Forums >Running 101>Running a Sub 4 Minute Mile: Help and Advice Needed
You people WORK?! suckers. you're just cogs in the machine 😉
Time commitment is the biggest obstacle to overcome after you're no longer a full time student. But the two hours a day to be a 70mpw runner shouldn't be TOO hard. Personally, I hate running in the morning, otherwise I'd get an easy 3-5 in the morning and a workout at my regular time in the afternoon. Due to the nature of my current work (theater performance company technical director), the two weeks leading up to the opening of a show is very difficult to find time to run daily with the 12-16hr work days. I typically get 2, maybe 3 runs a week then. Knowing this is going to happen, I ramp up the miles the weeks before so the downtime is used as "recovery". It's not ideal, but it's better than nothing.
Riman may indeed be lucky enough to have enough free time to train. Maybe he's one of the smart people that has his own online business and time to complete a project is totally flexible. I think half my friends are consultants or freelancers now. Or maybe he does have a trust fund or some investments or annuities that cover the bills, good for him. Regardless, if he has 8hrs a day to devote to training, that's 4-6 more than he actually needs, unless rest and recovery and eating right count toward "training time".
60-64 age group - University of Oregon alumni - Irreverent and Annoying
Stotan Disciple
Here is what I would say to you getting back to your goal.
Make sub 4:00 both a goal and a dream that you work towards.
Work at this, start by defining your goals and objectives.
Break up this dream project into various components that needs to be completed before you can realize the whole.
Make some short term goals account for creep (poor genetics, learning curve, injuries etc.)
Phase 1
.Do Research (I'd start by getting biographies on some of the greatest milers like Herb Elliott, Seb Coe.
Phase 2 (Prerequisite complete phase 1)
(In Phase 2 start slowly increasing your mileage base. Some natural milers can get by on 40-60 mile weeks some need 50-80+. This is something that will take a while to figure out and you have to pay attention (responsive training, by feel) to which suits you. Expect some scope creep (injuries, loss of motivation) as you figure this out. It can take a while, you will need several cycles..
Phase 3 (Prerequisite complete phase 2)
Phase 4 (Prerequisite complete phase 3)
Below is a chart on Periodization which is important as mile races are either summer road or indoor\outdoor (seasonal) for track
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
Hi all!
Thanks for the continued advice. I have read every single post and appreciate the help. Just finished my first week of training and well... did not start off as well as I expected. It took me my fourth run of the week (1.75 miles) to break a 10 minute mile and finish with an overall pace under 11 minutes per mile. I really don't remember ever being this slow or out of shape and it is very disappointing. I think some of the reason my times were slow was being sore after my first run and running courses that had lots of elevation gain but mostly I am way more out of shape than I thought and my diet has been absolute trash. So hopefully after logging more miles and eating better I will get better results this week.
I do have a few questions though after this week of training. I use a fitbit to track my runs and I am a bit skeptical of the accuracy. The course I ran recently says that one lap is half of a mile but yet when I ran it my fitbit says it was 0.54 miles. I know it isn't that big of a difference but over longer runs those inaccuracies could add up. Does anyone have any experience with that happening? Are fitbits pretty accurate or should I be using a different method to track my runs? Also, last time I was running consistently I had a huge drop in my overall pace time after about a month. After doing more research on the sport I realized that could have been due to my location. I didn't realize it at the time but the college I was attending was in Flagstaff and apparently that is a hotbed for Olympic level runners because of the altitude. I went from running at an 11 minute pace to running in the 8 minute range when I moved back near sea level. Can I still expect a big drop in time like that or was that simply due to altitude? I was really banking on that drop in time to help springboard my progress but I'm worried that it only happened due to elevation.
Overweight per CDC BMI
Just finished my first week of training and well... did not start off as well as I expected. It took me my fourth run of the week (1.75 miles) to break a 10 minute mile and finish with an overall pace under 11 minutes per mile. I really don't remember ever being this slow or out of shape and it is very disappointing. I think some of the reason my times were slow was being sore after my first run
Are you going out every time trying to set a new personal record for your pace per mile? I made that mistake when I first started trying to improve my 5k times and ended up with shin splints very quickly. You need to build a running base and when people on this site are talking about their total mileage per week, the majority of their mileage is at an easy pace. Those long, easy miles are also what will cause you to lose weight the fastest.
I would personally focus on being able to run 3-4 miles consistently without having to walk before putting too much focus on setting PR's for your pace per mile. Maybe do interval sprints once per week but you need to learn the concept of the "recovery run" where you are running at an easy pace to get your blood flowing and loosen up tight muscles. Running for PR's on sore muscles is going to leave you injured and your times will suffer, as you point out in your post.
Memphis / 38 male
5k - 20:39 / 10k - 43:48 / Half - 1:34:47 / Full - 3:38:10
I've got a fever...
Exactly. You improve by increasing your miles, not your pace. And the more easy miles you run, the faster your easy pace will become (as your aerobic capacity expands). a very common mantra on this board is: Run a lot. Mostly easy. Sometimes hard.
Don't try to improve your time or set a new record each day. Focus on consistency and running most of your miles at an easy pace. You burn just as many calories per mile running slow as you do running fast, it just takes longer.
On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.
"(1) You burn about 100 calories for every mile you run. But as intensity increases, so does calorie burning—up to 10 calories per minute per mile. That may sound like a small difference, but it adds up."
https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20805271/lose-weight-with-help/
You burn just as many calories per mile running slow as you do running fast, it just takes longer.
"(1) You burn about 100 calories for every mile you run. But as intensity increases, so does calorie burning—up to 10 calories per minute per mile. That may sound like a small difference, but it adds up." https://www.runnersworld.com/nutrition-weight-loss/a20805271/lose-weight-with-help/
I can definitely attest to this. I'm hungrier after tempo runs than easy runs. The after-burn is real from a jacked metabolism.
Personal Records:
5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)
10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021
8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021
Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020
We are commenting here trying to keep a newbie from racing every time he goes out for a run to reduce risk of injury. If to took just a single day to race a 10k, I would certainly have a more intense workout than running 6 miles in 54 minutes. Would someone be able to run 6 miles at race pace 5 days a week for a few months straight? Very likely to get injured, especially if a new runner, and running at an easy pace is more sustainable, therefore more calories burned over time. You won't lose much weight if your foot is in a boot.
Calories burned over 6 miles would be slightly higher at the slower pace because you are spending more time on your feet with an elevated heart rate in aerobic zone. Calories per minute per mile would only be relevant if we were talking a pace of 7 min per mile compared to 14 min per mile (close to walking). Not much time added to your total workout at 8-9 min than 7 min per mile but the easy pace is more sustainable over several days per week and slightly higher calories per mile.
That 100 Cal / mile rule of thumb is only accurate if you weight about 135 lb.
Calories per mile is roughly 0.755*(weight in pounds). Try this calculator. Keep weight and distance constant and vary the pace. Calories per mile will not change, but calories per minute does.
https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20801301/calories-burned-running-calculator/
It's a physics problem. Moving a given mass a given distance. Other than what efficiency contributes, speed doesn't matter, at least not significantly. Again, that's per mile, not per min.
And yes, if you run harder, there is carry-over burning with the higher metabolism. But my point is that this guy (and anyone else) will burn roughly the same number of calories give-or-take a small percentage whether it's slow or faster running. And too much fast running and/or trying to set a PR every training run is a no-no, especially for a newbie.
Ditch the fitbit and get a real running watch, like a Garmin or Polar.
I have the Polar M430 and it works great.
The power (energy/time) required to overcome air resistance is proportional to the cube of velocity (power required is the dot product of velocity and force, force due to air resistance is proportional to velocity squared at person-type Reynolds numbers). Trust me on this.
I can walk easily at 3 miles per hour. Some portion of the calories burned are for overcoming the air resistance associated with moving through the air at 3mph. I can run a mile at 9 miles per hour without great effort (humble brag, but necessary because it's not anaerobic or otherwise inefficient for me). This is 3x the velocity and therefore 27x the power required to overcome air resistance. Power is energy/time and it takes 1/3 the time so the energy required to overcome air resistance is 9x.
Even if only one calorie of the original mile is for overcoming air resistance, that calorie has become 9, which means that if I burn 113 calories/mile walking (using the formula below), shouldn't I burn 122 calories/mile running at 9mph, which is still an 8% increase? The increase is substantially higher the more of the original calorie burn is assumed to be for air resistance (e.g. two calories at 3mph result in a 14% increase at 9 mph).
I bet the calorie burn is about the same on a treadmill with constant air resistance which is probably the conditions that were used to come up with these rules.
That 100 Cal / mile rule of thumb is only accurate if you weight about 135 lb. Calories per mile is roughly 0.755*(weight in pounds). Try this calculator. Keep weight and distance constant and vary the pace. Calories per mile will not change, but calories per minute does. https://www.runnersworld.com/training/a20801301/calories-burned-running-calculator/ It's a physics problem. Moving a given mass a given distance. Other than what efficiency contributes, speed doesn't matter, at least not significantly. Again, that's per mile, not per min. And yes, if you run harder, there is carry-over burning with the higher metabolism. But my point is that this guy (and anyone else) will burn roughly the same number of calories give-or-take a small percentage whether it's slow or faster running. And too much fast running and/or trying to set a PR every training run is a no-no, especially for a newbie.
#artbydmcbride
.... I bet the calorie burn is about the same on a treadmill with constant air resistance which is probably the conditions that were used to come up with these rules.
....
So I can burn more calories running into the wind (or have a strong fan on me at the treadmill?) Sweet!
Runners run
link spam
Hey! This made me think of a cheat!
Get a super strong fan to put behind your treadmill so you can get a tailwind for TM PRs!
3 months til Masters
Checking in, how is the training going so far? Was looking at your log and didn't see updates. Hope you are still going at it. Regardless of if you get to sub-4. Running and getting in shape is a good thing. I've been there myself going from couch to back in shape. Hoping you are are well!!
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k