Mother of Cats
Boston and other marathons with separate elite women starts definitely need to expand the number of women allowed in the elite field to avoid that sort of occurrence,
Do we know for a fact that she WASN'T allowed in the elite women's start?
From the website:
"Open and masters division women who consider themselves eligible for prize money in the Boston Marathon must declare themselves as a contestant for the EWS start. They may email ews@baa.org for further details on format, eligibility, regulations, and instructions. Race officials can assist in determining which start - EWS or 10:00 a.m. - is most appropriate. Prize money will be awarded to contestants in the EWS only. Women who choose not to start in the EWS waive the right to compete for prize money."
There is a definite disadvantage to starting in the EWS wave. I know of at least one friend who was invited but declined, because she was concerned more about her time than potential prize money.
I think the rules are very clear, and she should not get cash. Especially with this year's weather, you really can't compare starting in the EWS with starting in Wave 1. Two completely different races.
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Yes, she just missed qualifying for the EWS.
OK - if she asked to get in and they didn't let her, that's a different story.
Kalsarikännit
My hot take, because I know you're all dying for me to weigh in: appropriate coverage for the elite female athletes.
appropriate coverage for the elite female athletes.
1. No
2. Yes
This goes back a while and was a factor in creating an early elite start is getting these women away from the miserable tv time stealing sub-elite males. This is when they have the time to get away from trolling LR message boards and being the worst ambassadors for our sport from their moms’ basements.
I propose banning all 2:25-2:49 males.
I want to do it because I want to do it. -Amelia Earhart
must declare themselves as a contestant
You are missing a big point. Men don’t need to declare themselves to be in this thing. They register for a race.
And I really get the point about facing your competition head to head. You can’t battle to the finish with a ghost that will be done after you. That isn’t right, either.
A lot about these early women’s starts just stinks though. A woman lost out on a bunch of money a few years back around Tahoe, IIRC. She didn’t declare as elite because she had been close but never broke 3. That day she did, but her competition didn’t. She said that she didn’t feel she was elite, BECAUSE SHE WASN’T. Paula ran a 2:15. They penalized a 3:03(ish) runner for not labeling herself as an “elite” runner.
Something needs to be fixed.
"You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means." * "Gun time", like "dialing" a phone number, doesn't refer to the physical action any more. "Gun time" refers to when the race begins, for the elite women that would be 9:32 AM, for the elite men and the rest of the field "gun time" begins at 10:00 AM. So, to put it another way, if you want to win prize money you have to be in the first 15 women or 15 men to cross the finish line. Unless your Barry Allen*, this is unlikely to happen if you aren't in wave 1 for men or for any non-elite woman. *First quote is from The Princess Bride and Barry Allen refers to The Flash
Funny, my results have a "gun time" and a "chip time" The "gun time" for my results corresponds to when the gun went off at the start of my wave, not the time the gun went off for the 10:00 elite runner start.
I guess B.A.A. must not know what gun time is either. You need to edumacate them on that.
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http://raceday.baa.org/individual.html
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They will list a net finish time and a gun finish time for the 5th place finisher...
I'll give you a hint, the gun finish time isn't based on the 9:32 elite women's start.
Ok, I'm wrong about BAA's "gun time". I guess I don't run that many big races, but SF Marathon gun time is from start of race and not start of wave. And reading the official rules, as Wrigley Girl points out, women have to be in the elite runners to get prize money. Although, for men to receive the prize money I believe you still have to be in the first 15 men to cross the line to get any. If I'm reading the results correctly, Yuki Kauwachi was the second person to cross the finish line - only Desi Linden crossed the line ahead of him, and if he were female wouldn't have received any money! And, we can conclude that the FAQ is actually wrong on how prizes are awarded.
I believe the following is the official rules from the USATF (maybe not official, but goes into depth to explain and the reasons behind "gun time") http://oklahoma.usatf.org/usatf_assoc_27/files/fd/fdee22d8-8880-4381-9fd8-bca91403b86f.doc
This would seem to indicate that BAA's definition of "gun time" is, if not wrong, in violation of the spirit of competition that seems important to USATF. So, I will stand by my "general" definition of "gun time" and just agree that BAA's definition of "gun time" is different.
I will agree with that. For sure the B.A.A.'s FAQ is misleading if nothing else.
The statement on their website about women having to declare for the EWS to be eligible for prize money isn't though.
Technically a woman could start with the elite men in wave 1 and pass all the women and beat them by 28 minutes and still not get any prize money.
I will agree with that. For sure the B.A.A.'s FAQ is misleading if nothing else. The statement on their website about women having to declare for the EWS to be eligible for prize money isn't though. Technically a woman could start with the elite men in wave 1 and pass all the women and beat them by 28 minutes and still not get any prize money.
It is a race and needs to go by gun time. How can the leader react to something that they don't have a chance to react to. It is not the BAA's responsibility to educate people about the rules of racing.
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It's a race and needs to go by finish order. Time (whether gun or net) is irrelevant.
It IS up to the BAA to not post confusing shit on its website.
double post