2017 Sub 3 Marathons...and beyond! (Read 403 times)

USATF rules - I believe these rules are put into place for liability reasons rather than to prohibit unfair competition. In a recent experience, at Broad Street my friend won first female master based on gun time. The race web site said that all awards will be issued according to gun time according to USATF rules. She was awarded 2nd female master at the award ceremony and decided to contest it and wrote the race director. He replied and said we decided to not overturn the results because the other woman won based on chip time, and that's how we've awarded masters awards in the past. This was in conflict with the website rules and USATF rules. In the end, the other woman was 10 seconds or whatever faster, but my friend felt that if she saw the other woman in front of her, she would have chased her down and passed her.

Race directors hate to overturn things and disqualify participants unless there is overwhelming evidence that breaking the rules impacted the true outcome and integrity of the race. Doping evidence, course cutting, or blatant obstruction or tripping during a sprint to the finish, expect a disqualification, less than that it's unlikely.

I watched pros take outside refreshments (plastic water bottles) in a few of the recent WMM races, I forget which ones. I believe Amy and Shalane did in the Olympic Trials qualifier, as I remember Amy passing a water bottle to Shalane.

I've seen similar instances where people won awards while wearing headsets, if someone kicked my ass while wearing a headset when they were prohibited in the rules, personally, I'd probably feel "cheap" asking the race director to disqualify them, just so I'd get bumped up in the awards. I wouldn't judge if someone else did it. How would you feel?

Mark - nice week!

Sling - great race! Congrats on the PR! I commend your aggressive plan given the winds, and your effort was worth a sub-3 under different  conditions, no doubt. GPS is wacky on splits throughout the city, so I'd go with the course clocks for those first few miles. Along the river in Philly, the wind patterns can be very tough and inconsistent, you can usually use logic and think headwind on the way out, then tailwind on the way back, but not there. The wind circles a lot along the river because of the hills and altering terrain along the roads, and you can never really be sure what you will get. Just plan on headwinds all the time! 

Pacing on even splits vs even effort - The group that I pace for allows the pacers to decide how they are going to pace a race. They appreciate the volunteers, and simply look at the results. I tell my group to expect even effort throughout the race with a 15 second cushion time target, I believe it's more successful. I let them know at the start that we'll go slightly faster when we have a tailwind and on the downhills, and we'll go slower with a headwind and on the uphills. I communicate constantly through out the race, and let them know where we stand at key points throughout the race, i.e., "we're currently 15 seconds behind goal target and we'll make that up on the upcoming downhill miles to the river."

Weekly Summary
Monday, Nov 13, 2017 thru Sunday, Nov 19, 2017

My hamstring had been starting to bother ever since my double race weekend a few weeks back.  So I scheduled a visit for the chiro Wednesday morning.  Just before that, I did a good 4x1mile workout.  The chiro worked on my leg a ton, and I left feeling quite sore, in a good way.  That soreness stuck with me.  I felt it a lot on Saturday, and just overall had a crappy run.  The weather didn't help as it was about 72F with over 90% humidity.  What's got me a little worried is I still feel the soreness in the hamstring, even on today's run.  I'm really hoping it clears up quickly.

I've been running less, and playing cycling video games more. And I seem to be getting fit quicker than usual. Though I haven't wrong longer than 10 miles (in a non-race since ~Labor Day). Probably do a 5k on Bird Day. Maybe get close to 20:00?

Weekly Summary
Monday, Nov 13, 2017 thru Sunday, Nov 19, 2017

Kram:  Great effort and way to pull through given the circumstances!

Andres:  Nice week even with the hammy issues.  4 X 1 mile looks pretty encouraging though.

JT:  Solid looking week.  Looking forward to seeing how this next cycle goes for you.

Sling:  Congrats on your race.  You easily be under 3 very soon.

Matt: Solid week overall!

Me:  Biggest mileage week so far in this cycle.  Really liked the 16+ mile effort on Wed that included some decent 6 X 1K intervals and then another 1.5 mile (uptempo) pacing a friend around the track.    Took advantage of the nice weather (around 60 for us) on Fri and ran another 20 min tempo within a 11 mile day.

Although during my EZ run this morning I noticed some discomfort in the lower part of my quad down near the medial side of my knee (not the knee itself so it's muscular).  Don't know when or how I tweaked it, but the pain (minor) never really went away either.  Still pretty sore afterwards.  Thinking it might be a slight overuse issue and that I'll need to back off for a few days. Maybe even x-train for a day or two.  Honestly thinking I might have done too much after my recent tough HM (warm/humid) 2 weeks ago.  I've hit 79 and 84 miles (with a few Q sessions)  in those 2 weeks so my body is probably telling me to hold on for a bit.  Better to take it a bit easy now then later.

Weekly Summary
Monday, Nov 13, 2017 thru Sunday, Nov 19, 2017

I wanted to discuss whether anyone completes true base building phases after a marathon. After NYC 2 weeks ago, I've effectively taken 2 weeks off. I'm going to spend the next 2 weeks getting back up to 60+. However, I have two different options:

1) Spend time base building with almost all easy mileage and strength work

2) Forgo base building since I've been running my most mileage ever during the marathon training and jump into half marathon training for the NYC Half in March.

Each choice to me has its pros/cons. Base building will certainly help build up some good mileage without any of the quality work to build a deeper aerobic base and more injury prevention, but it could be a waste of time and sacrifice training given the NYC Half is only 4 months away. I would say that I'm willing to sacrifice a bit for the half since it's going to be a difficult course and may be tough to PR. However, I don't want to build a base if it's just a complete waste of time since I've logged so many miles recently. I know most professional athletes actually complete their highest mileage during base and then cut back during marathon training so they can add quality work, but that doesn't apply to me here since my highest mileage was during training itself.

Any thoughts would be appreciated!

Slingrunner:  Congrats on the race! That wind was comical. Just holding it together on a day like that is a success.

JMac: NYC HM is a long way off. 17 weeks if I counted correctly. I think spending a few weeks running easy would be good to rest weary legs and make sure any niggles are gone. Do base building or just maintain a solid mpw. Then hit a hard cycle January 1. That would give a full 10 week cycle and 1 week taper for the race. IMO HMs require shorter cycles and tapers than FMs. Especially since you just completed a FM cycle and have built that endurance.

Holy smokes! I just had to spend 30 minutes catching up on all the excitement in this forum. So much to discuss! First off:

Sling- Great race and congrats on the 8 minute PR! 8 Minutes is huge and getting so close to 3 hours is the type of thing  that keeps you coming back for more. Really impressive.

Pacers- I just don't feel like I could trust a pacer. And I (personal opinion) feel like I would prefer a pacer that ran even splits because they would be my barometer of where I was at in the race. If they are in front of me then I know exactly how far behind my goal I actually am. But if they slow down in parts and speed up in others, it is difficult to know where you actually stand. But then again, I don't trust pacers anyways.

Mileage- I'm definitely not the expert here, seeing as how this is only my 3rd real marathon. But I was able to run a 2:47 on roughly 50 miles a week in my first marathon. Marathon 2 I increased to 65 mpw and dropped my time to 2:39. This cycle I have increased again and am averaging 90 mpw and will find out December 2nd what improvement have been made. So far, I am a huge believer that mileage matters for improvement. But mileage also makes me feel like an old man as I am going to bed at 9:30 every night to be able to wake up for 4:45 runs. Pros and cons.

5k's- How did the races go this past weekend?

Everyone else- Fun to see so many people posting their workout and seeing improvements. Looks like we are in for a great spring!

Checking in to report on my sub-3 at Philly yesterday.  Quick background:  this was marathon #2 for me, but I've been running and racing shorter distances for most of the past 15 years.  Marathon #1, NJ in April, was not a good experience - shooting for sub-3, probably went out a little fast, held 6:40 pace through 19 miles and then slowed, cramped and limped to a 3:07.  Switched from Hansons to Pfitzinger 18/70 for Philly, following it pretty much to a T, averaging 63 MPW for the 15 weeks pre-taper.  Ran a 1:22:40 half on Oct. 1, which gave me a lot of confidence for a sub-3, but based on the NJ experience I was cautious.  Remaining training was OK and taper was decent – caught a cold at the beginning of the week but managed the symptoms and was feeling fine by the weekend.

As Sling said, conditions were windy, but temps were low 50s and rain stopped an hour before the gun went off, so I was mentally in a positive place at the start.  My plan was to run 6:45-6:50 pace with a goal of feeling decent at mile 20 and riding the tailwind home.  I saw the 3:00 pacer briefly at the start but got ahead of him, and when I hit the first mile at 6:49 I figured I was in a good place and just ran with the group that evolved around me.  I like the Philly course – good variety of scenery, downtown, residential neighborhoods, quiet loop through the zoo, and then the out-and-back in the second half along the river.  I concentrated throughout on not pushing – any time I felt like I was starting to work or dig I backed off and tried to just keep good form and a smooth, steady pace.  I hit the halfway mark in 1:28:18 – only 45 seconds slower than the first half of NJ, which made me a little nervous (since I ended up with a painful 12-minute positive split), but feeling fine.  Turning up river at 14 for the out-and-back stretch, the wind was a challenge at times, but I never felt like I was running into a sustained wind for a long stretch – it felt like the course was twisty enough and the winds were variable enough that direct strong headwinds were only intermittent.  I dropped one of my gels at some point along here, so had to grab one at the next aid station (including temporarily taking the ski glove of the kid handing them out).

I made it through the smell of the beer tables in Manayunk and got to the mile 20 turnaround feeling decent – I kept waiting for the suffering to start but at mile 20 my legs felt OK, my breathing was calm and my energy level seemed normal.  At this point, I had been fighting with my watch since the halfway mark and wasn’t really aware of my splits (missed some mile markers, and my GPS didn’t seem to be tracking well), but I checked my pace band (printed out for 6:50 pace, or a 2:59:10) and I was 60-90 seconds ahead of schedule.  Between the tailwind and feeling decent I was tempted to ramp up the pace, but I still had a lingering fear of blowing up and didn’t want to jeopardize the sub-3 so I told myself no pushing until I hit 24.  The last couple of miles were fun as the crowds got bigger and louder and I was confident that the wheels weren’t going to come off.  Finished with a nice long kick, feeling like an Olympian with the loud cheers – ended up with a 2:57:13, less than a 1-minute positive split, which is definitely the better way to feel at the end of a race.