The COVID-19 Wild West Thread (Read 551 times)

wcrunner2


I'm out of ideas

     Imagine the freedom you’d have if you could do what you wanted.

     

    Imagine the chaos and anarchy if you could do what you wanted.

     

    2021 Races:

         TBD - 6-hour

         TBD - 12-hour

         TBD - 50K

         TBD - 24-hour (maybe)

     

    Julia1971


       

      This all is based on my taking Torts back in 1997.  I am not a personal injury lawyer.  If anyone here is, please chime in and correct me if appropriate.

       

      Also not a lawyer but my guess is that this is more of an issue about an employee catching COVID from a customer.  I believe there has been some litigation over employers requirement to provide employees a safe working environment.  (See second heading here from the law firm with the best URL ever.  I believe OSHA has also issued guidance in this regard.)  And therefore, the employer might chose to have maskless people removed for trespassing to protect their employees/themselves from a lawsuit.

       

      (Edited to add: LexMachina has a COVID Litigation Tracker.  There is a heading for torts if you're curious.)

        This is promising:

        https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/16/health/Covid-moderna-vaccine.html

         

        94% effective and survives 30 days at refrigerator temperatures.

        Runners run.

        Half Crazy K 2.0


          Also, not a lawyer, communications & business law classes seemed to focus more on libel vs slander than anything else. Anyway, could the maskless people be sued for loss of business? I assume this would be civil? So if you have to close the store down for X hours, plus pay for a cleaning, can this be passed on to the maskholes?

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

             

            Imagine the chaos and anarchy if you could do what you wanted.

            Me and thousands others could march on freeways and stop traffic. The insanity!

            2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Except they won’t let anyone look at their data. Kind of important otherwise you can make all the claims you want. Kind of like claiming to run a BQ yet never Letting people see when you crossed timing mats.

               

              This is promising:

              https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/16/health/Covid-moderna-vaccine.html

               

              94% effective and survives 30 days at refrigerator temperatures.

              2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                 can this be passed on to the maskholes?

                 

                I think they prefer the more politically correct term of mask debaters.

                 

                 

                 

                 

                dhuffman63


                Trails

                  I call them Typhoid Mary's since they are probably passing around a deadly disease.  Then I tell them I hope God has mercy on their soul if they should kill someone and they are murderers.  I'm no longer angry but feel they must have sad and pitiful lives if they can't do something simple as wear a mask to protect other people.

                  Running Problem


                  Problem Child

                     

                    Also not a lawyer but my guess is that this is more of an issue about an employee catching COVID from a customer.  I believe there has been some litigation over employers requirement to provide employees a safe working environment.  (See second heading here from the law firm with the best URL ever.  I believe OSHA has also issued guidance in this regard.)  And therefore, the employer might chose to have maskless people removed for trespassing to protect their employees/themselves from a lawsuit.

                     

                    (Edited to add: LexMachina has a COVID Litigation Tracker.  There is a heading for torts if you're curious.)

                     

                    This sounds like it's going to take a lot of time, and as darkwave said....if you win against someone with no money what are you going to do? How much time are you going to spend going after people who caused you to close your business for a day? How much is it going to cost you to find out who all those people are? I'd rather see a business go after a Governor (and win) for shutting them down due to COVID 19 guidelines yet allowing McDonalds, BJ Brewhouse, Starbucks, Subway, etc. serve food and drink to go.

                    2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.

                    darkwave


                    Mother of Cats

                       

                      Also not a lawyer but my guess is that this is more of an issue about an employee catching COVID from a customer.  I believe there has been some litigation over employers requirement to provide employees a safe working environment.  (See second heading here from the law firm with the best URL ever.  I believe OSHA has also issued guidance in this regard.)  And therefore, the employer might chose to have maskless people removed for trespassing to protect their employees/themselves from a lawsuit.

                       

                      (Edited to add: LexMachina has a COVID Litigation Tracker.  There is a heading for torts if you're curious.)

                       

                      So....there is a distinction between:

                       

                      scenario 1) customer A in a store claiming they caught Covid from customer B in the store, and customer A suing customer B (the hypothetical initially presented).

                       

                      scenario 2) an employee suing their workplace if they catch Covid (raising OSHA and workers comp issues among others).

                       

                      In the second scenario, there are things like OSHA (which would not apply to the first hypothetical).  Also, some states have enacted legislation that creates a legal presumption that an employee caught Covid at work - see here for a discussion of a California bill

                      creating a presumption that COVID was caught on the job for certain employees.

                       

                      That legal presumption gets those employees over the hump of having to prove how they caught COVID - the exact same hump that makes the initial hypothetical (that customer A caught Covid from customer B) so hard to argue successfully, since there is not a similar legal presumption in that case.

                      Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                       

                      And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                      Julia1971


                         

                        So....there is a distinction between:

                         

                        scenario 1) customer A in a store claiming they caught Covid from customer B in the store, and customer A suing customer B (the hypothetical initially presented).

                         

                        scenario 2) an employee suing their workplace if they catch Covid (raising OSHA and workers comp issues among others).

                         

                        In the second scenario, there are things like OSHA (which would not apply to the first hypothetical).  Also, some states have enacted legislation that creates a legal presumption that an employee caught Covid at work - see here for a discussion of a California bill

                        creating a presumption that COVID was caught on the job for certain employees.

                         

                        That legal presumption gets those employees over the hump of having to prove how they caught COVID - the exact same hump that makes the initial hypothetical (that customer A caught Covid from customer B) so hard to argue successfully, since there is not a similar legal presumption in that case.

                         

                        Agreed.  I was dismissing scenario 1 and agreeing with you that Cstomer A going after Customer B is probably not a winning strategy...  I am an avid People's Court watcher and in bed bug cases, Judge Milan always tells people the bed bugs don't tell you who brought them into the apartment.  Similarly, the virus isn't going to tell you it came from another customer in the store and not, for example, an employee of the store or the dozens of people you may have encountered on your way to the store.

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                           

                          Agreed.  I was dismissing scenario 1 and agreeing with you that Cstomer A going after Customer B is probably not a winning strategy...  I am an avid People's Court watcher and in bed bug cases, Judge Milan always tells people the bed bugs don't tell you who brought them into the apartment.  Similarly, the virus isn't going to tell you it came from another customer in the store and not, for example, an employee of the store or the dozens of people you may have encountered on your way to the store.

                           

                          Ah - got it.  I read too fast!

                           

                          If only viruses were watermarked or similar.

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          Teresadfp


                          One day at a time

                             

                            Ah - got it.  I read too fast!

                             

                            If only viruses were watermarked or similar.

                             

                            Or at least they could be glittery so they would show up.

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                               

                              Or at least they could be glittery so they would show up.

                               

                              Even better if they sang show tunes and tossed glitter as they rolled towards one...  

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                                 That legal presumption gets those employees over the hump of having to prove how they caught COVID - the exact same hump that makes the initial hypothetical (that customer A caught Covid from customer B) so hard to argue successfully, since there is not a similar legal presumption in that case.

                                 

                                If A and B have been tested, then you can actually take their test samples and determine if 1. the strains of corona virus are related and 2. which one is the ancestor.

                                 

                                NY Times actually did this type of analysis on some of its and other reporters who cover the Whitehouse and came down with Covid-19. They didn't have access to tests of government officials and guests, but those analyzing the DNA evidence had some interesting comments.  It is a way to trace the spread with people who may not be honest/forth coming with contact tracing...


                                Ray