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What comes first?? (Read 1229 times)

    I'm a newbie...I run 3-5 K 3-5 X/week. Do I increase distance or speed first?? Confused
      distance (and welcome btw!)


      Hawt and sexy

        Distance, and it's not close.

        I'm touching your pants.


        ...---...

          Chicken! no, wait, the EGG!

          San Francisco - 7/29/12

          Warrior Dash Ohio II - 8/26/12

          Chicago - 10/7/12


            Distance. First, second and third. Speed will come with distance - at least it did for me. I noticed a big jump in my 5k times when I was running 10ks often. Then I noticed another big burst of speed when I started getting into the 10+ miles. I crushed my 5k time by over 4 minutes when I was training for a half. Distance, for sure. Best of luck.
            mdmccat
              Do I increase distance or speed first?? Confused
              As you start out a jogging program, your body will go through series of demanding changes. For every physical activity, it requires oxygen to perform (unless you're Richard Gibbens ;o)). As the stress, in this case, speed, increases; so does the demand of oxygen. With the slight increase in running speed, the demand of extra oxygen shoots up dramatically (some may say it increases by doubling and tripling and cubing and so on). As you keep exercising at the same level for awhile, your body’s ability to retain more oxygen improves. In other words, because your oxygen retention ability is higher, now you can run at faster speed with same “effort”. Speed will be gained by improving your oxygen uptake and you cannot force it to improve. Well, I’ll take it back. You can force it to some extent but you will quickly hit the plateau. Body’s ability to retain more oxygen is best gained by increased capillaries in the working muscles. And it is best developed with long continuous running. You cannot run long by running too fast because you will quickly get into anaerobic state, or oxygen debt situation, and the exercise will have to stop prematurely. The best advice is to alternate the length of your runs by going one day short, say 20 minutes, and long the next day, say 45 minutes. By the time you hit over an hour, you will be running faster without trying. Initially it is a good idea to go out on a trail or something after a certain length of time, say 15 minutes, and turn around and come back in the same time—15 minutes. This way you know you are not overtaxing your system. Once every other week or so, hop on the same course and run out same length of time (say 30 minutes and turn around and come back for an hour’s run). After a couple of month, you’ll notice you’re running further and further within the same length of time without forcing the pace. It is because what once was anaerobic speed, with the increased oxygen uptake level, now has become aerobic. Now recently there's a hot debate (at some other message board) on aerobic and anaerobic. Apparently there's a new study and, along with it, new terminologies seem to be coming out. For the time being, I'd intentionally ignore that to make my point more simple. So please bear with me. ;o)
              Len


              Damn Yankee

                Everyone has already said it, extend your distance. Slowly but surely- run farther, more often and you will see improvement.

                Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending. Carl Bard

                  I agree on the distance recommendation, and will also add that for me, extending my distance is more satisfying than improving my times. I like running faster, but there is something great about crushing out more miles than I ever thought possible, even if it's a grind.
                    As you start out a jogging program, your body will go through series of demanding changes. For every physical activity, it requires oxygen to perform (unless you're Richard Gibbens ;o)). As the stress, in this case, speed, increases; so does the demand of oxygen. With the slight increase in running speed, the demand of extra oxygen shoots up dramatically (some may say it increases by doubling and tripling and cubing and so on). As you keep exercising at the same level for awhile, your body’s ability to retain more oxygen improves. In other words, because your oxygen retention ability is higher, now you can run at faster speed with same “effort”. Speed will be gained by improving your oxygen uptake and you cannot force it to improve. Well, I’ll take it back. You can force it to some extent but you will quickly hit the plateau. Body’s ability to retain more oxygen is best gained by increased capillaries in the working muscles. And it is best developed with long continuous running. You cannot run long by running too fast because you will quickly get into anaerobic state, or oxygen debt situation, and the exercise will have to stop prematurely. The best advice is to alternate the length of your runs by going one day short, say 20 minutes, and long the next day, say 45 minutes. By the time you hit over an hour, you will be running faster without trying. Initially it is a good idea to go out on a trail or something after a certain length of time, say 15 minutes, and turn around and come back in the same time—15 minutes. This way you know you are not overtaxing your system. Once every other week or so, hop on the same course and run out same length of time (say 30 minutes and turn around and come back for an hour’s run). After a couple of month, you’ll notice you’re running further and further within the same length of time without forcing the pace. It is because what once was anaerobic speed, with the increased oxygen uptake level, now has become aerobic. Now recently there's a hot debate (at some other message board) on aerobic and anaerobic. Apparently there's a new study and, along with it, new terminologies seem to be coming out. For the time being, I'd intentionally ignore that to make my point more simple. So please bear with me. ;o)
                    How do you know how fast to go? Do you do long runs at a pace relative to a certain race time? How about lactate threshold tempos? What determines the paces you should be running? Thanks. --Jimmy

                    log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #141

                     

                    Scout7


                    CPT Curmudgeon

                      RPE, or paces determined by racing.
                        RPE, or paces determined by racing.
                        What do you men? Please lay out examples explaining if you could. Thanks. --Jimmy

                        log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #141

                         

                        Scout7


                        CPT Curmudgeon

                          RPE = Rate of Perceived Exertion. There is a scale developed by a guy named Borg. His original scale went to 20, most people use a 1-10 scale, with 1 being no effort, and 10 being a maximal effort. Easy runs for me are somewhere around a 3-4, depending on terrain and other factors. I would rank a 5k effort at probably around an 8-9. Regarding pace, my current easy runs are at about 1-1:30 slower than my last marathon pace. Tempo runs are done anywhere between 10K pace to around marathon pace, depending on what my goal is. I don't really run intervals, because I haven't had any real desire to. My long run pace I try to hover around MP +/- 30 seconds, again depending on what I'm doing. This is a broad overview of my training. Your mileage may vary.
                            great tips ...thanks...for me it does feel better to run longer than faster....I'm definitely not built for speed anyway Smile
                              How do you know how fast to go? Do you do long runs at a pace relative to a certain race time? How about lactate threshold tempos? What determines the paces you should be running? Thanks. --Jimmy
                              Jim: When you do, say, 40 minutes of “test run”; going out on relatively flat course, taking wind in consideration (head wind or tail wind); you go out and run comfortably strong for 20 minutes, then turn around and come back in 25 minutes; then you’ll know you started out too fast, don’t you? Or if you feel it so easy that you come back in 15 minutes, you’ll know you are not running hard enough. Or put it another way; you go out and run, say, 1:30 strongly and evenly; but that run just completely wipes you out and you’ll have to take 3 or 4 days off afterwards, then you’ll know you pushed yourself too much, won’t you? We (human being) have been running without heart rate monitor (though, once again, I’m not necessarily against HRM) or Garmin to check out how fast each of our runs in minutes-per-mile and we did alright. People have trained just fine way before we even had a concept of “lactate threshold” run by gauging how we felt. One time, Ron Clarke, a great Australian distance runner, probably the greatest distance runner the world has ever seen, was asked at a clinic how he trained. He stood up and said, “When I felt good, I ran hard. When I didn’t feel good, I didn’t run as hard.” And he sat down. Now personally I like a little more structure. But our everyday condition changes; we have biorhythm; stress in life and work will affect your condition… There’s NO way you can precisely calculate what pace you should be running at. The more calculation you use, the further away you’d be from being in tune with your own body (unless you’re using it to “teach” the effort). Then the question becomes; would YOU dictate your effort of the day, or would you let pre-determined calculated number to dictate your effort? It would be so much better for you if you just go out for, say, 40 minutes and turn around and come back in almost same time; preferably a minute or two faster; KNOWING you could have gone a little bit harder or little bit longer if you had to; or, as Arthur Lydiard termed “Pleasantly Tired” state. People still have hardest time understanding what Lydiard’s ¼, ½ and ¾ effort. I believe this is because most people are so hooked with someone else or some pre-determined chart dictate the exact pace (effort) and, more often than not, run themselves in trouble because they are so preoccupied with sticking with that pre-determined pace regardless of what signs their own bodies are signaling.
                                Nobby, For runners who do use HRMs, what what you suggest for most runs? 180-age (MAF)? Percentage of max HR?
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