2017 Sub 3 Marathons...and beyond! (Read 403 times)

Sling - nice performance, and stronger than you were thinking about leading up to the race.

Re: outside help, I have no issues with it for those of us not competing for places/awards/prizes.  Yesterday I ran near 3 or 4 different local runners that had personal pacers jump in at various points and pace them for 5+ miles - while presumably against the rules, this doesn't harm me at all, and in fact I might get some free pacing out of it.  I'm racing against the clock, not against you - whatever you want to do to get yourself to the finish line faster, knock yourself out.

Dig dug congrats. The near even split is what it’s all about.  I may need some tips next year because I l plan on mercilessly crushing this In a year.  As in put up a result that would even make Mikkey proud.  

As for pacing ive never used one myself.  In ideal running conditions I have a system that hasn’t failed me yet on pacing, that  I will gladly offer up to anyone willing to pay handsomely for it.  Ha ha.  Where things get questionable for me is on less then ideal conditions.  Two pretty epic blowups.  Not tough enough mentally is part of that.  I also think people just run hotter then others and that’s definitely where I fall.

As for whether mileage makes a difference.  For me it’s been monumental.  On 80 mpws I’m 10 minutes slower then Strugglr, at  110 its a dog fight on a good day.  I get that some people don’t have the time but IMO your limiting your full marathon potential by not grinding higher mileage.  I mean there’s a reason why the best distance runners in the world crush 120-130 a week.  Now we used to never bring this up at RWOL which I always thought was silly but talent also plays a huge roll.  I am well aware that I will never run something as quick as what Flash will run or what TN has run.  There are limitations but that being said I’ll do or try almost anything to reach my goals.  I know that Father Time is going to catch up and maybe I have another couple of years to get there.  But I think I can and I’ll be happy to retire from racing when I do.  Some people like to race to beat friends or other competitors, but in the swimming world it was always about time.  So I never cared who I beat or who beat me it’s always been about PR ing and that’s it for me.  Maybe that’s why I race so infrequently, because I only like to race when I feel like I’m ready to PR.  And sorry this was a long winded rant.  Carry on boys and girls.  

JMac - I agree with Strugglr.  There's no real need for that long of a true build up for the half.  For me, I'd lose focus if I tried to build up that long for a half.  What I'd do is find a couple of 5k's/10k's that are about 8 weeks out from the half.  Target those and do a handful of workouts leading up to that.  This way you trick your mind in to training the full 16 weeks, but you don't have the singular focus of the half during that whole time.  Didn't you say you wanted to tackle those shorter races?

 

Swim - learning how to execute well on a day where you're not in PR shape (or the weather doesn't cooperate) helps you be able to execute well when you are in PR shape.  Racing infrequently because you won't be in PR shape doesn't seem like a good game plan. I hope you get better soon and I hope you learn to enjoy racing more often.  I do believe it will do you a lot of good.

I did just NS a 34:30 10k TT on a 130 TDP morning so I don’t i always run poorly in less then ideal conditions.  I’ve Just run 2 poor marathons in them.

Hey guys!  I've been MIA for the last few months.  I thought I'd give my report of my Philly Marathon and comment on on Sling and DigDug's races too.

Goal:  Sub 2:52:59.... An NYQ.

Result:  2:59:32.

Training:  I followed the Daniels 2Q peaking ~80mpw starting in the last week in July and doing all of my training at 6,000'.  This plan went okay.  I really had a hard time hitting paces at altitude; now this cycle is behind me I have a much better idea how to translate sea level paces to altitude. Regardless, I believe I was comfortably PR fit when I toed the line on Sunday, though I much preferred the JD 4 week cycle plan where every 4th week is all easy running.

Race:  Well I think we all know by now that it was a very windy day in Philadelphia on Sunday.  My plan was to go out at 6:33 pace/effort and hold that for as long as possible and see how the race unfolded.  The first 15 miles were a breeze (pun intended).  The boost from coming down from altitude was massive --  in fact the 13.1 split of 1:25:48 is a PR for that distance.

I think all who ran would agree that the race started at the Kelly Drive out and back.  I knew the whole time that this was going to be difficult.  My plan was to try not to waste too much energy fighting the wind and if my pace fell off a bit going out I could make it up after the turn around.  Ultimately, my race did not work out that way.

The race got away from me from mile 18-20 heading into Manayunk.  The uphill and the wind, combined with a pace that was already pushing it, was too much.  My legs were totally cooked by mile 22, and I got passed by at least 30 runners in the last 4 miles.  With my pace quickly deteriorating, a sub 3 was in serious doubt now.

In the end I was quite pleased I was able to hold on for a sub 3.  With the wind, uphill at the very end, and mental challenge of getting passed over and over again, it would have been easy to give up.  The finish line was a very welcome sight, especially with 2:59:XX still showing.  I even got interviewed by the local news after the race!

Recap:  While I was off my goal time by a pretty wide margin, I'm pleased with this performance and my 2017 as a whole.  Running a 2:57 back in May was really special for me.  I've been able to put things in perspective over the last 48 hours.  It was only 4 years ago when I was 70 lbs overweight, yet now I've run two sub 3s in a year.  When I first heard that you had to qualify for the Boston Marathon, my goal was to qualify before my 30th birthday, so getting two sub 3s and 26 and 27 in one year is pretty awesome.  I'm think I'm going to make just a new PR my goal for Boston; I'm confident that an NYQ is possible -- though I might have a better shot a sub 1:21 half.

Looking Ahead:  Boston will be next marathon, but I'm signed up for the Black Canyon 100k in February.  Still have no idea how I'm going to train for it, but I'm going to take a few easy weeks and throw together some kind of plan.  I will be entering the lottery for Leadville 100, so 2018 will be defined by whether or not I get in.  I do think that I need a change of pace from marathon training.

Digdug - Congratulations on a very well executed race.  I think I recall a 40-something passing me in the last mile and a half.  Impressive stuff!

Sling - Well done with a huge 8 minute PR.  At least I wasn't the only one who was crushed going into Manayunk.  I'd say your 3:02 would translate to a sub 3 on less windy day.  Let's hope that your time will be good enough for Boston 2019.

Hey guys!  I've been MIA for the last few months.  I thought I'd give my report of my Philly Marathon and comment on on Sling and DigDug's races too.

 

Goal:  Sub 2:52:59.... An NYQ.

 

Result:  2:59:32.

 

Training:  I followed the Daniels 2Q peaking ~80mpw starting in the last week in July and doing all of my training at 6,000'.  This plan went okay.  I really had a hard time hitting paces at altitude; now this cycle is behind me I have a much better idea how to translate sea level paces to altitude. Regardless, I believe I was comfortably PR fit when I toed the line on Sunday, though I much preferred the JD 4 week cycle plan where every 4th week is all easy running.

 

Race:  Well I think we all know by now that it was a very windy day in Philadelphia on Sunday.  My plan was to go out at 6:33 pace/effort and hold that for as long as possible and see how the race unfolded.  The first 15 miles were a breeze (pun intended).  The boost from coming down from altitude was massive --  in fact the 13.1 split of 1:25:48 is a PR for that distance.

 

I think all who ran would agree that the race started at the Kelly Drive out and back.  I knew the whole time that this was going to be difficult.  My plan was to try not to waste too much energy fighting the wind and if my pace fell off a bit going out I could make it up after the turn around.  Ultimately, my race did not work out that way.

 

The race got away from me from mile 18-20 heading into Manayunk.  The uphill and the wind, combined with a pace that was already pushing it, was too much.  My legs were totally cooked by mile 22, and I got passed by at least 30 runners in the last 4 miles.  With my pace quickly deteriorating, a sub 3 was in serious doubt now.

 

In the end I was quite pleased I was able to hold on for a sub 3.  With the wind, uphill at the very end, and mental challenge of getting passed over and over again, it would have been easy to give up.  The finish line was a very welcome sight, especially with 2:59:XX still showing.  I even got interviewed by the local news after the race!

 

Recap:  While I was off my goal time by a pretty wide margin, I'm pleased with this performance and my 2017 as a whole.  Running a 2:57 back in May was really special for me.  I've been able to put things in perspective over the last 48 hours.  It was only 4 years ago when I was 70 lbs overweight, yet now I've run two sub 3s in a year.  When I first heard that you had to qualify for the Boston Marathon, my goal was to qualify before my 30th birthday, so getting two sub 3s and 26 and 27 in one year is pretty awesome.  I'm think I'm going to make just a new PR my goal for Boston; I'm confident that an NYQ is possible -- though I might have a better shot a sub 1:21 half.

 

Looking Ahead:  Boston will be next marathon, but I'm signed up for the Black Canyon 100k in February.  Still have no idea how I'm going to train for it, but I'm going to take a few easy weeks and throw together some kind of plan.  I will be entering the lottery for Leadville 100, so 2018 will be defined by whether or not I get in.  I do think that I need a change of pace from marathon training.

 

 

 

Digdug - Congratulations on a very well executed race.  I think I recall a 40-something passing me in the last mile and a half.  Impressive stuff!

 

Sling - Well done with a huge 8 minute PR.  At least I wasn't the only one who was crushed going into Manayunk.  I'd say your 3:02 would translate to a sub 3 on less windy day.  Let's hope that your time will be good enough for Boston 2019.

 

Great race.  I live at 7000 ft so I am curious what pace conversion you were using at 6000?  The run smart Daniels calculator is the one I used.  I was getting 19-21 seconds per mile at 7000 ft.  I moved here in July and went back to Chicago in October and felt like I got blasted out of a cannon.  I felt the same about the boost I got as well.  Feels great to able to run and not feel like you are breathing through a straw.  Enjoy the recovery

DigDug, Brauda - nice RR's and well done!

JTReeves - Thanks, I've been loving the track sessions lately.  I'm not sure what I'll shoot for at Omaha HM.  It's a flat course, but not super fast owing to having 2-3km on the beach and grass and the temperature could play a part too.  I'm not really lining up a PR, will just go out to have some fun and enjoy it and see how it goes.

JMac - I think you're dead on re mileage and talent.  You can get so far on natural ability, but beyond that you need mileage to make the most of it.  And equally, all the mileage in the world is not going to get you beyond whatever constraints your level of natural ability may impose.

16:43 and 1st place in the Corporate Challenge 5km last night... RR below.

A brief RR...

The Corporate Challenge 5km is a reasonable-sized event (~1,700 entrants) but skewed towards the more social side of things.  However there are normally a handful of competitive runners there and last year's winner was sub-16.  It's a 2 lap course in the Auckland Domain, with probably just over 1km on grass and a deceptively nasty hill, so it's not especially quick.  I'm hoping there will be some fast guys there to make it competitive as I'm really interested to see what sort of time I can post, having not run a hard 5km for probably a year.

I don't see a lot of guys I recognise there other than Julian Ng, who is normally around the 17-min mark.  However at the start there pretty quickly emerges a lead group of 6-7 runners.  I suspect some of these who will be guys who have the competitive attitude but not the fitness and sure enough, the group is down to 4 by the time we are headed up Museum Hill after 1.5km or so - me, Sam Sygrove (I didn't know his name then), Julian and one other.  I am definitely the one pushing the pace with Sam on my shoulder and the others hanging behind.  This also meant I had to do a lot of the work into a surprisingly gusty northerly for around 500m or so.  Km 1 is 3:19 and km 2 is 3:22 so we are setting a good pace despite the warm temps (it was 20C / 68F) and the course.

By the time we drop down the hill and past the Gardens it's down to just me and Sam.  Julian is not too far back, maybe 10 seconds.  Back on to the grass and the first lap is down.  The second lap presents a different challenge as we are catching the walkers who are spread across the course.  Despite the best efforts from the marshal on the bike ahead of us to clear a path there is still some weaving required, which is slightly frustrating.  Sam is on my shoulder but I sense he is starting to flag just a little and working to keep up.  Km 3 was 3:27, the slowest of the race.  I figure if I give it a nudge going up the hill, I might be able to build a lead.  Although my lungs are burning, the strategy works and by the time we are back down the hill, I figure I have 5 seconds or so on him.  Km 4 was 3:24, slowed up a little due to the hill and traffic.  I figure a PB is entirely possible, but with 1000m to go, and the lungs starting to burn in that 5km race kind of way, I am more concerned with just holding my pace and finishing strongly.  Coming up to the finish I hear some of my team mates cheering as they are just finishing their first lap.  I've never actually won a race of this size so it's a special and slightly surreal feeling to be approaching the finish line knowing I'm leading.  I haven't looked over my shoulder because I figure I'll hear anyone coming and I've kicked it up a little for the last 150m towards the finish line.  Crossing the line first is an awesome feeling, even better when I look at my watch and it says 16:44 which is a new PB (my previous PB wasn't really a PB because it was an unofficial TT effort anyway).  I'm sucking in the big ones as Sam finishes second, 10 seconds or so behind and Julian is another 10 seconds or so behind him.  It doesn't sound like a lot but when you do the maths its probably like 40-50 metres which is actually quite a long way!  Km 5 at 3:11 was the fastest of the race, helped by the fact its net downhill, but still nice to have a bit of a finishing kick too.

Very pleasing result on the time, considering I hadn't really trained with any specificity for this race, and it was not a flat and fast course.  I guess the combination of recent marathon mileage and a few track sessions over the last couple of weeks to build speed really helped.  Has me feeling optimistic for the Omaha HM in a few weeks as well.  I seem to have continued my weird habit of setting PB's on tough courses too.  My watch had the course slightly short at 4.95km but there were some tree covered areas that can throw the GPS a bit.  According to the official race time (16:43) I did exactly even splits, I suspect most of the faster runners would actually have been slightly positive.