2011 Goal of Sub-3:00 Marathon (Read 7999 times)

Schmize


    OK - I said I would report back with my 1/2 marathon and I went all out.  The result wasn't what I expected (1:27:00), but now that I have had some time to digest, its not that bad.  It was a crushed limestone trail, and was somewhat hilly (so is NYC), and there was wind in our face coming back (out and back), and I ran 27.6 miles 6 days before the race [enough excuses, huh?].  So, question for you guys who have run on crushed limestone.  Does it slow you down at all?  I just felt like I couldn't run normally?   I was gassed at the end, and a 1:27 on mcmillan is a 3:03, on Daniels, its a 3:01.  So, I am in the ball park, but not sure I am playing at this point...  One more week of some volume, and then I taper down....


    Spring- wishful thinking

      2:54:46 - Chicago Marathon.  Here is my pseudo race report...

       

      Started off around 65 degrees and ended around 73 when I finished.  I decided to go for 2:55 instead of 2:53 because of the predicted temps. Heat wasn't bad because humidity was low, so I took the first miles faster than 6:40 pace and figured I'd slow down when I needed to.  Felt really good the first 8 or so miles which was shaded and cool, then started to get a little fatigue/hot.  I was surprised at how early I felt fatigue, but I decided to push through and the miles flew by.  I really enjoyed the first 16 or so miles, strangely enough I was really enjoying just clocking some fast miles (for me anyway).  Around 18 fatigue started to fit in and I was wondering if I would blow up by mile 20 in the race. 

      By 20 miles my lungs started to burn and the legs drained, but I figured I could push it for a few more, maybe till the end and I would find out when I had nothing left.  Around 22 I felt like I got a second wind (wasn't looking at the watch) but just pushed it as hard as I could, through the rest.  The last 800 yards I can normally get some kind of kick, but this time I didn't have anything left to give.  Overall, pretty happy with the race, a PR maybe not exactly what I wanted, but pretty happy with it.

        Congrats flatfooter, looking forward to the race report.

        Colonial 200 Relay Sep 20-21 -

        Smithfield Hog Jog 5K 12 Oct -


        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

          I thought I'd never be able to go as fast as 3:00, but after a good race last week, I'm starting to toy with the idea. But I'm not ready to commit yet -- esp. seeing reports of people rolling 6:40s happily - that sounds sooo fast for a marathon.

          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


          Spring- wishful thinking

            I thought I'd never be able to go as fast as 3:00, but after a good race last week, I'm starting to toy with the idea. But I'm not ready to commit yet -- esp. seeing reports of people rolling 6:40s happily - that sounds sooo fast for a marathon.

             

            You can do it.  Your 5K PR is way better than mine is and you are consistently running them pretty fast.  Running miles at pace during the long run really helps with the confidence, that and a good half marathon PR.


            Are we there yet?

              OK - I said I would report back with my 1/2 marathon and I went all out.  The result wasn't what I expected (1:27:00), but now that I have had some time to digest, its not that bad.  It was a crushed limestone trail, and was somewhat hilly (so is NYC), and there was wind in our face coming back (out and back), and I ran 27.6 miles 6 days before the race [enough excuses, huh?].  So, question for you guys who have run on crushed limestone.  Does it slow you down at all?  I just felt like I couldn't run normally?   I was gassed at the end, and a 1:27 on mcmillan is a 3:03, on Daniels, its a 3:01.  So, I am in the ball park, but not sure I am playing at this point...  One more week of some volume, and then I taper down....

               

              I ran a 1:27 HM in Hilly ATL10/3 before NYC 11/7 last year and ran a 3:06 in NYC. I was coming off a surgery in July, so perhaps thats not a good gauge.. NYC is sneaky hilly as opposed to Boston blatantly hilly.. I like the math of HM x 2 + 12 minutes = Marathon time. This seems to hold fairly true give or take a few minutes. Then there are anomalies like DB.. that throw the math out the window.

               

              great PR flatfooter!!


              I'm back!

                OK - I said I would report back with my 1/2 marathon and I went all out.  The result wasn't what I expected (1:27:00), but now that I have had some time to digest, its not that bad.  It was a crushed limestone trail, and was somewhat hilly (so is NYC), and there was wind in our face coming back (out and back), and I ran 27.6 miles 6 days before the race [enough excuses, huh?].  So, question for you guys who have run on crushed limestone.  Does it slow you down at all?  I just felt like I couldn't run normally?   I was gassed at the end, and a 1:27 on mcmillan is a 3:03, on Daniels, its a 3:01.  So, I am in the ball park, but not sure I am playing at this point...  One more week of some volume, and then I taper down....

                 

                FWIW I ran my first sub-3 (Boston) off a 1:26:35 on a moderately fast road course. You're in the ballpark. Personally, though, I think New York is slower than Boston (run correctly).

                 

                Yes, a gravel trail will slow you down, maybe 5 sec/mile? Choosing a pace for NY sounds like a tough decision. If sub-3 is a big goal for you, I would go for it. 

                DoppleBock


                  Flatfooter - Great Race ... Congrats

                   

                  With your ability - It will not be a huge jump to < 2:50

                   

                  More just a matter of staying healthy to get a good block of training in!

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   

                  DoppleBock


                    Once you have trained your mind ... you will be ready

                     

                    When will you start to train your mind? 

                     

                    I thought I'd never be able to go as fast as 3:00, but after a good race last week, I'm starting to toy with the idea. But I'm not ready to commit yet -- esp. seeing reports of people rolling 6:40s happily - that sounds sooo fast for a marathon.

                    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                     

                      Congrats Flatfooter!  Congrats!!!

                        Great Race Flatfooter.  Congrats!

                         

                        5:47 opening mile pace?


                        Spring- wishful thinking

                          Great Race Flatfooter.  Congrats!

                           

                          5:47 opening mile pace?

                           

                          It looks like that if you trust the gps, but I was hitting the lap button at the mile markers. The gps was freaking out under the bridges and reporting the miles as too long. The first mile was around a 6:30. Still to fast but definitely not a sub 6:00. I
                          Schmize


                            Chaka - Yes, that is probably reality (1/2 mary + 12), but I keep thinking of all the reasons why it could have been faster.

                            Bhearn - Thanks for that example, as well.  My half full side keeps thinking I can pull it off.

                             

                            DB - What a great question!  As you can see by the examples above, I can go either way with this.  I need to train my mind to believe.  I have the fear of blowing up (hell, I did that in the half, considering my last 1.1 miles were 6:16, I really had too much gas). And I have back up goals, that I keep falling back on (3:03 is my running pal's PR, and 3:05 is still a good time).  How do you recommend training the mind?   I have some Yasso 800s that I am doing on Wednesday, and I know its just another "test" and many don't buy into it, but my hope is to do them very well, and it gets my mind to say "wtf" and just go out and do it on Nov. 6th.  Thoughts?  How have you done it or how do you do it?

                              How did your 27+ mile training run go? That was pretty impressive at a 7:40 pace. Even the Half you just ran was very nice. Why did you keep the 6:30-40 pace so late in the race if you had lots left in the tank? And, dont fear the wall. Embrace it. The last 10k+/- of the marathon are going to suck. It just is. So, when it tries to knock you down, punch back a little. Progression runs are great for this. Or try a long warmup, about an hour, then knock back a tempo run. These runs give me tons of confidence.

                               

                              Fwiw, my magic eight ball says that you are around a 2:57-58 marathon.

                              Dont call it a comeback

                              DoppleBock


                                Now that is a good question - I never really understood the amount of pain I could handle until Houston 2006.  I was stubborn and was after a < 2:44.  It was hard even by mile #3 and finally I had to relent at mile #18.  I really thought I was going to face a slow death.  Now I was holding on to 6:30s and by mile #20 - I was mentally done.  But then some guy passes me and I decide I am going to keep up with him until mile #26 and then beat him.  It was the most pain I had ever endured in running a race (up until then), but I tagged him, damn it if I could run 1 more step, why not 10-100, 1 more mile etc.  At mile # 26, I willed another gear and beat him by 10+ seconds.

                                 

                                I had not been able to keep pace after 16, but I did manage

                                20 in 2:07 (6:21)

                                Last 6 in @ 40 minutes (6:30)

                                 

                                So I learned 2 things:  1 The human body can handle huge amounts of pain if the mind is willing to force it to and 2)  Even if you are fried, you do not have to die, you can still manage a reasonable race at a slightly slower pace if you can do #1

                                 

                                I think the other thing that helps me is the way I do most speed work ... as part of long runs 18-22 miles.  I calculate how many miles I will need for speed ... say 8, then run 10-14 mile warm up.

                                 

                                Where my mind is weak to push my body is usually < mile 20 of a marathon.  I have proven multiple times to myself if I can get to mile #20 on pace - I can handle the pain to push it home.  Before mile # 20 I seem to always have the self conversation:  "Do you really want this much pain? ... You could just mail it in and fake it home"  Sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes no.

                                 

                                Of course we all think we are tough and can handle more pain then other people - But reality it is not true.  I know when I work hard and I know when I cruise it in and I know when I have left nothing on the course.  I can not push that hard every time - There is a certain mental committment that must be backing your belief in your mental toughness.  Sometimes the committment comes from a time goal, beating a person goal or committment to a team.

                                 

                                As I get older and run more races, I find it harder and harder to acheive the ultimate mental committment to take the highest level of pain.  I have found it only three times in recent years:  2010 World 24 hour championship (Team mentality), 2010 Milwaukee Lakefront Marathon (Time goal - Breaking 3 when not in shape - perfect day) and 2009 Monkey Marathon (Beating a friend).  I was really close at 2011 Grandmas.  Before 2009 it was a more common event in shorter or longer races.

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 How do you recommend training the mind?

                                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35