12

How important is a long run? (Read 1166 times)


I run for Fried Chicken!

    So I'm wondering, how important is a long run? I don't have a particular race I'm training for. Just trying to run a lot so I can get faster in general. In particular for the 5k and 10k distance for now. Maybe longer distances in the future. I try to run every chance I get and most of my runs are easy runs for 4-7 miles. I tend to get lazy and I'd rather run 5 miles 2 days in a row than one 10 mile run. Occasionally, I'll run an 8-10 mile run, but those are rare. Should I start adding a long run to my schedule?


    Giants Fan

      You said you are running to get faster in general...I believe the LSD run plays a part in that. The more I've run as far as distance, the faster I've naturally gotten at shorter distances. Now how long your long run is depends on your weekly mileage, etc. Good luck!

      "I think I've discovered the secret of life- you just hang around until you get used to it."

      Charles Schulz

      protoplasm72


        You can certainly get faster without doing a long run but it's definitely going to help you if you do one. I would do it just for the variety as running about the same distance at the same pace for a long time will get boring and lead to a plateau in your performance.

        Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose; it's how drunk you get. -- Homer Simpson

          Personally I think 5-8 miles is great for a 5k and 8-10 is perfect for a 10k. No real need to increase unless you want to run some longer races.


          A Saucy Wench

            I agree with midwest - the long slow run at distances significantly longer than your goal race help your speed immensely. My 10K times started coming down fast when I had long runs in the 12-14 mile range. MTA: they dont have to be everyweek. If I was training for shorter distances I would probably do either alternate week long runs or what works for me is 8-10-12-10-12-14--8-etc. rampup, step back , ramp up , step back.

            I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

             

            "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

              You can certainly "run well" without doing any long run or not much total mileage at all. When you look at the history of the sport, that's pretty much what people did in the 1930~50s. They didn't do too shabby at all. When you get out and start running for the first time, one of the first things you'd notice is that you puff a lot harder; you breathe un-naturally. This is because your body's ability to retain oxygen, which determines the level of workload (=how fast you can run aerobically). As you run more, your body's ability to retain oxygen would increase. When this happens, the thing you would notice is now you can run faster and further. Your body's ability to retain oxygen, more commonly known as your VO2Max or your oxygen uptake level, is basically identified as (1) how much oxygen your body can take into your body; (2) how much of oxygen your body can transport to your working muscles (your circulatory development) and (3) how much of that oxygen your muscles can utilize in the working muscles. Particularly (3), it is a very even specific development. Take Lance Armstrong, for example; he is a great cyclist. He has run marathons, and some odd road races, very well but certainly not at the same level as his cycling. One of the main reasons, even though he probably has freakishly high VO2Max, indicating his great potential to do well in distance running, is this event specificity. This is largely determined with the development of capillary beds in the working muscles as well as development of mitcondria. These two are directly corresponding with the duration of the workout; running. Interestingly, it would not even matter what level of effort you'd do these long runs; as long as you spend certain length of time on your feet. Of course, there's no one workout that determines the level of end performance level. Improving one's performance is a very intermingling event and there are lots of elements that work together to be developed. But when we talk about development of, to put it short, aerobic capacity; one of the best way to do so is to do long runs at easy effort. It has to be done nice and easily; otherwise you might have to stop the workout prematurely--in other words, you'd get tired and call it a quit 3/4 of the way. There is certainly a point of no-return...to a degree; but, let's say if you go out and run, say, 1:30 twice a week, and I wouldn't care basically what you might do in between so long as you'd do something instead of laying around and doing nothing; after a month or so, you'll feel very strong. In other words, now you can run further and faster aerobically. This is when people might say, "Gosh, all I did was conditioning and, with no speed training what-so-ever, I ran my PR in 5k..." Once again, there are a lot more involved in running fast and just getting out and doing lots of long runs is not one solution; you'll need to balance your program. When you look at some other running message board and read something like; "Man, is it best to do lots of high mileage?" and some other people might say, "It's rubbish; I did 10 weeks of 80MPW and didn't improve my time..." That's what happens; this person most probably didn't balance his program. But the point is; you do lots of long runs and you'll get super fit. Now you can do lots of more race-specific workouts. If improving your performance is your goal, remember that you'll get better at running that particular distance if you do lots of running that distance. In other words, if you get out and run, say, a 5k race first time in the season; you'll feel somewhat sluggish and you're not quite on it. After the 3rd or 4th 5k, you feel more smooth and your time will come down quite dramatically. If you don't have your aerobic base established, in other words, if all you've done is lots of fast short repeats, most likely, you can't afford to continue to race week in and week out. After about 3 races, you're ready to call it a season. With broader foundation, supported with solid long distance work, you are more likely to be able to continue racing at high level and continue to improve. You mentioned that you're lazy and don't want to do a long run. Well, there have been many champions who were like that. Often there had been some buddies who would drag them out for a long run. Actually, there's no substitute to it. You cannot substitue one long continous 10-miler with two 5-milers 2 days in a row. You'll gain different type of benefit. I would in fact suggest you go by time rather than distance. Just get out and do 1:30 or 1:45 run, working your way up to about 2-hours. I feel strongest and seem to post the best season if I did 2-hour run almost every weekend. It does pay, however, like Ennay said, to fractuate your long runs. I just like to, personally, bull through it. It's a guy thing... Sometimes if I feel like I'm not quite getting it; I might even do a couple of long runs in a row. I've done three 2-hour runs in a row; Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That particular time, I did it on the same hilly loop course. I was dead on the second day but I posted the fastest time on the third day and I headed for the best season I ever had. Hope this makes sense and hopefully explains some of the reasoning behind long run. You need to understand WHY you're doing some of the workout; this is the best way to motivate yourself to get out and do some of the works particularly the ones (long runs???) you feel like avoiding.


              Dave

                Another great post, Nobby. I'm wondering about the importance of going beyond that 2 hour mark. Let me get more specific. My marathon schedule called for 20 miles today which would take me just over 3 hours. For whatever reason, I scaled back to 13 but I ran it at my intended marathon pace finishing in 1:50. How important was that last hour of slower running as opposed to the shorter distance at MP? I recognize that this will depend on my other runs during the week but I'm just curious about the training benefit from the longer training distances (as opposed to mental benefits).

                I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

                dgb2n@yahoo.com

                  Another great post, Nobby. I'm wondering about the importance of going beyond that 2 hour mark. Let me get more specific. My marathon schedule called for 20 miles today which would take me just over 3 hours. For whatever reason, I scaled back to 13 but I ran it at my intended marathon pace finishing in 1:50. How important was that last hour of slower running as opposed to the shorter distance at MP? I recognize that this will depend on my other runs during the week but I'm just curious about the training benefit from the longer training distances (as opposed to mental benefits).
                  Thanks. Before I joined RA, I was hanging around at CoolRunning and I was yelled at by a lady who's run 5:30 marathon because I said I don't necessarily believe in going beyond 3-hour for a preparation for the marathon. It got me curious, however, and I talked to some of the marathon coaches out there. Galloway absolutely strongly believe that, I think this is how he put it, the longest run you do 4 (or could have been 6) weeks before the marathon is where you'll experience the wall. Therefore, if you don't want it during the marathon, go beyond 26-miles. To me, a 6-hour marathon person (and we have a lot of them out there) to do 6+ hours training is, well... For one, for the sake of muscle break-down. It's a lot of pounding and, unlike swimming or cycling, it would take quite a bit to recover from the trauma like that. For someone like you, 4:15ish marathon guys, I think 3-hour is a good gauge and I would probably recommend you do one 3-hour run. Once again, this is why I don't like to go by mileage and prefer going by time; I think it's too much for most people to try to do three 20-milers to prepare for the marathon. I've just started to work with this young lady locally. She's done just under 3:40 for the marathon but mostly around 3:40. She told me, previously, she tried to follow available program that did three 20-milers. I basically cut it way back for her. It's only been a month or so but she went out this morning and ran a 25k race and ran her PR half marathon en route (1:38). We'll go for a 3-hour run next weekend but I told her that THIS IS IT! I'll have her do a 5k race probably the week after that or even a week before the marathon. She said that might be too much... I bit my tongue but thought, "not as too much as doing three 20-milers!" Now she's not doing as much trainng; she feels fresh and eager to run and...I guess the result showed. I asked her last week what her ultimate goal might be. She thought a bit and said, "Maybe 3:35?" Actually, I'm already thinking in terms of 3:32 at Twin Cities...or perhaps sub 3:30??? It's still premature but it seems to be, she was a classic example of doing too much before and now took some pressure off and she's doing really well. Now I didn't really answer your question; I think the greatest benefit of long runs, both mental as well as physical, would be between 2~3 hours. I don't know if there's any study done on this or I'm totally BSing; but, from my experience, it seems to work best. As for marathon pace, I would not go as long as 2-hours. Well, I guess it depends. I think half marathon would be a good way to work on the marathon pace but I would incline not to go too far beyond that. Once again, it's the pounding thing... I think you'll need to work on those things separately; long run at slower pace and marathon pace at a bit shorter duration. I think, for 3~4 hour guys, 10~13 (half) would be a good distance to do the MP workout.


                  Dave

                    Thanks, Nobby. My schedule had me doing (you guessed it) 3 x 20 milers. Nothing longer though. I'll make sure I do the next two but I'm not going to sweat missing this one. Had considered substituting a 22 or 23 for one of the remaining 20's but I think I'll just limit it to the roughly 3 hour efforts in the plan.

                    I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

                    dgb2n@yahoo.com

                      I tend to get lazy and I'd rather run 5 miles 2 days in a row than one 10 mile run.
                      You might consider running it on trails and consider it an adventure, esp. if you aren't training for anything in particular. Go exploring. Most trail runners look forward to their long runs and may go for many hours, although admittedly, there's some walking in there sometimes (but 2.8 hr running in a 3 hr time stretch beats the heck out of stopping at 1.7 hr or avoiding the bigger hills since I might have to walk, IMHO). The longer runs do have their own benefits.
                      "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog


                      Hawt and sexy

                        Aww, coolrunning and maryt. Good times.

                        I'm touching your pants.

                        Jayr


                          Nobby... Nice to see the response. What do you feel is the best way to "BALANCE" the training when doing high mileage? thanks j
                          Pammie


                            Thanks Nobby for posting that Earlier on this year while training for my 2nd marathon read in a few places by respected coaches about capping the long run at 2½-3 hours. For me that is about 15-18 miles. I remember having discussions with others they would tell me i should do 20 miles even for confidence. Its an arguement that still divides people. Well i didn't run 20 miles longest i did was 18 just the once, but still took 43 minutes of my first time only difference i ran more miles over the weeks and months beforehand but not as many long runs (i did run long for me) as other marathoners So i agree with everything you said there. and will do the same next time


                            On On

                              You may have answered this in a round about way but I'll ask the question anyway; Why should you run a long run longer than your intended distance unless your intended distance is the marathon? It seems everyone says to go run long, unless you are training for the marathon, then you should stop at 20 miles. Would someone benefit at all from doing 25 or even 30 mile runs as their long run? I believe your response (if I can read between the lines of your other posts) is your body can't handle it. The pounding over that many hours would be detrimental versus positive to your overall training. Agree, disagree? If you disagree with my assumption, then why don't people recommend doing longer runs than the marathon as training? After you address that then how do you train for ultras?


                              Feeling the growl again

                                How important is the long run? Well, it is important, but IMHO most beginner or low-mileage runners give it too much importance. When you start cutting out other days of running due to the length of or need for recovery from your long run, you're probably doing yourself more harm than help. Even when not marathoning, I try to keep a weekend 16-miler in my schedule at an easy to easy/moderate pace (about 1:45-1:50 for me). This winter, I was doing this consistently every week. Even for the relatively low overall mileage I was doing (40-50) I ran a pretty good 8K. Then in the summer, I was doing about the same overall mileage but had begun to slack and rarely ran over 10 miles. Even on similar mileage, my race times really began to suffer. That long run adds a lot of strength and endurance even when NOT training for a marathon. I recommend keeping a 1:30-2:00 run in your schedule if you're getting in 35-40 miles a week or more and want to continue to improve.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                                 

                                I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

                                 

                                12