2017 Sub 3 Marathons...and beyond! (Read 403 times)

Swim5599


    JT I’m so sorry for your loss.  I lost my mom in March before Boston and I didn’t know what to do so I kept lacing them up and heading out.  Put the greatest cycle of my life together and then ran horribly.  There’s no right or wrong way to handle any of this.  My heart goes out to you.

    HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04 

    dan.b


      Hi all,

      good to find most of the people who were on the RWOL thread.

       

      However I reintroduce myself again, 31 old male, football background (soccer for Americans  ) entered NY marathon in 2014 and did 4:58 after almost no training at all, then decided that I wanted to finish marathons much stronger.

      After only 6 months (April) in Paris in 2015 I ran in 3:56, then from there I started to train and gave up with football in the meantime.

      Then, Midnight Sun Marathon after few months (June 2015, without GPS) I ran in 3:41, went back in NY that year aiming for a 3:30, but blew up at 22nd mile and ended in 3:47. Then I redeemed myself in Pisa that December with 3:28.

      And that one was the point when I started to think about a sub 3 marathon.

      After 4 months in April 2016 in Rotterdam I ran in 3:14, but a problem with my sesamoids led me to a miserable summer, with a couple of 4/5 weeks breaks with no running.

      Restarted to train seriously in October 2016, went to Seville in February 2017 and ran it in 3:06, fast and flat course, but on a wind day.

      Then after Seville I was almost burnout, because spent 2 months in the edge of overtraining in order to come back fit by February, plus few other issue like moving to a new flat, did not give me enough time and mental focus to do a sub 3:05 attempt for May/June.

      However, that one has been a good chance to start fresh an 18 week training cycle from June to 1st October.

      I had the most solid 18 weeks of training of my life this summer, still fighting with sesamoids, but everything else was great. Here you can see my training log: https://goo.gl/gwVbxQ.

       

      Then last weekend I ran the Cologne marathon in 2:59

       

      (Rece report in the next post)

      dan.b


        Here we go, finally I ran a sub 3 hour marathon.

        First race report on this new forum 

         

        As mentioned in my previous post, this summer I had a very solid 18 weeks of training.

        So, when I was approaching the tapering weeks I had no regrets at all, I knew I had a sub 3 hour in my legs, the main concern was to avoid to do damages, but tapering weeks are always the mentally toughest, I always find easier to do an high quality week with also a good mileage rater then a 26 mile week on barely 3 runs.

         

        So race day, overnight I managed to sleep only about 5 hours on that bed (and it was the reason why I decided to travel on Saturday morning), but fairly fresh from good sleep in the previous nights.

         

        10 am race start!

        I joined the 3 hour pacer, but in the first few miles/km the course was very packed, and it was not easy to stay with the pacer. After few miles, the group adjusted a bit and I was in the 3 hour group, it was crowded, we were barely touching each other elbows, and two runners ahed of me clashed and almost both fall, I was not relaxed, but at least staying in the group was shielding me from breeze, especially in the spells along the river.

        I thought "There must be 100 people in this group, but only few of them will last at this pace".

         

        The pacer and the group were going exactly at a 3 hours pace and sometimes even slower, I could pass them, but conservatively decided to stay with them for the first 10k ( my 10k split 42:22, sub 3 is 42:30).

        After 10k I increased my pace and passed the 3 hour group, I was feeling that I could run faster and also wanted to build some cushioning time in case of some bad miles towards the end, if you are in the edge and towards the end you have even a small unforeseen that lead you to lose 20 seconds for a couple of kilometers, you are out.

        Half way mark passed with a time of 1:29:23, perfect!

         

        Until 28th km, was just cruise control really.

        So I started to think, "Can I run at MP for less than 10 mile? Yes I can", I was feeling I still had plenty of fuel, nevertheless the unknown for me is beyond the 32nd km (20th mile), before tapering I ran 20 miles almost every Saturday.

         

        33rd km mark ( almost 21th mile), though "ok fine, 10k at MP", but it was not easy as before I started to feel some fatigue, but I though was sustainable. Only 10k at MP. I never do this workout, it's too easy.

         

        Then 36th km, here I really started to do the countdown, just 6 km to go, but kilometers started to be longer and longer, I started to push even more, I was passing people, and approaching who were in my horizon for all the race long, I checked the splits, I was not running faster at all, they were slightly slowing down.

        The GPS looked like it was stuck I was checking it every 200 meters, the distance was always the same, but my watch was perfectly fine, it was me that I started to suffer, much more mentally than physically.

        I was trying to find some positive thought, in theory there was some room to push slightly more, my heart rate was only around 168, while in other marathons I have been always above 170 towards the end.

        I was pushing as much I could, stopped to check the splits I did not want to get stressed any further, there were only 5k left, just wanted to do what I could for those 5k, I was running at 4:15min/km (6:50 min/mile) but the perceived effort was as I was running at 3:50/45 min/km.

         

        Last 3km, I was deliberating ignoring the splits, I was suffering too much, I never expected to suffer in that way.

        Started to think "Whatever! Doing my best, does not matter if not sub 3, at least it will be under 3:05, good for age for London and Boston".

        41st km mark, this time I checked the time, it was 2:54:40.

        Though:"Hold on! 2:54:40 Fine! I have 5 minutes for 1.2km, I can do it, with 1.2km at MP I can do a sub 3 hour, it's just marathon pace, not faster, I do that!", then I started to empty everything I had left, flat out, the legs were not elastic as earlier, I had the feeling my muscle were made of wood instead of a soft tissue, the wind in the meantime became stronger, at the last water station they dropped the gatorade on the floor and my shoes where sticky, at that time in the race it was looking like I had the stickest glue under my shoes and not only some gatorade.

        Only one kilometer left "I do not want to do 3:01, I want 2:59, no way I am going to do above 3, even by one second, sub 3 it is the massive difference, Dan think about all the times you ran under the rain, all the trainings I have done, it must be sub 3 hour; It must be sub 3, that's it!"

        In the meantime I could not see the finish, it was only 600 meters left, I was running in the old town, pushing as much as I could, but I wanted to see the finish, where is the finish!!??

        Then I saw the 42nd km marker, turned left, then finally the finish was only 200 meters away, I started to push even more, it was painful, but I did not have signs of cramps at all.

        While I was rushing to the finish line I was looking for the timer, usually it is above the finish, I could not see it, "Doesn't matter, I will discover my time when I cross the finish and I stop my watch!"

        Finally, in the last few meter I noticed the timer, it was showing a fantastic 2:59:3x, and crossed the line; also to be sure that my time was recorder I stopped running only at the second mat to be 100% sure the time of my chip was recorder right.

        Stopped my watch 2:59:33, official time will be 2:59:30, I had a massive smile and gave five to other runners who just crossed the line too, we had the same target.

        Then I walked to the refreshment area chatting with the 3 hour pacer who crossed the finish roughly at the same time of me.

         

        I couldn't ask more, super happy for what I achieved, now the priority is to recover, I am having a whole week completely at rest.

         

        Next goal is to "update" my PBs for 5k and 10k, currently 19:09 and 39:39, but with this fitness I feel I could cut a minute to my 5k and 1.5 minute, if not more, in my 10k.

         

        I would like to spend some time in focusing in shorter distances, but I have to be wise and realistic, the priority has to be my pronation and core strength.

         

        If I want to improve next year, I have to decrease the level of my pronation that is causing the sesamoiditis even with stability shoes ( too much pressure on the ball under the foot which triggers the inflammation, potentially leading to stress fractures; for runners sesamoids fractures may be "career" threating).

        dan.b


          @JTReeves Sorry for you loss

          flyrunnr


            JTReeves - my sympathies for your loss, and thoughts with you and your family. Also like Swim, I found that lacing up also helped my grieving process when I lost my Mom a few years ago. I often think about my Mom when suffering during a race-- she fought a tough battle with cancer, and showed amazing strength up until the end -- I simply try show the same strength in the face of pain during that last 10K of a marathon.

             

            Dan.B - Congrats on the sub-3!! I enjoyed your bio and and the long journey to sub-3 as well as your race report. You battled the mental demons and won.

             

            Watson - I'll be thinking of you today, hoping for a great race for you -- wet and mid-50's isn't the best for me, I learned that in Boston '15, that's a recipe for cramping. Other people rocked PR's, for me it was a personal worst.

             

            IAM - 115 mpw is still wicked high! Do you know Chris Battoo? He is a friend of mine from your area. I didn't know Swim trains at altitude, all the more impressive. Where does he reside?

             

            I'm running the Delaware Distance Classic 15K tomorrow, should be interesting, no taper, just want to get some more experience in the race environment before NYC. Anyway, I was told way back in the early days of the DDC15K race, possibly back in the 70's or 80's, the race director offered $100 to anyone that broke 50:00 to increase the draw of talented participants for the race. Well, $100 was far more than the race entry fee and a decent profit for fast runners. To the race director's surprise, word spread very quickly and weather was perfect racing conditions, in the end, he had to take out a loan to pay the masses that broke 50:00. It was a very expensive lesson in race directing, and almost bankrupted the race. Smile

            https://www.strava.com/athletes/2507437

            PR's - 5K - 17:57 (2017) | 10K - 38:06 (2016)  | 13.1 1:23:55 (2019)  | 26.2  2:58:46 (2017)

            2020 Goals - Sub-2:55 Marathon                       Up Next: TBD, Boston on 9/14?

             

            Mikkey


            Mmmm Bop

              JT - That’s terrible news and I’m very sorry for your loss.

               

              DanB - Belated congrats and great RR!  Hopefully see you at London 2019.

               

              My week is done...

               

              Tue - 14 treadmill w/5x3k@ 6:26 (3min rec)

              Wed - 6 easy

              Fri - 9 easy

              Sat - 7 w/5k@ 6:11

              Total - 36

               

              Well I ran the 5k Parkrun this morning in the rain and 25mpw winds with wet leaves on parts of the course, so ended up running a lot slower than expected (19:26) which was good for 18th overall out of 379 finishers. I’ve been dealing with an annoying niggle for the last 3/4 weeks...the main soreness is at the top of the hamstring (when I roll it) and my lower back/butt doesn’t feel right either. Some of you may remember that I had the same niggle in Spring after I got tripped up and fell during a half in Feb. I think it might be sciatica and doing stretches for those symptoms. I’m going to take it easy next week and hope that I can squeak under 3 hours at Amsterdam.

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

              flyrunnr


                My week is done...

                 

                Tue - 14 treadmill w/5x3k@ 6:26 (3min rec)

                Wed - 6 easy

                Fri - 9 easy

                Sat - 7 w/5k@ 6:11

                Total - 36

                 

                Is that a metric week?!?    We have a 7 days in our week over in the US. Wink

                 

                Good luck with working out the niggle, maybe a good massage will help.

                https://www.strava.com/athletes/2507437

                PR's - 5K - 17:57 (2017) | 10K - 38:06 (2016)  | 13.1 1:23:55 (2019)  | 26.2  2:58:46 (2017)

                2020 Goals - Sub-2:55 Marathon                       Up Next: TBD, Boston on 9/14?

                 

                weatherboy80


                  JT: that's horrible news.  My prayers to you and your family.  There is no right or wrong on when to return to running or whether you should race next weekend as each person is different.

                  1mile: 4:46 (12/20) | 5K: 15:57 (3/21)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  15K 51:43 (4/21) | HM: 1:15:03 (12/20)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)

                  kramrunner


                    JT: Sorry to hear about this. My thoughts to you and your family.

                    5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17)  -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)

                    2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40!         Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)

                    watsonc123


                      Dan - big congrats on 2:59.

                       

                      As for me, not the greatest day at the office.

                       

                      Ran the Wairarapa marathon this morning. I ditched my A aim last night, a combination of a niggly left leg, the course being hillier than I realized (I drove it yesterday), being a little sick,  plus not having had enough volume meant sub 3 was out of the question.

                       

                      I also ended needing to stretch out on Saturday significantly as left knee was quite sore (tendonitis in the ACL). Saturday night I had my left knee, hip and achilles do large releasing. It meant I lost some muscle tension, and therefore a little speed. But I think my knee would have fell apart around 30-35km otherwise.

                       

                      In hindsight I should have made my last week's aim to get my leg as good as possible.

                       

                      So I started out at about 4:30/km pace. Aiming for 45 minutes at 10km, which I managed. And then aimed to speed up a bit and run 3:02-3:04.

                       

                      Well I didn't speed up. Went through halfway at 1:35. And then faded and did 1:41 second half for 3:16.

                       

                      It was a very small race. I ended up in 4th at around 4-5km. And stayed there until 36km when the guy that was 3rd fell apart. I was doing 5 minute/km or 8 minute/mile at that point, and I passed him relatively quickly.

                       

                      First was 2:59, second 3:00, so it was a long way back to me.

                       

                      I got over taken by about 4 halfers on my second lap, but it felt pretty lonely out there. I guess there was 35 in the full.

                       

                      So a personal worst, but I am ok about it. After having 6 months of very low volume, it took me a long time to get up to ok volume.

                       

                      I have a house to do some work on now before selling, so very little running the next 6 weeks. But I will then get myself to around 45 miles a week which should be much easier to ramp up from than 20 miles a week.

                      PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                       

                      40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)

                       

                      2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05

                       

                      2024 PRs: 5km 20:25

                        Watson congratulations not many can say they came 3rd in a marathon ! Look forward to a cycle for you where life doesnt get in the way.

                         

                        Mikkey thats a bummer. I had terrible back problems recently lots of pain in my lower back and hip on one side. Was my sacrioliac joint. Im back on the stretching/strength train now and its much better. Back pain leaves you feeling very down but can be fixed quickly and then everything is good again so dont write yourself off yet.

                         

                        Fly good luck in the race. Thats a cool story on the prize money.

                         

                        Dan you ran that race so perfect congrats. it takes me back to my first marathon which was very similar in time and that ecstatic feeling of achieving such a milestone.

                         

                        My week done. Picked up a sore throat on vacation but not too bad. Got in a good 8k tempo again and another week over 1000m climbing.

                         

                         

                        Mon 5.0 8.30 Flat Link
                        Tue 6.3 7:30 Bribe kids to bike for candy strava
                        Wed 6.2 7:47 Post beer and sushi strava
                        Thu 6.8 8:48 Papamoa Hills strava
                        Fri 8.7 8:14 Morning Run strava
                        Sat 7.7 6:57 Napier with 8k tempo strava
                        Sun 10.0 9:14 Napier hills strava
                          50.7 8:11  

                        55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT

                        " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                        Somewhere in between is about right "      

                         

                        Marky_Mark_17


                          JTReeves - sincere condolences, very sorry to hear of your loss.  We all love our running and have highs and lows with it but that sort of thing kind of puts it into perspective I guess.

                           

                          Watson - sounds like a bit of a tough day out there.  You have had a pretty busy few months with a lot to juggle so it was a big ask.

                           

                          Mikkey - bummer on the injury and hope it comes right shortly.

                           

                          Dan - awesome job and congrats!! Great RR!

                           

                          Piwi - nice week, I saw that tempo session on Strava and it looked good.

                           

                          Me - had a pretty cruisy week, 68km mostly easy.  The legs were definitely tired after last Sunday's 35km-er so I really dialled it back this week other than a great track session on Saturday including a 3km TT in 9:37.4 (including a new 1 mile PR of 5:08).  Sunday's long run was kinda hard work though and really felt tired in the last few km's.  Mostly easier weeks from here on until the marathon though.

                           

                          M: weights

                          T: 6.8km with a few short sprints

                          W: 10.5km incl. a few strides

                          Th: 8.3km easy

                          F: 7.3km easy

                          S: 6.4km incl. 3km TT (9:37)

                          S: 28.7km LR

                          Total: 68km

                          3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                          10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                          * Net downhill course

                          Last race: Maraetai HM, 10 Mar, DNF

                          Up next: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr

                          "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                          Swim5599


                            Mkkey bummer on the back big fella.  My lower back gets a lot tight as well.

                             

                            Marky mark.  Killer TT buddy love it.

                             

                            Watson breaking 3 for the first is oh so sweet.  Today is my 4 year anniversary of my first as well.  I had a blast that day.  Enjoy it.

                             

                            fly I moved to flagstaff 10 weeks ago.  7000 ft and it was brutal for about 5.5 or 6 weeks.

                             

                            Me i got 116 in this week and it was a good one.  First 4 days were in Flag and the last 3 were back home in Chicago.

                             

                            Mon am 12 easy 7:45

                                  Pm 5 8:08

                            Tue am 12 with strides 7:41

                                Pm 5 8:03

                            Wed am a massive fartlek that was 15x800 at 2:59 with 90 secs off at 7:35.  Came out to be 10.3 miles.  Was actually supposed to be 18 reps but I’m still dealing with dehydration issues up that high

                               Pm 7.5 easy 8:03

                            Thurs 13 easy 7:53

                            Fri 12 easy with strides in Chicago 7:06

                            Sat am 20 with a solo 10k TT on the track that I just really beat the brakes off.  34:30 was out in 17:32 and brought her home in 16:58.  Super humid but msn what a difference in how hard you can push at sea level

                             Pm 6.5 easy 7:53

                            Sun 5 easy pre marathon spectating 8:15.

                             

                            Back to flagstaff for 5 more weeks and then Richmond where we will see.  IAM is crushing everything wait til you guys see what he pulled this week.  If I can hold onto him in November I’ll be thrilled

                            HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04 

                            Andres1045


                              Watson - Sorry about the rough go at it.  Sounds like there was a lot going against you on the day already, and with training being already on the edge, seems like things didn't break in your direction.  At least this cycle will get you closer to sub3 and you'll know better what it'll take for the next time.

                               

                              Danb - Great recap.  Thanks for putting that together.  Hope you stick around and keep working on that upward trajectory.

                               

                              IAD - Um, that's kind of my point. You've worked hard enough so that it's no longer that big of a deal to break 100.  Yet it's still a big deal being able to easily get to 100.  And it's a much bigger deal getting there with all of that quality you put up.  I think you downplay it too much, but training like that takes a lot of talent.  I know I'd break in half if I tried.  You've already seen 90% of the results from it with your two big Boston races, but hopefully you get much closer to 100% in Richmond.

                               

                              Mark and Piwi - Solid weeks there.

                               

                              My week:

                               

                              Weekly Summary
                              Monday, Oct 02, 2017 thru Sunday, Oct 08, 2017

                              <tfoot> </tfoot>
                              Day Miles Pace Description HR Link
                              Mon 4.2 9:36 Morning Run 125 (64%) strava
                              Tue 6.3 8:28 Morning Run 136 (70%) strava
                              Thu 4.0 7:05 Strep or no strep? 4x3min 155 (79%) strava
                              Fri 6.1 7:56 Morning Run 144 (74%) strava
                              Sun 13.2 6:23 Royal Parks Half 173 (89%) strava
                                33.8 7:33      

                               

                              I had a cold that came on last weekend and seemed to linger all week.  I was hoping it would go away well before my race today, but it never really seemed to--I still felt like crap getting off the plane yesterday.  I thought sub 1:23 was reasonable a couple of weeks ago, but had no idea what to expect for today after being sick.  I slept well last night, and was feeling better this morning. I started out around 6:15 and that felt super comfortable (the first half of this race is much easier than the last).  I was feeling good up until mile 10, then tanked.  I was running with a guy at mile 10 that ended up holding strong for a 1:22:15.  I finished just over 1:24.  I think 1:22:30 would have been reasonable if I hadn't gotten sick, but who really knows.  Oh well.  This wasn't a goal race, so no big deal.  I still think I'm on track to do well in Houston come January.

                               

                              Also, had a great time catching up with Mikkey after.  It was a big boost to see him at mile 9.

                              Upcoming races: Boston

                              Andres1045


                                Incredible week there, Swim.

                                Upcoming races: Boston